Heavy Duty!
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9-Millionth Maytag Washer - 16mm Film
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Maytag and whirlpool timer availability
Reply number 32 hi Sean, timers are one of the most difficult things to find for vintage machines in many cases because there was not that much in interchangeability however, whirlpool kept the same dryer timer from 1963 through 1986 in one of their popular dryers, you have a very unusual top-of-the-line whirlpool washer, which only use that timer for a year or so best, but it’s no easier to find a Maytag timer for 340 W or an a 900 S Maytag had some unusual timers also.
Maytag halo of heat DE407 timer was not Interchangeable with any previous Maytag halo of heat dryer. Yes, you could rewire and adapt it but you could do that with most any dryer dryers are pretty simple compared to washer timers.
John L
Reply number 32 hi Sean, timers are one of the most difficult things to find for vintage machines in many cases because there was not that much in interchangeability however, whirlpool kept the same dryer timer from 1963 through 1986 in one of their popular dryers, you have a very unusual top-of-the-line whirlpool washer, which only use that timer for a year or so best, but it’s no easier to find a Maytag timer for 340 W or an a 900 S Maytag had some unusual timers also.
Maytag halo of heat DE407 timer was not Interchangeable with any previous Maytag halo of heat dryer. Yes, you could rewire and adapt it but you could do that with most any dryer dryers are pretty simple compared to washer timers.
John L
whirlpool and maytag
I always thought Whirlpool was much bigger than Maytag as far as manufacturing is concerned, and maybe even GE.
I always thought Whirlpool was much bigger than Maytag as far as manufacturing is concerned, and maybe even GE.
Trade-ins
In the spring and summer of 1977 I worked at a hardware store that was a Maytag and Frigidaire dealer. There were two price levels on appliances - with trade, and without. There was a room in the back of building C where we put the traded in items for inspection, cleaning, and refurbishing. The old man (I thought he was, anyway - I was 21) that did repairs worked on them when he didn't have any calls. Sometimes I would work on cleaning and disassembling items if I wasn't busy with something else. Refrigerators that had bad compressors were usually scrapped unless they were reasonably new, as were rusty washers. The company had several other locations, so a list was kept of what used appliances were at each store, so sometimes we hauled them many miles away. We kept a few old Maytag wringer machines - usually 3 or 4 - in the used sales area in the front of building C, but most were sent to the main location in Hillsboro, which was a more rural location where there was more demand for such items.
In the spring and summer of 1977 I worked at a hardware store that was a Maytag and Frigidaire dealer. There were two price levels on appliances - with trade, and without. There was a room in the back of building C where we put the traded in items for inspection, cleaning, and refurbishing. The old man (I thought he was, anyway - I was 21) that did repairs worked on them when he didn't have any calls. Sometimes I would work on cleaning and disassembling items if I wasn't busy with something else. Refrigerators that had bad compressors were usually scrapped unless they were reasonably new, as were rusty washers. The company had several other locations, so a list was kept of what used appliances were at each store, so sometimes we hauled them many miles away. We kept a few old Maytag wringer machines - usually 3 or 4 - in the used sales area in the front of building C, but most were sent to the main location in Hillsboro, which was a more rural location where there was more demand for such items.
Re Maytag & WP...
Two very different business approaches. MT was built on old fashioned, conservative growth, with almost total vertical integration. That translated well to maintaining high quality standards and rapid design changes, but limited flexibility. When MT offered the Dutch Oven, it was contracted out. But having facilities for casting aluminum and making rubber parts meant they did have private contracts not visible to the public. Expansion was paid out of company funds, not floated debt. Fred II basically set the company up for success long after his passing, and MT rode that well into the 1970's. But those were big shoes to fill, and IMO, incompatible leadership and lack of new product in the pipeline killed MT, it just took 20 years for the head to realize the body was dead.
WP took the opposite approach and aligned with the prevailing conglomerate philosophy of the 1950’s (which ended up killing most too-big-to-fail companies later on). Expand as rapidly as you can into as many things as you can and see what sticks (see also Singer TVs, SMC percolators, General Mills computers, etc). Some they got right (Seeger), some they got wrong (Thomas Organs), but three things kept them afloat. Steady government contracts, the Servel Icemaker, and the golden goose: the Sears/Upton contract that filled the coffers.
When things got bad, they were large enough to consolidate production at their more modern plants. Unfortunately, that meant permanent layoffs and plant closures. Horizontal integration slowed development, but lessened financial risk. For many years they didn’t make their own agitators, but provided capital for improvements for their supplier across town. This is how most large corps operate today.
