Bosch weighs offer for appliance maker Whirlpool

[michaelz08]

@appnut Apologies, I did not refresh the page and see your reply before posting it. The model number for the WP version is:

WDT550SAPZ

There is a fancy KA and JA version as well, though they are very very similar in features: KDTF924PPS, JDAF5924RL

They add more sound insulation, time projection on the floor, interior lighting, SS arms, and cup-holder third racks. I have not yet checked schematics to see if the WP gets a weaker/single speed wash pump vs the KA/JA versions, but I would bet that is the case. Schematics/parts info for them is still a little sparse since they’re so new. The core big changes are there on all: in-line water heaters, shallower depth, automatic door-openers, and (Surprisingly for the WP model) built-inwater softeners. The base construction is much more Bosch-style as well, with everything encapsulated. Exciting to see in a consumer-priced model from a domestic brand.

@gelaundry4ever correct. Same 3rd rack wash (for cups- the WP/Maytag version, not the KA rotating tubes; the silverware rack version is an improved and more euro design) and triple filter system instead of the clean water system. They’re the first new models, so perhaps as more come in they will add other features back in as this new style becomes more common.

They are certainly not discontinuing the traditional/current models they have now, as I have been noticing they are updating the marketing for those as well. Plus those models are barely even 4 years old at this point.

 

[launderess]

"Are you talking about 18” washers? If so, seems like Bosch is the only premium maker of those here since they’re so uncommon."

For sometime only maker of 18" dishwashers in USA (IIRC) was Frigidaire, both portable and built in. Yes, market was just that small. Sears had a Kenmore version but again was sourced from Frigidaire.

Danby joined that list later on, but as you say of premium European products only Bosch and IIRC at one point Miele bothered.

European units were only built-in, but many years ago now Ikea sold a kit that allowed one to make a portable case for 18" dishwashers. Being also European IKEA obviously saw a niche that wanted filling.

 

[carolina128]

Growing up, we had one of those Kenmore 18” dishwashers in the basement. I always wondered who made it- I guess now I know it was Frigidaire.

It was never an amazing dishwasher in terms of its performance, but it’s been very reliable. I think it’s still working.

 

[michaelz08]

@launderess Miele does still too, I forgot about them.
WP, GE, and Frigidaire still market some models, performance in such a size is dubious because of the geometry of such a wash tub limited the size of the arms. The euro ones are probably the only ones worth buying since they actually have a big market for them there.

I have a little experience with an older 18" Frigidaire from a hotel, however it seemed to be pre-the removal of phosphates from detergent as everything came out with such a thick layer of crust that it made things dirtier. And they didn't provide any rinse aid, though this was so sever it probably wouldn't have solved it completely.

 

[launderess]

Actually once owned a WCI/Frigidaire 18" portable dw. It was Kenmore/Sears version but via first three letter suffix of model number it was easy to suss made by Frigidaire.

Thing was "ok" in terms of getting job done, but had many issues.

IIRC from things read on forum WCI used old D&M design for these dishwashers which left much to be desired. Glassware or anything else in upper racks tended to have yibbles both in and outside unless things were carefully scraped or rinsed. Indeed things on lower racks sometimes didn't fare any better with plates, silverware and other things again covered in yibbles.

Given how many kitchens in Europe are often space challenged can understand why 18" dishwasher are somewhat popular. On this side of pond they were and still are largely a niche market.

Europe does have some very good countertop dishwashers IIRC. AEG, Bosch, Russell Hobbs and others have them on offer.

 

[michaelz08]

Very cool! I had no idea that any reputable brands were in the countertop dw market. The only ones I had seen in passing were those off-brands.

The capacity is so small I wonder how practical they really are in day to day use. I suppose for one person it will save effort and water for normal dish load. And I'm sure a Bosch version would clean well even heavily loaded.

 

[launderess]

Early Danby countertop units apparently weren't that bad.

https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?37602

https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?28615

https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?23563

Concept of countertop dishwashers however isn't new.

Electrolux Dishmaid Dishwasher 1961

Following his visit to the new vintage washroom Richard (ricky5050) brought his tabletop Electrolux dishwasher so we could see it working. This is Electrolux`s first dishwasher and is semi-automatic, no heater, you simply connect the hose to your hot water and fill the machine sump. switch on...

www.automaticwasher.org

 

[henene4]

ELux stopped their counter top DWs a few years back here in Germany.

Bosch/Siemens still is the gold standard there - they are basically the same design (pump, filter, spray arm etc.) as the normal size ones.
They even make them into a design that basically fits in a typical built-in space for something like an oven so you can just chuck them at any height you want if space is a premium.

