toploadloyalist
Well-known member
I've been wondering about the difference between 'knits' and 'double knits' fabrics as defined by some manufacturers jurisdictions.
'Double Knits' definition
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launderess
Well-known member
Double knit originally referred to a method of kitting two fabrics together on same needle.
As related to fashions of 1970's double knit (often of polyester) merely referred to two layers of double thick machine knitted fabric.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_knitting
https://www.threadsmagazine.com/2008/11/19/how-to-identify-knit-fabrics
https://www.seamwork.com/magazine/2015/01/working-with-double-knit
If you lived through the 1970's or watch television of period such as "That 70's Show", then you are familiar with the wonderful world of polyester double knit fabric. It showed up all over from leisure suits, to pants/slacks/trousers, to jackets... Many uniforms for say nurses and others were made from the stuff (and still are for that matter) for a few good reasons.
Thanks to being made from our not so good friend Mr. Polyester those garments were "wash and wear". You could literally throw a "suit" into washer then dryer and have it look good as new. Well in theory anyway..., much depended upon what sort of washer and or dryer one used, and one's laundering skills.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leisure_suit
Knits don't wrinkle, but do give (have stretch) so it double knit fabrics were often made into tailored and or garments that had nice fit to body. Again look at the pants guys wear on "That 70's Show" especially Fez and Kelso
http://www.plaidstallions.com/images/choices.jpg
As related to fashions of 1970's double knit (often of polyester) merely referred to two layers of double thick machine knitted fabric.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_knitting
https://www.threadsmagazine.com/2008/11/19/how-to-identify-knit-fabrics
https://www.seamwork.com/magazine/2015/01/working-with-double-knit
If you lived through the 1970's or watch television of period such as "That 70's Show", then you are familiar with the wonderful world of polyester double knit fabric. It showed up all over from leisure suits, to pants/slacks/trousers, to jackets... Many uniforms for say nurses and others were made from the stuff (and still are for that matter) for a few good reasons.
Thanks to being made from our not so good friend Mr. Polyester those garments were "wash and wear". You could literally throw a "suit" into washer then dryer and have it look good as new. Well in theory anyway..., much depended upon what sort of washer and or dryer one used, and one's laundering skills.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leisure_suit
Knits don't wrinkle, but do give (have stretch) so it double knit fabrics were often made into tailored and or garments that had nice fit to body. Again look at the pants guys wear on "That 70's Show" especially Fez and Kelso
http://www.plaidstallions.com/images/choices.jpg
I had a couple pairs of double-knit pants, and a leisure suit , while I was in high school. They were for church or some other more formal occasion. Never worn to school, as that was always jeans or cords.
I was a teenager at the height of the double knit craze. Possibly the single most horrific fashion trend of the 20th century. Wait—cross out ‘possibly’.
1970s double knit fabrics
The stuff was really durable And washed and dried beautifully
These are two quilts that my mother made out of scraps from dresses that she had made for herself and friends from the 70s.
We have had these laying around the house and on the backs of the couches for years the backing finally wore out on one of them and she replace the cotton backing but the double knit never faded or wore at all.
The stuff was really durable And washed and dried beautifully
These are two quilts that my mother made out of scraps from dresses that she had made for herself and friends from the 70s.
We have had these laying around the house and on the backs of the couches for years the backing finally wore out on one of them and she replace the cotton backing but the double knit never faded or wore at all.
toploadloyalist
Well-known member
Thanks for your help! BTW, That 70s Show had Mila Kunis (Jackie) capture my heart!
My Wards Signature 20-lb capacity machine has the coveted “double knits” cycle meaning slow agitation/spin and warm wash with cold rinse.
launderess
Well-known member
If made mostly from or all polyester then "double knit" items should be treated as permanent press. Gentle agitation with moderate wash water temps, and cold/cool rinse.
By late 1950's and certianily by 1970's most washing machines and dryers in North America and Europe at least had dedicated "Permanent Press" or "Easy Cares" cycles. You may have had to buy TOL or MOL to get them, but they were available.
By late 1950's and certianily by 1970's most washing machines and dryers in North America and Europe at least had dedicated "Permanent Press" or "Easy Cares" cycles. You may have had to buy TOL or MOL to get them, but they were available.
warmsecondrinse
Well-known member
#3
"I was a teenager at the height of the double knit craze. Possibly the single most horrific fashion trend of the 20th century. Wait—cross out ‘possibly’."
