DW - Propeller vs Spray Arm ( pump) ?
- Thread starter washer-br
- Start date
Help Support :
mrcleanjeans
New member
they canned the
the first DW to use the spray-arm was the KitchenAid in 1949.ALL other machines were impeller.The second was in 1950, the American DW,not to be confused with the American Kitchens machine.This was a small, privately owned company that went as quickly as it came. About that time was the Younstown Kitchens Jet-Tower machine with a vertical whirling spin-spray tube , top-loading, with dishes arranged in a circular fashion.Then, in about 1954, Frigidaire came out with a horizontal spin-tube between the racks.A few years later, Youngstown copied that set-up.In 1955, Waste King came out with a 58-jet spray arm,and in 1958, Hotpoint followed suit,but added a power turret, calling it Double-Deck action. In 1959, RCA Whirlpool came out with their version,which,cleaning wise completely blew everyone else off the map,much because of an excellent cycle design. In the early 1960s, WK went to two full-size wash arms, and in 1962, GE went to spray arm and power tower system. The few impeller machines that were left, combined the impeller with an upper, small spray tube to spin a top rack over it. But 1965 was the year that everyone went to the spray arm design,because, overall, it was better.
the first DW to use the spray-arm was the KitchenAid in 1949.ALL other machines were impeller.The second was in 1950, the American DW,not to be confused with the American Kitchens machine.This was a small, privately owned company that went as quickly as it came. About that time was the Younstown Kitchens Jet-Tower machine with a vertical whirling spin-spray tube , top-loading, with dishes arranged in a circular fashion.Then, in about 1954, Frigidaire came out with a horizontal spin-tube between the racks.A few years later, Youngstown copied that set-up.In 1955, Waste King came out with a 58-jet spray arm,and in 1958, Hotpoint followed suit,but added a power turret, calling it Double-Deck action. In 1959, RCA Whirlpool came out with their version,which,cleaning wise completely blew everyone else off the map,much because of an excellent cycle design. In the early 1960s, WK went to two full-size wash arms, and in 1962, GE went to spray arm and power tower system. The few impeller machines that were left, combined the impeller with an upper, small spray tube to spin a top rack over it. But 1965 was the year that everyone went to the spray arm design,because, overall, it was better.
mrcleanjeans
New member
P.S. The red overhead cut off . It said "they canned the fan,man"
Can you explain what you mean by an excellent cycle design for the WP?
mrcleanjeans
New member
most DWs at the time that the RCA Whirlpool came out had a puny 5 min.wash,then two 1-min.rinses, as a typical example. That machine,however,had a prerinse,THEN the 1st wash,another rinse,a 2nd wash that was about 16 minutes long, two rinses,then the dry cycle. The spray arm's jets were inverted, just like KitchenAid's later to come 4-way HydroSweep wash arm,and there was a very good stainless steel filter that resembles a typical european machine of today,like the Bosch.I had one of those WPs,and it cleaned exceedingly well.
I'm amazed at how comparitively short the cycles were on dishwashers from the 50's, 60's and even the early 70's. Many machines' normal cycles push the 2-hour envelope these days. Given that, today's dishwashers have no excuse not to clean better than their vintage counterparts, whose cycles were barely a third as long.
I use the 50-minute Speed Clean cycle almost all the time on my new Frigidaire. Consumer Reports didn't have anything good to say about it, but I find it does a great job of cleaning a full load. (They tested the model below mine, and I think it's called the Turbo Boost cycle on that machine.) I have very soft water, so that may make a difference, and I don't let the load sit overnight before washing, as they do in their tests.
We had a Westinghouse built-in when I was a kid. In fact, I believe it was installed the year I was born (1959). I think the whole unit pulled out and it was loaded from the top. I don't have as many vivid memories about our dishwasher as I do our washing machine---probably because I could look into the washer and see all the action.
I use the 50-minute Speed Clean cycle almost all the time on my new Frigidaire. Consumer Reports didn't have anything good to say about it, but I find it does a great job of cleaning a full load. (They tested the model below mine, and I think it's called the Turbo Boost cycle on that machine.) I have very soft water, so that may make a difference, and I don't let the load sit overnight before washing, as they do in their tests.
