Dyson Contrarotator is Coming....

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Wow,I wonder if they're going to contract it out to another company i.e. GE or actualy bring them out under their own.I guess since their vacuums are so popular here already,they'll just add the washers to the list but do they make or is somebody making a dryer that matches???????? I guess only time will tell.
 
What a concept

Contrarotating Dryer!!

I was able to read the patent this am.
The cycle contains:

Pre-Wash
Main Wash 4.6.10 minute options. They claim in their patent that the washing action cuts wash time in about half compared to conventional front loaders!!
Other wash options Regular Wash = 13 seconds contra & 6 seconds rest Heavy wash = 20 seconds contra 5 seconds rest Delicate wash i think was 10 seconds contra 20 seconds rest and super delicate wash 6 seconds contra 32 seconds rest
DUvet and Large Item wash ( for items that fill the whole drum) is done with the tubs locked so they turn in the SAME direction at all times.
It seems there is no spin before the first rinse (I hope this is not the case that is important!)
3 Rinses
Spin after each Rinse (YAY!)
1 Optional Rinse
Final Spin at 1600 RPM for 10 MINUTES!! WOW! That drum is huge so 1600 will we alot of G loading on the clothes! Can you say DRY!
 
1600rpm? Over here in Britain they spin at 1400rpm, but still manages to get an A for spinning effect.

I'm not too keen on Dyson as a company themselves, am not too impressed with their vacuums (I HATE!!!! mine) and really think the design just solves a problem that isn't there. HOWEVER - doesn't mean it doesn't make for an exciting washer, would love to see one of these in action! I've only seen them on in demo mode in shops during the past 4 yaers or so they've been out.

Jon
 
Demo...

The salesperson will HAVE TO hook that baby up and let me see the theory of wash action known as smackulation!......<p>......... "I bet ContraRotating Nubulators would SmackUlate the Clothing Big Time!!" --jetcone
 
ROTFLMAOF

Oh Jim: You have THE memory! Yes I want clothes that a smaculicous clean!

Jon: That patent states 1600 RPM and at their first website introduction it showed the test model being test spun at 1600 RPM but if you have only seen 1400RPM in the actual machine then it probably means Dyson was covering a range of speeds in the patent. I would love to see a tub that size spinning at 1600 though!

Jon ( smackulated in Boston)
 
its my screen name

Not a prob Jon! Many people do that. I think it is my screenname. JMIRAWM. Which if anyone is curious.....came from:<P> J ust M y I magination R unning A way W ith M e!<P> Tom
 
Just read another patent on the Dyson!

This contrarotator is something! Its the only machine evermade with a WINDOW IN THE PUMP/COINTRAP!!! So the "user" can see what is caught in there without having to open it up and so the "user" can see if the impeller vanes are happily spinning about!

It also has TWO motors just like the original GE AW-6! First machine to do that in 60 years!

Jet
 
Now hold on, my mother's Bosch frontloader from 1966 had three (!) motors!! That was a frontloader too. It had a motor for washing, a motor for spinning and a motor for the pump. Besides that, every modern European washer has two motors!

Overhere the Dyson disappeared from the stores, nobody was going to pay twice the price of a Miele for that thing.
 
It makes sense to have motors that are specifically matched to the tasks they have to perform.

I suspect the Dysons will eventually have a wear issue with the seal between the two drum halves. Think of this: if your drum halves are each rotating at e.g. 40 rpm in opposite directions, the seal between them is getting 80 rpm relative speed, or twice as many revolutions in the same amount of time, or getting worn from both sides toward the middle. Twice the wear. I would love to know how they address this issue. Also the compressive and tensile forces will be distributed unevenly based on the load center of gravity.

It will be interesting to see how these perform over the years.
 
"It also has TWO motors..."

What about the first 1949 Hotpoint?

And do the modern machines with a separate electric pump count, or is this two main motors? The separate electric pump idea has been around for a long time; Hotpoint used a separate pump for suds drain/return on their Silhouette models. Didn't realize this until I saw the repair manual. I guess it has only been recently that washers are using these as the drain pump...
 
I'll give you 3 motors and 3 slaps!!!

