1962 GE Frost Guard Refrigerator

[ashaw86]

Hey guys, just bought a set of 1962 GE appliances. When the refrigerator was delivered I let it rest for a day then plugged it in. When I tried it the relay was buzzing but no start for the compressor. I tried getting another relay thinking that was the problem but same problem. This time when tapping the cold control that’s when it started buzzing and the lights inside dimmed. So I went around back quickly and the guardette was glowing orange evaporator fan was starting to spin relay was buzzing then poof nothing. In the wiring diagrams for 1958 I can’t find 1962 there’s no capacitor shown. Any ideas of how to get the refrigerator running again? Was running before moved. Thank tou

 

[turbokinetic]

Sorry to hear that this nice looking machine is not working properly.

 

If it worked before moving, it's likely that the problem is related to a moving mishap. That's good actually because it means it's likely fixable.

 

The symptoms you describe mean that the compressor motor is receiving power; but it is not actually spinning up and starting. The motor receives a serious overload of current when this happens. This causes the motor thermal protector to trip off and stop the current from flowing.

 

What relay did you replace? I would assume it's the motor start relay. Can you describe this and the part number installed? Pictures of the compressor and it's relays could be helpful.

 

Sincerely,

David

 

 

 

[Ultramatic]

 

 

What a beautiful refrigerator. Hope you get it working soon!

 

[ashaw86]

Hey David thank you for your reply. I assumed it was a moving mishap but I’m still learning refrigerators and not hearing the compressor even try to start is troubling.

I did replace the start relay thinking the problem was there. After replacing it I still have the same condition but this time no sound at all. For some reason I tapped the cold control lightly and it started buzzing again that’s when I was able to see the thermal overload glow red from the back and now nothing again. The relay part number I bought is 3ARR12 PAC315A. The first part of the part number matches the original the second doesn’t but I inspected the wiring and it has the same set up as the original. I’ll have to get the part number off the original relay.

I’ll get more photos today and post them. I thought about bypassing the thermal switch to see if I could get it to start thinking the overload may be weak and not allowing enough current to flow. But I haven’t tried that yet. Picture of the new relay below for now.

 

[turbokinetic]

That does look like a normal type of current sensitive start relay. It's hard to know comparing the numbers since I don't have a book on it. The number of wraps of wire and the thickness of the wire around the relay is very important. That sets how many amps of current are required to actuate the start winding.

 

I would compare the two relays side by side and see if the winding is similar.

 

As for bypassing the thermal overload device, do not do this. You will absolutely destroy the compressor if anything goes wrong. This could also cause a serious safety hazard. Please don't do this.

 

One thing you can do is install a hard-start device. This is a combination of a start relay and a capacitor. The capacitor increases the torque of the compressor, so if it's stuck by some small debris which was dislodged during moving, it can overcome the binding and start up. The Supco 3-in-1 are quite popular. They sell different sizes of these, based on compressor horsepower.

 

Just curious; when the refrigerator was moved, was it laid down or left upright?

 

[turbokinetic]

I just found some more info on the relays. It seems the last part of the number represents the current rating of the relay. This relay is actually made by GE and sold to many manufacturers. It could be ordered with pickup currents ranging from 2 to 30 amps. The locked rotor current of your compressor would be in the 10 amp range by my best guess. If the relay's pickup current is higher than this, it might buzz but it won't lift the plunger and close the circuit.  I'm looking for a chart showing the pickup currents for all these, based on the part number. But it seems to be they are custom ordered and proprietary.

 

[ashaw86]

As far as I can tell it was left upright the entire move. I will look up the Supco hard start device you recommend to see if that helps the problem. I believe the old relay saying 1/3hp on it. The new one does not have this printed on the label. I will compare the two more closely, but they look very similar in winding. I could not find an exact match when searching for the relay so this one was the closest I could get. I will compare more closely.

 

[turbokinetic]

Got one more post!  I found a current chart. I would compare your original relay's part number and current rating to what you have now. The one you have seems to be for a 1/4 to 1/3HP motor which may be OK but it is probably a little bit on the high side, needing more current than your motor would draw.

 

Photo credit: https://www.markssupply.ca/ASSETS/DOCUMENTS/ITEMS/EN/Blue_Box_27001_Data_Sheet.pdf

 

[ashaw86]

I did order a Supco 3 in 1 for the 1/4-1/3 horsepower compressor. I hope this helps it start. Once it is up and running should I switch back to the regular relay and thermal switch? I do see on your chart it is a step higher than I might need as far as the relay.

 

[combo52]

The 3 In One Relay 1/4-1/3 HP

Is what you need to try, if it does not work try connecting a power cord directly to the relay to power just the compressor for testing purposes [ this eliminates any chance the compressors problems are related to cabinet wiring, thermostat, timer etc. ].

The bad news about this otherwise great ref is if it still has the original compressor it is unlikely to cool properly. GE had major problems with compressors from around 1956-1964 wearing out quickly, they basically lost compression, the good news is that it is very likely that it has already been replaced. look for signs that the refrigeration lines were once cut and rebrazed, also look for a tag tied to a line near the compressor stating that the compressor was changed, this tag usually has the R-12 charge amount on it for the repaired ref.