We had a Westinghouse built-in when I was a kid. In fact, I believe it was installed the year I was born (1959). I think the whole unit pulled out and it was loaded from the top. I don't have as many vivid memories about our dishwasher as I do our washing machine---probably because I could look into the washer and see all the action.
RCA Whirlpool Dishwashers.
I remember a relative had an RCA Whirlpool DW in her house she bought in 68/69. The timer dial was on the right side, and looked exactly like a telephone dial (hook to stop the finger and all.) Like a phone, you stuck your finger in the hole that corresponded to the cycle you wanted and "Dialed it" clockwise till the finger-stop stopped you. It then rotated backwards partially like a phone. The tub was blue, and perhaps like the GE "Perma-tuff" was made of a plastic coating over something (maybe metal)
I dont remember the spray arm system (alas, they WERE spray arms), but I do rememer a rectagular stainless steel fine filter in the bottom that fed into a courser filter. It was a removable-to-clean cup/glass trap. [Looks like a present-day BOSCH] This area was to the (right?) side of the machine and the rectangular heating element surrounded it. The steam vent was upper left of the door as one looks at it, similar to a modern Whirlpool.
The detergent cup had TWO closed square cups and the opening of it was done by a round thingy, like a wine cork with two metal ....Ida know.... hooks? It turned one way and the prewash cup opened, then later the other way to open the second cup. (Kitchen Aid had two closed cups for a while too, I think) The silverware baskets ran from all-the-way left to right in the center of the lower dish rack. this left room for deep stuff (bowls) in the front and rear.
The machine started by draining (HELLO TODAYS ENGINEERS!!!)then there was also a "purge" in the beginning to rid the lines of cold water. The fill solenoid vale and the drain were open simulataneously for a few second at first. (Safe to do when the first phase was a rinse, and the detergent was "hiden" in a closed cup)
Like a GE and also like a Kitchen Aid (when it was by Hobart, and definitely before it was Whirlpool..)the motor ran continuously 'till the "dry" segment and the water and fill valves opened and closed as needed.
And just to be totally cool it did not have a latch like GE or D&M, but rather a "U" shaped handle with three sides and two 90 degree angles. UP to open, DOWN to lock. It doubled as a towel rack!!
Ah... memory lane!
I remember a relative had an RCA Whirlpool DW in her house she bought in 68/69. The timer dial was on the right side, and looked exactly like a telephone dial (hook to stop the finger and all.) Like a phone, you stuck your finger in the hole that corresponded to the cycle you wanted and "Dialed it" clockwise till the finger-stop stopped you. It then rotated backwards partially like a phone. The tub was blue, and perhaps like the GE "Perma-tuff" was made of a plastic coating over something (maybe metal)
I dont remember the spray arm system (alas, they WERE spray arms), but I do rememer a rectagular stainless steel fine filter in the bottom that fed into a courser filter. It was a removable-to-clean cup/glass trap. [Looks like a present-day BOSCH] This area was to the (right?) side of the machine and the rectangular heating element surrounded it. The steam vent was upper left of the door as one looks at it, similar to a modern Whirlpool.
The detergent cup had TWO closed square cups and the opening of it was done by a round thingy, like a wine cork with two metal ....Ida know.... hooks? It turned one way and the prewash cup opened, then later the other way to open the second cup. (Kitchen Aid had two closed cups for a while too, I think) The silverware baskets ran from all-the-way left to right in the center of the lower dish rack. this left room for deep stuff (bowls) in the front and rear.
The machine started by draining (HELLO TODAYS ENGINEERS!!!)then there was also a "purge" in the beginning to rid the lines of cold water. The fill solenoid vale and the drain were open simulataneously for a few second at first. (Safe to do when the first phase was a rinse, and the detergent was "hiden" in a closed cup)
Like a GE and also like a Kitchen Aid (when it was by Hobart, and definitely before it was Whirlpool..)the motor ran continuously 'till the "dry" segment and the water and fill valves opened and closed as needed.
And just to be totally cool it did not have a latch like GE or D&M, but rather a "U" shaped handle with three sides and two 90 degree angles. UP to open, DOWN to lock. It doubled as a towel rack!!
Ah... memory lane!
mrcleanjeans
New member
I had the portable,top-loading version ,model F-50,of the model you described.Yes,it was a blue,vinyl coated tub, a single plastic black spray arm that looked just like a piccalo, it did not stop,then drain,but would reciculate while draining so the food particles would get sprayed off and be drained without a chance of getting back on the dishes.
