Whirlpool's new dishwasher motors

[Chetlaham]

Even worse, many of these motors have electronics in them that govern the direction of rotation or some other rogue purpose. 

 

To me a good 3450 rpm dishwasher motor has two sets of windings- one 180* from each other, another identical set (gauge and turns) rotated 90* from the first set, a juicy AC capacitor in parallel, temp and current sensing klixon, across the line starting, squirrel cage rotor, double ball bearings, cooling fan and deflection shield. Generous overload capability and good volt/hert saturation ratio.    

 

Of course, the motors I have in mind are 1/3 HP to 1 HP. None of that tiny wet rotor stuff.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

Speed Queen Dishwashers

If Speed Queen Dishwashers were made, we wouldn't be seeing many of these issues today. It's a shame that even GE dishwashers use wet magnetic motors in them. I think Speed Queen Home will have a shot at the dishwasher market.

 

[Chetlaham]

I remember at one point GE was using brushed motors in their DW. Yes, brushes. Not sure if that is still the case but it would never have flown in my world. 

 

If Speed Queen made dishwashers the bearing would last and the main pump seals would have received the same treatment the Raytheon/Goodman washer seals received. They would be engineered not to fail and to last a minimum of 20,000 hours.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

GE dishwashers!

My dad's uses a wet magnetic rotor motor which is so stupid. What if it burns out? This is why Speed Queen needs to jump into the dishwasher market. This is why! I bet their main wash would take up the entire center of the dishwasher, with a smaller yet powerful drain pump off in a corner somewhere. And yes, Speed Queen will never cavitate, even if it means nearly covering the spray arms which could create a huge wall of water in their dishwashers.

 

[combo52]

Reply number 60

Chet, what happened to those self oiling GE shaded pole motors as being the best motor for a dishwasher boy that went out the window fast, lol

John L

 

[Chetlaham]

Best dishwasher motor ever made to date longevity wise. 

 

GE would fall to second place once someone mimics the power clean filter module with a self lubricating 1/2HP PSC motor of the same engineering quality.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

Shame on GE!

Shame on GE for such stupid wet magnetic motors! I bet they're Chinese produced and won't last long. Dear Speed Queen Home, get with the program and start making no nonsense dishwashers! Both the wash and drain pump on my dad's GE sound like drain pumps. How the heck can you recirculate water with that kind of pump? And yes, the arms alternate. I have to question not if the motor will burn out, but when.[this post was last edited: 2/8/2025-11:45]

 

[DADoES]

 
Jerome, my dishwasher has two wet-rotor motors.  They're 21.5 years, no failures.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

to dadoes...

Yours may be fine. As for Whirlpool, the types of pumps that they use are totally unacceptable. You're trying to shoot dishes with water which many of them fail to do. It sounds more like a gentle stream, or the dishwasher is playing with the dishes. Speed Queen wouldn't mess around with the dishes whatsoever if they decided to build dishwashers, like they should. More and more consumers are catching on like chetlaham said.

 

[combo52]

All Bosch dishwashers

Use a wet motor the entire assembly, including the heater only weighs 1 pound, it is true that whirlpool's cheap dishwashers use wet motors their premium dishwashers use large 1/5 hp 3450 RPM motors with real sealed ball bearings at both ends, they weigh 5 pounds. I'll have to post some pictures. I was doing a comparison in a while ago.

The wet motor design that Fisher and Paycal used is a much better design because you can just lift the entire rotor assembly out without any tools and replace it. We still carry those on our trucks because they do go bad but it's a far cry from having to take the whole machine apart, replace the whole motor assembly.

John L

 

[gelaundry4ever]

whirlpool 3450 rpm motors

I thought Whirlpool never used 3450 rpm motors in their own brands, just the Maytag and kitchenaid lines.

 

[Chetlaham]

Can't the powercleans be replaced without removing the dishwasher from the cabinet and with only a basic Lenox screw driver?

 

 

Remover the drain hose, unscrew the check, disconnect the molex and the ground wire, unscrew the sound ball, rotate the plastic tabs in and life out the mech. Reverse for re-install.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

chetlaham

It would be nice if they did. I think the last time Whirlpool used 3450 motors was in their point voyager line.