You took the words right out of my mouth!
Puberty hit me the same time the 100% polyester double knit craze hit my neck of the woods... or at least hit my mother. The first thing I noticed was how utterly slimy and disgusting that felt on my skin which had its own problems with off the charts oil and sweat production. My mother never did understand how/why I'd prefer much 'rougher' natural fabric over 'softer' polyester. Even 65%cotton/35%polyester was only a small improvement for me.
Having to iron 100% cotton Oxford shirts was a very, very small price to pay to avoid The Ferocius Polyester!
And the less said about the fashion that went with the double knit, the better!
"I was a teenager at the height of the double knit craze. Possibly the single most horrific fashion trend of the 20th century. Wait—cross out ‘possibly’."
You took the words right out of my mouth!
Puberty hit me the same time the 100% polyester double knit craze hit my neck of the woods... or at least hit my mother. The first thing I noticed was how utterly slimy and disgusting that felt on my skin which had its own problems with off the charts oil and sweat production. My mother never did understand how/why I'd prefer much 'rougher' natural fabric over 'softer' polyester. Even 65%cotton/35%polyester was only a small improvement for me.
Having to iron 100% cotton Oxford shirts was a very, very small price to pay to avoid The Ferocius Polyester!
And the less said about the fashion that went with the double knit, the better!
Exhibit A: The leisure suit.
This is probably one of the better examples of the double knit in its natural habitat.
This is probably one of the better examples of the double knit in its natural habitat.
launderess
Well-known member
My little harvest gold Whirlpool portable/stationary washer had same "Super Wash" settings. Quite clever of WP to give housewives a way to pre-wash and soak laundry, then going on to main wash.
ozzie908
Well-known member
Cute Little Puppy
That picture just slipped in there, and I left it.
On a service call last week my first customer on Capital Hill had this very playful 9 week old puppy and I was sitting on the floor in front of a WP Duet washer waiting for it act up and this puppy just crawled into my lap and went to sleep.
Friendly dogs are one of the many great perks of my job, one customer told me once that she thinks I just come to play with her dog, LOL
John L.
That picture just slipped in there, and I left it.
On a service call last week my first customer on Capital Hill had this very playful 9 week old puppy and I was sitting on the floor in front of a WP Duet washer waiting for it act up and this puppy just crawled into my lap and went to sleep.
Friendly dogs are one of the many great perks of my job, one customer told me once that she thinks I just come to play with her dog, LOL
John L.
There were several variations of the wash cool down. The original W-n-W cycle had repeated partial drains and refills with no agitation, as many as could occur in 2 timer increments (4 mins) with the timer running only during the drains.
A variation moreso for Perm Press than W-n-W had agitation for 1 timer increment after the refill. Kenmore had a version that agitated *during* part of the the refill (while the drain increment ran-out).
Whirlpool introduced a separate Knit cycle in the 1970s ('72?) with a single cool down.
Water conservation concerns later changed PP to a single drain/refill. The timer on our 1976 Supreme 80 went bad, the replacement had a single cool down on both PP and Knit whereas PP was originally a double cool down.
A 2003 DD I have (timer below) has two spin sprays on PP labeled on the timer as a Cool Down. Normal cycle has no sprays in the first spin.
Whirlpool had the Super Wash prewash/soak/drain cycle for years across many models. My 1991 KitchenAid has it, as did the parents' 1994 KA.
Super Wash on the timer pictured does not involve soak/partial drain, it's just a longer 16-mins wash time.
Does my memory have crossed wires or was there a washer brand that offered slow agitation and fast spin speed on its Knits cycle? I believe the rationale was that knits hung on to water and thus required a fast spin.
John, the quilts your mom made are beautiful. She made what I'd consider the best use of double knit fabrics--and they are family keepsakes to boot.
John, the quilts your mom made are beautiful. She made what I'd consider the best use of double knit fabrics--and they are family keepsakes to boot.
launderess
Well-known member
Knitted items made from wool actually can withstand and benefit from a fast (but short) spin cycle. Things like blankets, sweaters, etc.... not only will dry faster but won't be so heavy (especially the former) water laden when hung on lines to dry.