It would keep the motor running like you said so the fills would whoosh bit by bit till the full-powered oomph kicked in,i.e. the complete fill.Was a VERY loud DW,sounded like tidal waves in the kitchen,but worked wonderfully.
It would keep the motor running like you said so the fills would whoosh bit by bit till the full-powered oomph kicked in,i.e. the complete fill.Was a VERY loud DW,sounded like tidal waves in the kitchen,but worked wonderfully.
Fills would whoosh
YES! Now I recall why the sounds were so interesting to me... @ the time I was 5 or 6 years of age!!! and the only reference point I had was Mom's Sears Kenmore (D&M) that had motor pauses between phases, (it paused to change the direction of the motor... one way to recirculate, the other way to pump out and drain.)
I was surprised with my portable WP dishwasher (bought in '90/91) that had pauses between phases, but also started recirculating the water before the fill was complete.. a hybrid!
I am really surprised, though, that now with computer chips there is NO CREATIVITY /THOUGHT given to what can now be done.
For example, have certain programmable, but fixed options (that stay in emmory) and everyday choosable options. Here is what I mean.
Have an option to have a metered fill, rather than a timed fill. (there are floats already in machines!!!!)People with low water pressure will benefit from being able to have a machine or get decent results from their machine. (and "time" these fills overall for flood protection)
Have a selectable 2nd rinse.. like on a clothing washer. Since Uncle Sam ("US govt." for our international friends' benefit) tests machines based on their "Normal" cycle. This will make their machine show a better effeciency.
Also default to a cool dry (non-heated dry) and give us a 0,5,10,15 minute dry option.
Add a neon light advising when to add bleach. (the rinse between the washes comes to mind)to be able to sanitize without running for hours and hours using heat. Great if someone is ill. [IMHO one of the original "purposes" and appeals of a machine was to prevent cross-contamination with young children.] This is ideal too because kiddie loads tend to have alot of plastic items that may not like heat.
Add a glass-ware cycle..... drain first... wash and rinse. Great for cocktail parties or even (for the total "Mrs. Van de Kamp's" out there)... to prepare for a cocktail party by giving your seldom used stuff a spiff-up.
Add a "purge" programmable option if water heater is far from DW... to get the cold water out of the lines before starting.
Or better yet have 2 closed detergent cups and do three really quick soap-less prewashes to get rid of the cold water. Why waste it? Then move into a regular cycle.
Oh,and how about a "QUICK" wash for compulsive pre-rinsers and for during a party.
Etc.
YES! Now I recall why the sounds were so interesting to me... @ the time I was 5 or 6 years of age!!! and the only reference point I had was Mom's Sears Kenmore (D&M) that had motor pauses between phases, (it paused to change the direction of the motor... one way to recirculate, the other way to pump out and drain.)
I was surprised with my portable WP dishwasher (bought in '90/91) that had pauses between phases, but also started recirculating the water before the fill was complete.. a hybrid!
I am really surprised, though, that now with computer chips there is NO CREATIVITY /THOUGHT given to what can now be done.
For example, have certain programmable, but fixed options (that stay in emmory) and everyday choosable options. Here is what I mean.
Have an option to have a metered fill, rather than a timed fill. (there are floats already in machines!!!!)People with low water pressure will benefit from being able to have a machine or get decent results from their machine. (and "time" these fills overall for flood protection)
Have a selectable 2nd rinse.. like on a clothing washer. Since Uncle Sam ("US govt." for our international friends' benefit) tests machines based on their "Normal" cycle. This will make their machine show a better effeciency.
Also default to a cool dry (non-heated dry) and give us a 0,5,10,15 minute dry option.
Add a neon light advising when to add bleach. (the rinse between the washes comes to mind)to be able to sanitize without running for hours and hours using heat. Great if someone is ill. [IMHO one of the original "purposes" and appeals of a machine was to prevent cross-contamination with young children.] This is ideal too because kiddie loads tend to have alot of plastic items that may not like heat.
Add a glass-ware cycle..... drain first... wash and rinse. Great for cocktail parties or even (for the total "Mrs. Van de Kamp's" out there)... to prepare for a cocktail party by giving your seldom used stuff a spiff-up.