But most countertop machines are of the Chinese variety, made by Midea and the like.

But the 18" market is certainly sizeable. You can get one at basically any price and in any variant (panel ready to free standing) - just all in "regular" height.
Biggest drawback: They use basically the same amount of water and thus energy as the full size ones and they cost basically the same as the comparable 24" version.
So if at all possible, you just design them out of kitchens. Especially with the trend of raising DWs up about 18-24" fron the floor, you usually design in an 24" wide machine so you can fit cabinets above and below.

 

[logixx]

I have a Bosch countertop dishwasher from 1993. Takes about 50 minutes for a full cycle and, indeed, scrubs everything clean. It worked fine for a household of two - although it certainly had to run every day if cooking was involved.

I upgraded to an 18" Bosch a few years ago, though.

Here's a tall countertop model from 1963.

 

[logixx]

An old video from 2012 about their "modular" dishwashers.

 

[murando531]

The KitchenAids with the auto-open door that you’re referring to as “Whirlpool’s new euro-style dishwasher” is just the ADA compliant Chinese made machine that multiple brands have at least one of in their lineup. It’s not made by WP-KA and has nothing to do with their platform. They have some added cosmetics to make them fit in with the flagship lineup, and that’s it.

Also not sure where you’re getting that the self-cleaning pump system is “too noisy”. I haven’t seen a single person say that in the four years since they launched the current platform, myself included, as my 604 is so quiet that you have to turn the house silent and sit right in front of it to hear anything.

I myself wouldn’t have anything to do with the ADA model, regardless of what gimmicks have been added to it. I doubt the auto-open mechanism would last more than a couple years given the build quality of the rest of the machine, and the time on the floor thing is tacky and makes no sense when I can just tilt my head slightly to see the time readout under the lip of the counter.

 

[launderess]

Not just dishwashers

You can see from this old Phillips advert for top loading washing machine why 16" to 18" dishwashers are (or were) popular in many parts of Europe.

That narrow width makes both washers and dishwashers easily fitted into tight kitchen real estate.

 

[michaelz08]

@murando531 I know the model you are talking about and I feel you may be mixing up some things, if you are referring to ones like the WDF550SAHW. The big telltale is the different door latch with the sensor in the tub frame and a triangular door latch, as it uses the same as I have seen on other Chinese made washers.

Can you share an example of one of the other Chinese ones you are saying are the basis for the newly introduced WP ones so I can compare? Otherwise inside and out they look like what I would expect for WP products, from rack design to sump-area design (which looks similar to the current iteration, just sans a heater). I have looked at current Haier and Midea models and visually I do not see anything to imply a connection.

I have checked at the UK site and the new models are indeed the euro models with some changes for the US market, such as different lower racks and door controls. They have been offering auto-open doors there for many years now. They use a bosch-style system with an arm that pokes out to push the door.

I apologize, I did not mean to imply the self cleaning pump was *too* noisy and perhaps I phrased it poorly, only that I have heard it mentioned that the Jenn Air units forgo the system because it adds *some* additional noise that they did not want for theirs- making it "too noisy" for whatever their standard is. Their units are all rated under 40 db, whereas clean-water system KA units are 44 db. Personally I have not interacted with either and so I cannot comment past what I have read/seen online.

 

[mark_wpduet]

You know the thing that bugs me MOST about Whirlpool since around after 2020 or so... whenever they redesigned their front load washers a few years ago... they started using plastic instead of glass... while ALL the other front loaders used glass... Of all of the manufacturers, WHIRLPOOL uses plastic.... What does that say about them? Where else did they cut corners? That just totally bugged the hell out of me that they did that...

That being said.. I still trust their fridges/ranges (electric for me) more than any of the others... and their dishwashers too..

 

[michaelz08]

@mark_wpduet That's an interesting remark, I have not been in the market for washers/dryers lately. And it is a very good point. The only WP washer/dryers we have in my family are from 2007, with the primary machines being made in Germany as they came from that odd inbetween period before they started making them here. They're superb machines, if not as smooth/quiet as modern ones, but they clean extremely well.

Looking at consumer reports, they rate WP as "average" reliability with LG and Electrolux being more reliable. Ironically, those brands are not known for the best kitchen appliances, whereas I would say WP is stronger in that area. A friend of mine is about to purchase a stacked Electrolux set, so I will see firsthand how that fares over the next few years.

 

[biggpete]

Kitchenaid 58

Hey John, (combo-52) do you happen to have one of these in good to decent shape that you looking to sell? These are pics of mine but I’m looking for a second Superba model of that same generation incase I have to swap parts at some point.