 

[Chetlaham]

IIRC most Whirlpool DW motors are 3450-3600 RPM. That is the synchronous speed of a single phase 60Hz motor with two main poles. 4 poles gives a max of 1800 rpm, 6 poles a max of 1200 rpm, 8 poles a max of 900 rpm, ect. 

 

 

 I use the word synchronous, because unlike a synchronous type motor, an induction motor's speed will always be slightly less than the line frequency. This should not matter however, it can be taken into account through engineering the impeller to compensate for the slight speed reduction.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

line frequency motors

I didn't know Whirlpool used line frequency motors. I thought they used wet magnetic motors unlike their kitchenaid and maytag lines.

 

[Chetlaham]

Wet magnet rotors can be line frequency, most modern drain pump motors are line frequency. 

 

It is inverter motors I hate the most, more that can go wrong.

 

The way I see it you already have AC power in the home, take advantage of greatest accomplishment in the history of humanity instead of bypassing it for an impracticality.  

 

[gelaundry4ever]

whirlpool wash pumps

What do you think of Whirlpool's wash pumps on their own 3 rack dishwashers? Honestly, I think it's a cheap imitation of their drain pumps. I bet they use the global wash system instead of their point voyager design or a hybrid like on kitchenaid and maytag.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

If speed queen made dishwashers... I don't think we would be seeing this on their machines. Just when I when the pumps couldn't get tinier they have.

Im going to be honest, consumers are catching on. I hear more complaints in stores about how long the new machines take to finish. One lady put it well "I just want a dishwasher like my old one", when the sales guy said she would have to clean the filter at the bottom of the thing.

It still happens today, maybe even worse.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

Wet magnet rotors can be line frequency, most modern drain pump motors are line frequency.



It is inverter motors I hate the most, more that can go wrong.



The way I see it you already have AC power in the home, take advantage of greatest accomplishment in the history of humanity instead of bypassing it for an impracticality.

Shameful that inverter pumps are being used on some models.

 

[phillymatt53]

Hi All....
I browsed through this thread, and it's many opinions and complaints.
It's a damn shame how the evolution of these products has slid downhill over the years.
And the poor customers have to deal with all that cheapening.

The crappy motors used in these machines, I'm well familier with.
All for some insane claim of "improved" or "efficient".
Yeah, right!

My ole KDC-19's single motor is rated for 1/2 horsepower as I have heard, and doesn't even stress over a load of dishes.
None of that weak anemic crap for me!

People these days are led to believe things that they've been trained to believe...
That watering-down of a new product is better than decades ago.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

Hi All....
I browsed through this thread, and it's many opinions and complaints.
It's a damn shame how the evolution of these products has slid downhill over the years.
And the poor customers have to deal with all that cheapening.

The crappy motors used in these machines, I'm well familier with.
All for some insane claim of "improved" or "efficient".
Yeah, right!

My ole KDC-19's single motor is rated for 1/2 horsepower as I have heard, and doesn't even stress over a load of dishes.
None of that weak anemic crap for me!

People these days are led to believe things that they've been trained to believe...
That watering-down of a new product is better than decades ago.

That's my beef with these things. When the point voyager came out, they kept the real recirculation wash motor. I hate when manufacturers do that stupid crap. My biggest concern is that it would only get worse. We already saw what GE did. Whirlpool is still doing it.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

Hi All....
I browsed through this thread, and it's many opinions and complaints.
It's a damn shame how the evolution of these products has slid downhill over the years.
And the poor customers have to deal with all that cheapening.

The crappy motors used in these machines, I'm well familier with.
All for some insane claim of "improved" or "efficient".
Yeah, right!

My ole KDC-19's single motor is rated for 1/2 horsepower as I have heard, and doesn't even stress over a load of dishes.
None of that weak anemic crap for me!

People these days are led to believe things that they've been trained to believe...
That watering-down of a new product is better than decades ago.

I wish I could say it could get better, but they're getting worse. I suspect all Whirlpool dishwashers use these puny and weak pumps. Don't even try to wash a load you just had blueberry pancakes, shrimp alfredo casserole, or cheese enchiladas in a day, let alone a week. Not even Cascade or Finish products at their highest end could get them clean in these dishwashers. It takes a pot scrubber, jet clean, or power clean to clean these types of loads.