Add a "purge" programmable option if water heater is far from DW... to get the cold water out of the lines before starting.
Or better yet have 2 closed detergent cups and do three really quick soap-less prewashes to get rid of the cold water. Why waste it? Then move into a regular cycle.
Oh,and how about a "QUICK" wash for compulsive pre-rinsers and for during a party.
Etc.
European DW cycle
Hi,
Just wondering if this cycle is the same as a US machine?
Drain pump starts to remove any liquid that has spilled into the machine.
Prewash : 6 mins cold water no detergent to remove large solids.
Mainwash: (long and hot with detergent)
Rinse: (cool aproximately 6 mins)
Rinse: (hot - rinse aid dosed into the water to reduce surface tension and make dishes shinier)
Dry: the dishes dry themselves using residual heat and come out too hot to touch.
The machine may also do some odd extra to the cycle when it's regenerating the ion exchange filter that removes limescale. (on all european dishwashers). This filter's regenerated by flushing it with salty water. There's a large salt container in the bottom of the machine that's filled (aprox. once ever few months) with larger crystal dishwasher salt (same as table salt, just with very large crystals)
It's a much more environmentally friendly way of softening water. I have no idea why washing machines don't do this too!
Hi,
Just wondering if this cycle is the same as a US machine?
Drain pump starts to remove any liquid that has spilled into the machine.
Prewash : 6 mins cold water no detergent to remove large solids.
Mainwash: (long and hot with detergent)
Rinse: (cool aproximately 6 mins)
Rinse: (hot - rinse aid dosed into the water to reduce surface tension and make dishes shinier)
Dry: the dishes dry themselves using residual heat and come out too hot to touch.
The machine may also do some odd extra to the cycle when it's regenerating the ion exchange filter that removes limescale. (on all european dishwashers). This filter's regenerated by flushing it with salty water. There's a large salt container in the bottom of the machine that's filled (aprox. once ever few months) with larger crystal dishwasher salt (same as table salt, just with very large crystals)
It's a much more environmentally friendly way of softening water. I have no idea why washing machines don't do this too!
Sounds similar to some of ours, as well as Euro imports, but our machines are connected to hot water rather than cold because our usual kitchens only have 120 volt electrical connection rather than 220 or 240 volt.
kenmore1978
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2004
- Messages
- 2,119
Creativity
"Have an option to have a metered fill, rather than a timed fill. (there are floats already in machines!!!!)People with low water pressure will benefit from being able to have a machine or get decent results from their machine. (and "time" these fills overall for flood protection)"
If a machine has a metered fill, why would there ever be a need for a timed fill?
"I was surprised with my portable WP dishwasher (bought in '90/91) that had pauses between phases, but also started recirculating the water before the fill was complete.. a hybrid!"
That depends on water pressure on a timed fill machine. My KM machine would start the recirculate phase simultaneously with shutting off the water valve BUT, sometimes the water would get shut off by the overflow float before the fill time had elapsed. Then there would be a pause while the timer advanced to the motor starting/valve shutting phase. It also had a short drain phase before it started the fill and after the end of the dry cycle. My WP, starts the fill immeidately upon starting, and the fill phase continues after the motor starts the recirculate phase.
A friend has an Asko DW that let's you program different fill and drain times.
"For example, have certain programmable, but fixed options (that stay in emmory) and everyday choosable options.
The WP SORTA has this, in that it remembers the last cycle used and the options chosen, and just pressing START begins that cycle.
"Oh,and how about a "QUICK" wash for compulsive pre-rinsers and for during a party."
Sounds like the old "Rinse & Hold" cycle, which seems to have gone by the wayside on new machines. My WP has a "Low Energy" cycle (1 wash and 2 rinses) that I've used for stuff that wasn't really "dirty"
"Have an option to have a metered fill, rather than a timed fill. (there are floats already in machines!!!!)People with low water pressure will benefit from being able to have a machine or get decent results from their machine. (and "time" these fills overall for flood protection)"
If a machine has a metered fill, why would there ever be a need for a timed fill?
"I was surprised with my portable WP dishwasher (bought in '90/91) that had pauses between phases, but also started recirculating the water before the fill was complete.. a hybrid!"