A good example of this corporate dichotomy: Both MT and WP had gov't contracts during the Korea Conflict. When their duties were fulfilled, MT went back to making washing machines. WP saw the opportunity, started a Defense Division, developed a weapons testing range, and their R&D created one of the scariest Vietnam-era weapons I’ve ever read about.
Two very different business approaches. MT was built on old fashioned, conservative growth, with almost total vertical integration. That translated well to maintaining high quality standards and rapid design changes, but limited flexibility. When MT offered the Dutch Oven, it was contracted out. But having facilities for casting aluminum and making rubber parts meant they did have private contracts not visible to the public. Expansion was paid out of company funds, not floated debt. Fred II basically set the company up for success long after his passing, and MT rode that well into the 1970's. But those were big shoes to fill, and IMO, incompatible leadership and lack of new product in the pipeline killed MT, it just took 20 years for the head to realize the body was dead.
WP took the opposite approach and aligned with the prevailing conglomerate philosophy of the 1950’s (which ended up killing most too-big-to-fail companies later on). Expand as rapidly as you can into as many things as you can and see what sticks (see also Singer TVs, SMC percolators, General Mills computers, etc). Some they got right (Seeger), some they got wrong (Thomas Organs), but three things kept them afloat. Steady government contracts, the Servel Icemaker, and the golden goose: the Sears/Upton contract that filled the coffers.
When things got bad, they were large enough to consolidate production at their more modern plants. Unfortunately, that meant permanent layoffs and plant closures. Horizontal integration slowed development, but lessened financial risk. For many years they didn’t make their own agitators, but provided capital for improvements for their supplier across town. This is how most large corps operate today.
A good example of this corporate dichotomy: Both MT and WP had gov't contracts during the Korea Conflict. When their duties were fulfilled, MT went back to making washing machines. WP saw the opportunity, started a Defense Division, developed a weapons testing range, and their R&D created one of the scariest Vietnam-era weapons I’ve ever read about.
Reply #40
You are correct, John. Just have been searching persistently for over the past 2 years, so far have turned up with nothing. I could try to make more repair attempts to the timer, but have spent quite a bit of time and haven’t gotten anywhere with it. Probably have invested 30+ hours into it, tweaking the contacts, trying to see if things worked as intended (sometimes things would work, other times it wouldn’t on certain parts of the cycle), making various adjustments and such.
If there’s a timer for a Imperial model which was below my Mark XII, could just make it a Imperial model but would also involve the mounting hardware along with the graphics on the bushed aluminum background behind the timer, also would need a dial face and knob.
I am in no way trying to take this off the tracks on trying to steal the spotlight, just replying to John.
You are correct, John. Just have been searching persistently for over the past 2 years, so far have turned up with nothing. I could try to make more repair attempts to the timer, but have spent quite a bit of time and haven’t gotten anywhere with it. Probably have invested 30+ hours into it, tweaking the contacts, trying to see if things worked as intended (sometimes things would work, other times it wouldn’t on certain parts of the cycle), making various adjustments and such.
If there’s a timer for a Imperial model which was below my Mark XII, could just make it a Imperial model but would also involve the mounting hardware along with the graphics on the bushed aluminum background behind the timer, also would need a dial face and knob.
I am in no way trying to take this off the tracks on trying to steal the spotlight, just replying to John.
"The thing is, did any other manufacturer really innovate to make our lives better than Maytag did concerning laundry care?"
Maytag, General Electric and Whirlpool all were busy with R&D to bring innovations to laundry and other major appliance lines.
Who did what first and or better is and has long been a topic of debate.
https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?15433
https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?36921
https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?36664
https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?28784
Maytag, General Electric and Whirlpool all were busy with R&D to bring innovations to laundry and other major appliance lines.
Who did what first and or better is and has long been a topic of debate.
https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?15433
https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?36921
https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?36664
https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?28784
"...and the golden goose: the Sears/Upton contract that filled the coffers."
Sears via their catalog/mail order and nationwide store presence was well placed to sell tons of all sorts of major appliances, and they did. Coupled with "Sears Credit", layaway or other payment plans and you can see why by 1970's Sears could boast something like "one in three American homes has Kenmore appliances"
If one examined manufacturer codes WP was often at top.
106.########
110.########
562.########
665.########
198.########
Sears moved more WP appliances via their Kenmore brand than actual company did IIRC.