Polyester and other man-made fibers for most part are hydrophobic, they resist water and don't absorb that much if any. Short spin is all that is required, but you don't want it too fast due to risk of creating creases.
If you've ever washed poly/cotton blend sheets with "normal" cycle and noticed after even ironing creases still remain no matter what one does, that is what happens to the polyester part. This will happen especially if tub was too crowded for synthetics but just fine for normal fabrics.
Ideally "easy cares" fabrics or items should mean just that, things come out of washer and maybe dried or ironed (depending upon fiber content and manufactures instructions) with little fuss. Otherwise what is the point?
Polyester and other man-made fibers for most part are hydrophobic, they resist water and don't absorb that much if any. Short spin is all that is required, but you don't want it too fast due to risk of creating creases.
If you've ever washed poly/cotton blend sheets with "normal" cycle and noticed after even ironing creases still remain no matter what one does, that is what happens to the polyester part. This will happen especially if tub was too crowded for synthetics but just fine for normal fabrics.
Ideally "easy cares" fabrics or items should mean just that, things come out of washer and maybe dried or ironed (depending upon fiber content and manufactures instructions) with little fuss. Otherwise what is the point?
eurekastar
Well-known member
Ah yes, double knit polyester! I once owned a blue plaid sports jacket with wide lapels made from that miracle fabric. I wore it with a pair of white bell-bottom double knit pants, wide white leather belt and white monk strap shoes...quite stylish! LOL! I took my girlfriend on a date with that ensemble, wreaking of Hi-Karate. She broke up with me after that!
mickeyd
Well-known member
Polyester clothing ~
People loved this stuff to death. It was everywhere and everybody had some. No wrinkles, no ironing at all, almost miraculous the way these "miracle fabrics" came out of the drier, especially for a generation reared on must-be-ironed--no excuse!!-- 100 % cotton.
But then it was accidentally discovered that a random hot ash from a cigar, etc. could make the fabric melt with alarming alacrity. And the air quickly flew out of that balloon.
Glenn, I have to check but this Mark XII, does FOUR refills on PP on the low water level setting.
And I love the Knits cycle on another Whirlpool for blended shirts. You leave the lid up; thus no spin, and the cool-down is a much better substitute for the dreaded gray water, no spin without a cooldown on some modern TL's.
People loved this stuff to death. It was everywhere and everybody had some. No wrinkles, no ironing at all, almost miraculous the way these "miracle fabrics" came out of the drier, especially for a generation reared on must-be-ironed--no excuse!!-- 100 % cotton.
But then it was accidentally discovered that a random hot ash from a cigar, etc. could make the fabric melt with alarming alacrity. And the air quickly flew out of that balloon.
Glenn, I have to check but this Mark XII, does FOUR refills on PP on the low water level setting.
And I love the Knits cycle on another Whirlpool for blended shirts. You leave the lid up; thus no spin, and the cool-down is a much better substitute for the dreaded gray water, no spin without a cooldown on some modern TL's.
IIRC, WP and KM advised to always use max fill level on W-n-W / PP ... at least in the early days.
Knit cycle was on the LAA and LDA series, don't recall LFA. The Imperial Mark 18 LAA and LDA models could (presumably, if low wasn't hard-wired into the timer) do a high spin on Knit via the separate speed buttons.
toploadloyalist
Well-known member
Did Whirlpool ever have the simulateous fill & agitate like Kenmore?
Reply # 21
Yes, WPs WnW- PP cycle worked the same way as it did on Kenmore models.
John
Yes, WPs WnW- PP cycle worked the same way as it did on Kenmore models.
John
John,
Agitation during refill for the remainder of the drain increment was a thing specifically related to combination of a W-n-W/PP cycle? ... vs. W-n-W/non-PP that repeatedly drained and refilled with no agitation ... vs. PP that drained, refilled, then agitated? Is that the logic behind the difference?
Our 1970 Kenmore 800 agitated during fill of the drain increment on the PP cycle. Neighbors next door had a 1966/1967 next to TOL WP pair that had cycle designated as PP/W'n'W cycle. It shifted to gentle about 4 or 6 minute segment of wash. It didn't agitate during fill on the drain increment. Only after finished filling during each of the 2 cooldown segments. Rinse agitation was also gentle.
toploadloyalist
Well-known member
When did WP switch to the drain-pause-fill-agitate sequence? KM did so in 1976, on high speed.