 

[johnb300m]

I wish I could say it could get better, but they're getting worse. I suspect all Whirlpool dishwashers use these puny and weak pumps. Don't even try to wash a load you just had blueberry pancakes, shrimp alfredo casserole, or cheese enchiladas in a day, let alone a week. Not even Cascade or Finish products at their highest end could get them clean in these dishwashers. It takes a pot scrubber, jet clean, or power clean to clean these types of loads.

You really have a reading comprehension problem.
It's been said for years now, that only some Whirlpool and KitchenAid models use the wet rotor, sub-100watt motors.
But many other lines use the capacitor induction motor.
But you just won't listen.....sigh.....

And all those goofy meals you rattled off, I've washed those cookware items in my modern machines, and some worse, and they all come out clean.
But not that my first hand experience matters to your narrative.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

You really have a reading comprehension problem.
It's been said for years now, that only some Whirlpool and KitchenAid models use the wet rotor, sub-100watt motors.
But many other lines use the capacitor induction motor.
But you just won't listen.....sigh.....

And all those goofy meals you rattled off, I've washed those cookware items in my modern machines, and some worse, and they all come out clean.
But not that my first hand experience matters to your narrative.

No, I don't. I've used these dishwashers before. A real motor and pump would've blasted the dishes clean like it had taken paint off of a Ford building. You need pressure to clean dishes.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

Hi All....
I browsed through this thread, and it's many opinions and complaints.
It's a damn shame how the evolution of these products has slid downhill over the years.
And the poor customers have to deal with all that cheapening.

The crappy motors used in these machines, I'm well familier with.
All for some insane claim of "improved" or "efficient".
Yeah, right!

My ole KDC-19's single motor is rated for 1/2 horsepower as I have heard, and doesn't even stress over a load of dishes.
None of that weak anemic crap for me!

People these days are led to believe things that they've been trained to believe...
That watering-down of a new product is better than decades ago.

Somebody needs to educate this clown johnb300m. I know what I am saying about these dishwashers. My wash pump just went out in July. If this dishwasher had a real motor, the fan would've cooled it.

 

[johnb300m]

Somebody needs to educate this clown johnb300m. I know what I am saying about these dishwashers. My wash pump just went out in July. If this dishwasher had a real motor, the fan would've cooled it.

Yes, yes, educate me, the clown .
I've been playing with and fixing dishwashers before you were even born, Jerome.
I've worked in mechanical engineering for 15yrs, at various Fortune 500 companies.
You've probably had my products in your home.
But yeah, you school "me."

 

[gelaundry4ever]

Even worse, many of these motors have electronics in them that govern the direction of rotation or some other rogue purpose.



To me a good 3450 rpm dishwasher motor has two sets of windings- one 180* from each other, another identical set (gauge and turns) rotated 90* from the first set, a juicy AC capacitor in parallel, temp and current sensing klixon, across the line starting, squirrel cage rotor, double ball bearings, cooling fan and deflection shield. Generous overload capability and good volt/hert saturation ratio.



Of course, the motors I have in mind are 1/3 HP to 1 HP. None of that tiny wet rotor stuff.

I wish these new dishwashers still have 3450 rpm motors in them.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

Even worse, many of these motors have electronics in them that govern the direction of rotation or some other rogue purpose.



To me a good 3450 rpm dishwasher motor has two sets of windings- one 180* from each other, another identical set (gauge and turns) rotated 90* from the first set, a juicy AC capacitor in parallel, temp and current sensing klixon, across the line starting, squirrel cage rotor, double ball bearings, cooling fan and deflection shield. Generous overload capability and good volt/hert saturation ratio.



Of course, the motors I have in mind are 1/3 HP to 1 HP. None of that tiny wet rotor stuff.

I have a post regarding the updated motors, and to my dismay they're still the same, if not worse.

 

[phillymatt53]

I wish these new dishwashers still have 3450 rpm motors in them.

They likely put in high-speed small (weak) motors with small impellers - not my idea of a thunderstorm, more like a gentle shower.
Screw that!

 

[pstehle]

Reply number 60

Chet, what happened to those self oiling GE shaded pole motors as being the best motor for a dishwasher boy that went out the window fast, lol

John L

If I had a buck for every one I only had to spin the fan to break loose the seal on ones people let sit for a few months...