Sears via their catalog/mail order and nationwide store presence was well placed to sell tons of all sorts of major appliances, and they did. Coupled with "Sears Credit", layaway or other payment plans and you can see why by 1970's Sears could boast something like "one in three American homes has Kenmore appliances"
If one examined manufacturer codes WP was often at top.
106.########
110.########
562.########
665.########
198.########
Sears moved more WP appliances via their Kenmore brand than actual company did IIRC.
This was also a time for the underdog brands, too...
Frigidaire, Kelvinator, Gibson, Westinghouse, Hamilton, Franklin, Norge, Montgomery Ward Signature, Hotpoint, JC Penney and all the rest, no matter how over time became fledging, also got busy in the laundry wars making the best washers and dryers in the world!!!!
-- Dave
Frigidaire, Kelvinator, Gibson, Westinghouse, Hamilton, Franklin, Norge, Montgomery Ward Signature, Hotpoint, JC Penney and all the rest, no matter how over time became fledging, also got busy in the laundry wars making the best washers and dryers in the world!!!!
-- Dave
As with so many other things major appliances go through a life cycle. Early on you have numerous entrants into market and tons of innovation. As cycle progresses however market becomes saturated and or demand peaks for many reasons including everyone who wants "X" product largely already owns. Gradually number of players in market decreases either via M&A or places simply go out of existence.
General Motors and Ford saw handwriting on wall early on and got out of major appliance market. What you see from about 1970's or so onward is a steady shrinking of major appliance market on both sides of pond if not worldwide. Only about a handful of players dominate major appliance market worldwide. WCI-Electrolux and Whirlpool between them own dozens of major appliance brands, some now long since defunct. Bringing up the rear and fast gaining are Asian concerns such as LG, Samsung, Haier.
What Asian appliance makers don't produce under their own brand names comes in scores of private label (and often cheaply made) things such laundry appliance offerings by Black and Decker.
Same with everything from sewing machines to motor vehicles to railroad locomotives and more.
That WP gobbled up Maytag (largely because no one else but Asians wanted it) speaks volumes about then and current state of major appliance market. [this post was last edited: 3/12/2025-20:28]
General Motors and Ford saw handwriting on wall early on and got out of major appliance market. What you see from about 1970's or so onward is a steady shrinking of major appliance market on both sides of pond if not worldwide. Only about a handful of players dominate major appliance market worldwide. WCI-Electrolux and Whirlpool between them own dozens of major appliance brands, some now long since defunct. Bringing up the rear and fast gaining are Asian concerns such as LG, Samsung, Haier.
What Asian appliance makers don't produce under their own brand names comes in scores of private label (and often cheaply made) things such laundry appliance offerings by Black and Decker.
Same with everything from sewing machines to motor vehicles to railroad locomotives and more.
That WP gobbled up Maytag (largely because no one else but Asians wanted it) speaks volumes about then and current state of major appliance market. [this post was last edited: 3/12/2025-20:28]
Some may not realize Maytag's commercial line-up of laundry appliances goes back to 1958. Company brought several new innovations to commercial/vend laundry market such as using plastic tickets instead of coins. Maytag pioneered stacking dual dryers which saved space. In 1987 Maytag introduced their first commercial front load washing machines. This was about a full decade before Maytag brought out Neptune line of washers so am thinking they sourced such machines from someone else.
Timer Interchangeability
If everyone were like me machines would be built around the concept of repair. Most every model would have a molex connector splitting the wiring harness in two with a standardized color sequence and pin order above and below. That way many different model control panels of various features would be able to connect to nearly any model's harness. This would also allow for a diagnostic tool to be connected via the molex connector to test the health of various parts and their functions during service.
Many different models of timers would also have the same molex or spade order such that a litany of timers would fit electrically in any single washer without modifications. Universal drop in timers would be available with replacement fascia decals to match the new timing and cycle sequence. None of that timer NLA nonsense that occurs with so many vintage models. Transplants would be common where a good control panel would fit a still good cabinet.
If everyone were like me machines would be built around the concept of repair. Most every model would have a molex connector splitting the wiring harness in two with a standardized color sequence and pin order above and below. That way many different model control panels of various features would be able to connect to nearly any model's harness. This would also allow for a diagnostic tool to be connected via the molex connector to test the health of various parts and their functions during service.
Many different models of timers would also have the same molex or spade order such that a litany of timers would fit electrically in any single washer without modifications. Universal drop in timers would be available with replacement fascia decals to match the new timing and cycle sequence. None of that timer NLA nonsense that occurs with so many vintage models. Transplants would be common where a good control panel would fit a still good cabinet.