Two things don’t make sense to me regarding Kenmore’s cool down protocol:
1959-1960 models (had a ‘59 LK and grew up with a ‘60 Model 80) did several partial drains and refills with no agitation whatsoever. I used the Wash ‘n’ Wear Sturdy cycle for fun a couple of times, which provided medium temp wash water (warmer than warm, but not outright hot). After all those refills—don’t recall how many anymore, but I’d guess it was 4 or 5—the water at the front of the tub was still not cold. The water in the rear half of the tub, where the fresh water rained in, was, of course, cold.
Fast forward a number of years and it started agitating as soon as the refill began. So you’ve gone to all the trouble of treating your W ‘n’ W items carefully, only to have them jerked around by (albeit slow) agitation with only half a tub of water.
Why didn’t they let the machine agitate for a bit once each refill was complete? There would be no warm spots and it would be gentler to fabrics.
1959-1960 models (had a ‘59 LK and grew up with a ‘60 Model 80) did several partial drains and refills with no agitation whatsoever. I used the Wash ‘n’ Wear Sturdy cycle for fun a couple of times, which provided medium temp wash water (warmer than warm, but not outright hot). After all those refills—don’t recall how many anymore, but I’d guess it was 4 or 5—the water at the front of the tub was still not cold. The water in the rear half of the tub, where the fresh water rained in, was, of course, cold.
Fast forward a number of years and it started agitating as soon as the refill began. So you’ve gone to all the trouble of treating your W ‘n’ W items carefully, only to have them jerked around by (albeit slow) agitation with only half a tub of water.
Why didn’t they let the machine agitate for a bit once each refill was complete? There would be no warm spots and it would be gentler to fabrics.
toploadloyalist
Well-known member
Early Kenmore 'Alphabet' washers' hot delicate w
When Kenmore first started their 'alphabet' cycles c.1960, the wash temprature for the 'Delicate Fabrics' selection was hot, while 'Washable Woolens' had warm wash. Any idea why they originally had that temperature for the former, and when and how did they determine otherwise? More recent washers, particularly coin-op ones, have almost exclusively cold wash for such cycles.
When Kenmore first started their 'alphabet' cycles c.1960, the wash temprature for the 'Delicate Fabrics' selection was hot, while 'Washable Woolens' had warm wash. Any idea why they originally had that temperature for the former, and when and how did they determine otherwise? More recent washers, particularly coin-op ones, have almost exclusively cold wash for such cycles.
launderess
Well-known member
IIRC by late 1960's to early 1970's Lady Kenmore "Letter" top loaders had "warm/cold" as their "Delicates" cycle. Though some models may also have had a cold option for wash and or rinse to over ride programmed setting.
If we're talking about "delicates" made from nylon or other synthetics, then hot water isn't going to harm them, in fact might do a world of good depending upon what sort of wash day product was being used.
https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?47320
https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?1142
If we're talking about "delicates" made from nylon or other synthetics, then hot water isn't going to harm them, in fact might do a world of good depending upon what sort of wash day product was being used.
https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?47320
https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?1142
launderess
Well-known member
Furthermore while there were other options such as Deft, Woolite and other light duty detergents for "nice things"; many women still preferred to use soap like Ivory Snow or Lux Flakes for their fine washables.
If you're going to use soap, then you want hot, or very warm water for washing.
In fact if using "Delicate" cycle for all sorts of wash made from cotton, linen, or man made fibers Ivory Snow, Lux and other soaps still tried hard well into early 1960's to hang onto that market.
But by 1970's it was pretty much becoming a lost cause. Light duty detergents such as Woolite began stepping up their game. Then there is fact that those detergents didn't have associated issues that come from using soap on wash day.
If you're going to use soap, then you want hot, or very warm water for washing.
In fact if using "Delicate" cycle for all sorts of wash made from cotton, linen, or man made fibers Ivory Snow, Lux and other soaps still tried hard well into early 1960's to hang onto that market.
But by 1970's it was pretty much becoming a lost cause. Light duty detergents such as Woolite began stepping up their game. Then there is fact that those detergents didn't have associated issues that come from using soap on wash day.
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