That depends on water pressure on a timed fill machine. My KM machine would start the recirculate phase simultaneously with shutting off the water valve BUT, sometimes the water would get shut off by the overflow float before the fill time had elapsed. Then there would be a pause while the timer advanced to the motor starting/valve shutting phase. It also had a short drain phase before it started the fill and after the end of the dry cycle. My WP, starts the fill immeidately upon starting, and the fill phase continues after the motor starts the recirculate phase.
A friend has an Asko DW that let's you program different fill and drain times.
"For example, have certain programmable, but fixed options (that stay in emmory) and everyday choosable options.
The WP SORTA has this, in that it remembers the last cycle used and the options chosen, and just pressing START begins that cycle.
"Oh,and how about a "QUICK" wash for compulsive pre-rinsers and for during a party."
Sounds like the old "Rinse & Hold" cycle, which seems to have gone by the wayside on new machines. My WP has a "Low Energy" cycle (1 wash and 2 rinses) that I've used for stuff that wasn't really "dirty"
kenmore1978
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2004
- Messages
- 2,119
Drain pump starts to remove any liquid that has spilled into the machine.
Some machines may do this now or in the past
Prewash : 6 mins cold water no detergent to remove large solids.
Our machines always use hot water. *I* always put some detergent in this part in this pre-wash.
Mainwash: (long and hot with detergent)
Most machines use the heater to maintain the water temp and may have an option to delay the timer until a certain temperature is reached. Also, some machines had the delay in all phases, some only in the last rinse.
Rinse: (cool aproximately 6 mins)
Again, always hot.
Rinse: (hot - rinse aid dosed into the water to reduce surface tension and make dishes shinier)
The same here
Dry: the dishes dry themselves using residual heat and come out too hot to touch.
Heater used to dry dishes UNLESS "Energy" or Power Saver" option is used. As mentioned earlier, it would be a good idea to make the energy saving option the default.
Some machines may do this now or in the past
Prewash : 6 mins cold water no detergent to remove large solids.
Our machines always use hot water. *I* always put some detergent in this part in this pre-wash.
Mainwash: (long and hot with detergent)
Most machines use the heater to maintain the water temp and may have an option to delay the timer until a certain temperature is reached. Also, some machines had the delay in all phases, some only in the last rinse.
Rinse: (cool aproximately 6 mins)
Again, always hot.
Rinse: (hot - rinse aid dosed into the water to reduce surface tension and make dishes shinier)
The same here
Dry: the dishes dry themselves using residual heat and come out too hot to touch.
Heater used to dry dishes UNLESS "Energy" or Power Saver" option is used. As mentioned earlier, it would be a good idea to make the energy saving option the default.
Our AEG dishwasher does the following on the standard Automatic cycle:
Starts 5 seconds after programme button has been pressed
Drains for a min or so
Fills, without circulating, for about 10 secs
Still filling, starts recirculation pump at slow speed
Towards the end of the fill, recirculation pump boosted to fast speed, here a "surge" of water, with the "surges" getting closer together until its one continuous noise.
Filling stops.
Cold pre-rinse (approx 10 mins).
If the automatic sensor senses water is dirty, drains the water, refills with fresh and does the same filling action. Will release detergent as soon as water stops entering machine.
If the automatic sensor senses water is relatively clean and light soiled, it will keep the same water and just release the detergent there and then.
Water is heated to 50 or 65 degrees (depending how soiled the dishes are). Once heat is reached, it maintains the temperature for 30 minutes.
Cool-down cycle - drains a little bit of water, refills with cold, recirculates, drains a little bit of water, refill with cold, recirculates, drains, fills, recirculates, drains, fill, recirculates, drains completely (this takes about 3 mins in total).
Fill. Cold rinse for approx 3 mins. Drain
If water was sensed to be extremely dirty in the wash, it will do another fill, 3 min cold rinse, drain
Fill, final rinse heated up to 68*C. 68*C maintained for 10 minutes to "sanitise" (even though the dishes are contaminated again as soon as you open the door but oh well thats technology for ya
).
Drains, pauses for about a minute. Fills, no recirculation, drains again. After this drain the turbo drying fan kicks in, and residual heat from the dishes combined with the turbo drying fan dries the dishes. Fills and drains at various points during the drying cycle (to condense the steam). At the end of the cycle, the fan continues to run for 2 hours after the end of the cycle.