John L.

 

[turbokinetic]

Ashwa86; glad you ordered the Supco 3-in-1. That is a great tool to get the compressor going.  It will change the startup sound of the compressor, but otherwise it can be left in the system. It contains the start relay as well as a new overload protector.

 

Combo52; that's interesting about the compressor quality issue during that period!  Our family had a fridge with a drawer freezer at the bottom. It had a hot-gas defrost system that eventually failed and caused it to require replacement. It had a reversing valve (or some other refrigerant valve) in the system to warm the evaporator when the defrost timer kicked in.

 

[ashaw86]

John thank you, I thought i had read that on here in my searches. It does look like there was a tag attached to the line with a twist tie at some point. The twist tie is still there and the line has a piercing valve installed so I do think it has been replaced before.

Before i try connecting the power directly to the relay, what is your recommended procedure of how to do this? I want to make sure i do this correctly since it’s my first time.

 

[turbokinetic]

Hi Ashaw86.  Below you will find the instructions for a Supco 3-in-1 device.  Notice it has 3 wires which connect to the compressor; and two which say "Power." 

 

Following the instructions from the Supco device to ensure the Run Start and Common are correct, place the three wires onto the compressor terminal pins.  The remaining two wires from the 3-in-1 device are the power input.  As a direct power test, you can connect a power cord (such as a lamp cord) to these two black wires. As soon as you plug the cord in, the compressor should start.

 

Note, that you want to just see if the compressor will start and run, for 15 - 30 seconds. Don't run it long like this because the condenser fan won't be running.

 

Hopefully the 3-in-1 will start the compressor. Then you can remove the temporary cord, and connect the two black "Power" wires from the 3-in-1 to the original power supply wiring that lead to the original compressor overload and relay.

 

Hope this helps!

Sincerely,

David

 

[ashaw86]

Hey David I just realized who you are! I’ve been watching your videos on YouTube for weeks now. Just learning and seeing all you get into! You’re part of the inspiration of me digging further into the refrigerators I have. Watching you work on the refrigerators has given me a lot of knowledge I hope will help me in the hobby. I have always been mechanically inclined and vintage driven. I got the Supco 3-1 today will install tomorrow and I’ll let you know.
I also have a 1956 fridgidaire Impirial cold pantry Ive struggled with for months. After the GE is finished maybe you could give me insight on that beauty too. Thank you again!

 

[turbokinetic]

Hey thanks; I'm delighted you're enjoying and learning from my videos! That's what motivates me to make them.

That Frigidaire Imperial is a great looking unit! Love the shiny trim on it and the big, fancy handle.

I have a feeling this has the Meter-Miser compressor on it. These are incredibly reliable, but the start relays not so much. What's it doing wrong?

Can't wait to hear how the GE runs with the Supco device on it!

 

[ashaw86]

Well David the Frigidaire takes hours to get to correct temperature. Then continues to run, I have not witnessed it cycle yet. I’ve replaced the thermostat and given it a charge of r12. Still getting the same results, 4 hours after turning it on it gets down to 13 on the cold plate. I left it plugged in overnight it had cycled I believe but allowed it to get too warm before cutting in. Seeing as it takes so long to get to the correct temperature I wasn’t able to stay up to listen to it.

You are correct it is the meter miser compressor. The mounts are like nothing I’ve ever seen before and they have hardened so it’s louder than it should be until I make my own new mounts. Almost too if he line for 1956 but such a confusing project.
My name is Evan by the way I keep forgetting to tell you that.

 

[ashaw86]

Ok David Supco is on, with the direct test compressor hums quickly trips the overload and I have to wait for reset. Compressor must be stuck pretty good. Anything else to try or have a bought a money pit? I try not to get discouraged.

Evan

 

[turbokinetic]

Evan, sorry this thing is becoming frustrating. That's a real bummer that it didn't start with the Supco. Just to clarify, this was a full 3-in-1 with a large round capacitor in it? Not a relay-overload without cap?

I think at this time, you might want to measure resistance at the compressor motor terminals. Be sure the motor isn't open-circuit. That would not make sense, considering this was a running unit that got moved and now isn't running. But you have to check, to be sure.

Assuming the motor is not open circuit; there is one more last-ditch effort to try to get it going. Hit it with 240V. You'll have to build a rig with a 240V cord and a switch. The switch is important so that you can quickly give it a "burst" of power, to make the motor spin up, without leaving the power on too long and causing a burnout. You'll want to hit the motor with 240V for about 1/2 second, then wait about 2 or 3 minutes before trying again.

This has freed up a few for me. After you've spun it up on 240V, switch back to 120 and allow it to run normally. Sometimes they live after this, other times they either seize up again; or the motor burns out after a few operating hours.

 

[goatfarmer]

Hit the side of the compressor with a wood mallet. Who knows?