MrX,
I noticed you have a Zanussi dishwasher. How do you find it? We found our old one absolutely crap when it came to cleaning, and loading it was a bugger aswell.
Jon
Starts 5 seconds after programme button has been pressed
Drains for a min or so
Fills, without circulating, for about 10 secs
Still filling, starts recirculation pump at slow speed
Towards the end of the fill, recirculation pump boosted to fast speed, here a "surge" of water, with the "surges" getting closer together until its one continuous noise.
Filling stops.
Cold pre-rinse (approx 10 mins).
If the automatic sensor senses water is dirty, drains the water, refills with fresh and does the same filling action. Will release detergent as soon as water stops entering machine.
If the automatic sensor senses water is relatively clean and light soiled, it will keep the same water and just release the detergent there and then.
Water is heated to 50 or 65 degrees (depending how soiled the dishes are). Once heat is reached, it maintains the temperature for 30 minutes.
Cool-down cycle - drains a little bit of water, refills with cold, recirculates, drains a little bit of water, refill with cold, recirculates, drains, fills, recirculates, drains, fill, recirculates, drains completely (this takes about 3 mins in total).
Fill. Cold rinse for approx 3 mins. Drain
If water was sensed to be extremely dirty in the wash, it will do another fill, 3 min cold rinse, drain
Fill, final rinse heated up to 68*C. 68*C maintained for 10 minutes to "sanitise" (even though the dishes are contaminated again as soon as you open the door but oh well thats technology for ya
).Drains, pauses for about a minute. Fills, no recirculation, drains again. After this drain the turbo drying fan kicks in, and residual heat from the dishes combined with the turbo drying fan dries the dishes. Fills and drains at various points during the drying cycle (to condense the steam). At the end of the cycle, the fan continues to run for 2 hours after the end of the cycle.
MrX,
I noticed you have a Zanussi dishwasher. How do you find it? We found our old one absolutely crap when it came to cleaning, and loading it was a bugger aswell.
Jon
I don't have a Zanussi dishwasher!
Had an ariston one for years, actually despite not being all that expensive wasn't a bad machine.
Replaced it with a Bosch... reasonable machine, does a good wash. I haven't actually looked in-depth at the bosch wash cycle. The one I described above was for the Ariston.
My parents had a siemens machine that seemed to last for ever (bought around 1978) It eventually was replaced with a miele when they refitted the kitchen. It was still in perfect working order when it was thrown out.
Speaking of Zanussi, our old jetsystem washer was a total disaster of a machine. It went through 2 wash pumps in 5 years. (the wash pump recirculates the water (via a filter) and sprays it back in at the top of the drum. The scoop system is FAR more practical!
That Zanussi was replaced by a Miele and I would never look back!
Had an ariston one for years, actually despite not being all that expensive wasn't a bad machine.
Replaced it with a Bosch... reasonable machine, does a good wash. I haven't actually looked in-depth at the bosch wash cycle. The one I described above was for the Ariston.
My parents had a siemens machine that seemed to last for ever (bought around 1978) It eventually was replaced with a miele when they refitted the kitchen. It was still in perfect working order when it was thrown out.
Speaking of Zanussi, our old jetsystem washer was a total disaster of a machine. It went through 2 wash pumps in 5 years. (the wash pump recirculates the water (via a filter) and sprays it back in at the top of the drum. The scoop system is FAR more practical!
That Zanussi was replaced by a Miele and I would never look back!
Ahhhh, good to see you have a decent taste in dishwashers :-D. Bosch dishwashers seem to be the tried and trusted. We would have got one, but the AEG had far nicer racks IMO. I just have something against putting plates in the dishwasher sideways - I find it much more ergonomic having them facing forwards to the front of the machine like my current AEG, and the higher end Miele's.
OT, but my current AEG washer also has the recirculation pump, and I've found it can be a bit of a pain for sudsing, but otherwise a great idea. It's good for soaking down the clothes - when the jet kicks in after the detergent fill the whole load become saturated in literally seconds. I'll have to see how the Miele cascade performs when it is delivered next week
Out of interest, which Miele washer do you have?
Take care,
Jon
OT, but my current AEG washer also has the recirculation pump, and I've found it can be a bit of a pain for sudsing, but otherwise a great idea. It's good for soaking down the clothes - when the jet kicks in after the detergent fill the whole load become saturated in literally seconds. I'll have to see how the Miele cascade performs when it is delivered next week
Out of interest, which Miele washer do you have?
Take care,
Jon
Ion exchange water-softening
Going back to Mrx's post-
If salt water ion-exchanging water-softeners are more environmentally friendly what is the impled alternative?
sorry, I'm in (very) soft-water territory....
Going back to Mrx's post-
If salt water ion-exchanging water-softeners are more environmentally friendly what is the impled alternative?
sorry, I'm in (very) soft-water territory....
Water softener
The alternative is dishwasher powder / liquid and tablets that are completely packed with phosphates (up to 30%) and other water softening agents.
Unfortunately, in Europe, we're seeing a plethera of new "3-in-one" detergents hit the market that claim to have a "built in salt function" which, in non-marketing language, means that the detergent now has a huge dose of added and totally unnecessary phosphates.
The ion exchange method of softening the water is far better for the environment and seems to work more effectively too as the water is softened at all times during the wash, including the rinse cycles so the dishes come out far cleaner if you do live in a hardwater area!
I'm using a Bosch dishwasher with Ecover dishwasher tablets and rinse aid that are totally ecologically friendly and contain no softeners and am getting far better results than with "finish powerball tablets". I was convinced by an instore ecover promotion to give the tablets a try, and was highly sceptical as eco-friendly stuff i've used in the past tended to mean it was good for the environment but also didn't remove dirt!
However, I'm very impressed the dishes came out sparkling.
Detergent:
Ingredients: 5 – 15 %: oxygen chlorine free bleach. < 5 %: plant based non-ionic tensio-active surfactants, enzymes (guaranteed non gmo). Other ingredients: salts, silicate, citrate, polypeptides, plant based bleach activator, plant based fragrance
Rinse Aid:
Ingredients: 5 - 15 %: plant based non-ionic tensio-activ surfactants. Other ingredients: water, plant ethanol and critic acid.
For some reason the enzyme action seems to work extremely effectively on grease and I've found the results on heavily soiled items to be absolutely unbeatable and they smell really nice too.
I'm not trying to promote the company and I'm not an eco-activist but, I'm genuinely impressed.
However, I'm doing my best to avoid unnecessary water softeners when the dishwasher's quite capable of providing softwater throughout the cycle without any nasty chemicals.
The alternative is dishwasher powder / liquid and tablets that are completely packed with phosphates (up to 30%) and other water softening agents.
Unfortunately, in Europe, we're seeing a plethera of new "3-in-one" detergents hit the market that claim to have a "built in salt function" which, in non-marketing language, means that the detergent now has a huge dose of added and totally unnecessary phosphates.
The ion exchange method of softening the water is far better for the environment and seems to work more effectively too as the water is softened at all times during the wash, including the rinse cycles so the dishes come out far cleaner if you do live in a hardwater area!
I'm using a Bosch dishwasher with Ecover dishwasher tablets and rinse aid that are totally ecologically friendly and contain no softeners and am getting far better results than with "finish powerball tablets". I was convinced by an instore ecover promotion to give the tablets a try, and was highly sceptical as eco-friendly stuff i've used in the past tended to mean it was good for the environment but also didn't remove dirt!
However, I'm very impressed the dishes came out sparkling.
Detergent:
Ingredients: 5 – 15 %: oxygen chlorine free bleach. < 5 %: plant based non-ionic tensio-active surfactants, enzymes (guaranteed non gmo). Other ingredients: salts, silicate, citrate, polypeptides, plant based bleach activator, plant based fragrance
Rinse Aid:
Ingredients: 5 - 15 %: plant based non-ionic tensio-activ surfactants. Other ingredients: water, plant ethanol and critic acid.
For some reason the enzyme action seems to work extremely effectively on grease and I've found the results on heavily soiled items to be absolutely unbeatable and they smell really nice too.
I'm not trying to promote the company and I'm not an eco-activist but, I'm genuinely impressed.
However, I'm doing my best to avoid unnecessary water softeners when the dishwasher's quite capable of providing softwater throughout the cycle without any nasty chemicals.