Louis - I was only addressing the drive motors as all machines now have a seperate pump motor. The 1946 GE had a motor for spin and a motor for wash.
So by your standard that makes the Dyson a 3 motor machine and by mine a 2 motor machine.
I think Dyson will have to lower his asking price and be easily accessible to sell in volume to compete on the US market. Thats how it works over here.
There are too many $900-$1700 machines at our local "box" stores just around the corner. American consumers on the whole are not looking for features they look for three things always and they are: "Brand name" and "easy use + results" and "price" in various orders of importance.
I doubt anyone ( but washer people) over here will care that the DYSON can knock off 12 miuntes of wash because there are two tubs doing the work of one, especially on a new unknown brand.

M2C

jetcone
 
Slaphappy?

Well mister Jetcone,

Where on earth do you get that second motor from? If I remember correctly the Dyson has only one motor and a transmission to run both drums. On the scan you posted here I don't see any information about two motors, is there more information you have? I would love to be enlightened on this topic. You'd better give us more detailed information, otherwise I might return those slaps!!!

BTW, in my lunchbreak today I visited the only store here in town that had two Dysons on the floor, but they have both gone now.

Enquiring mind in Europe
 
Louis,

Jon's right - the Dyson's have two separate motors here. That's one of the reasons why the blasted things are so damn noisy...

Maybe you deserve a slap from me aswell ;-)

Jon
 
IMHO the pump motor counts as a motor. This way, instances where there is not a separate pump motor stand out more clearly.

OK, the Dyson review on your link there is a really strong case for this machine. And the pictures of the door seals are revealing. I always though the door seal was a weak link in a front loader. (How'bout a top-loading horizontal axis machine like the Staber, but with a clear perspex front on the drum, that lines up with a window on the front of the cabinet, thereby making the drum interior visible?) Hmm, I'll keep my eyes open for these things when they show up around here.
 
Ohh I think I'll slap you in person this summer!

Louis:
Your photo does reveal and important element change from the patents!!! I see from the picture that the tub is suspended by springs! In the patents they outlined 8 shock absorbers as the suspension means. I was looking forward to playing with 8 shock absorbers as I think that will make it much more stable! They may still be there and the springs are just to carry the weight because now upon thinking Shock Absorbers can't carry or suspend weight!

Can't wait to see it in person.

Jon

PS thanks to Jon LavaMat for backing me up against the fierce NL'er resolve! GEEZE!~
 
Joe I've bookmarked the page, so I can get back to it after I download Windows Media Viewer for Macintosh.

Staber's most unique point is the combination of polygon shapes that causes a lot of forced movement of water. Very very clever. Probably better cleaning than the normal freefall action.

They really should offer a model with a clear fronted drum and a round window in the main cabinet. That would complicate matters for their design, where the belt is currently in the front for easy access in case of belt replacements. But I think it should be possible, just mold the drive pulley integral with the clear plastic front of the drum, or use a ring pulley around the circumference or some such modification.

I'm starting to think that the most efficient washer design (user's time, as well as water and electricity) would have a horizontal tub like a Staber, and flexible controls so you can choose either a fully auto cycle or a manually-controlled cycle, and various water levels for each part of the cycle. Team that up with a high-speed vertical axis centrifuge you could use either as a final spin dry, or in conjunction with intermediate rinses. Best of both worlds in terms of flexibility and speed.
 
H-axis twintub

Designgeek, I know what you mean!! An H-axis twintub. Those were introduced in the late fifties or early sixties on the mainland of Europe (The UK had the more traditional twintubs with agitators or impellers). Unfortunately those models were not very efficient because the wash drum didn't spin. They had a fully automatic cycle with prewash, wash and five rinses. After that the laundry was transported to the spinner and with 2800rpm the laundry was spun dry.

They spun the laundry much dryer than the old frontloaders with their lower spinspeeds. But you can't stop progress, when frontloaders got higher spinspeeds (1600, 1800 and even 2000rpm) there is no need for separate spinners or twintubs with a vertical axis centrifuge. And the new frontloaders are way more efficient with water than the H-axis twintubs. Here's a picture.

2-3-2005-11-42-38--foraloysius.jpg
 
Well Jon,

The H-axis twintubs as I explained do only spin in the vertical axis drum. So they don't spin between rinses which means that they need lots of water to get the suds out of the laundry. Ofcourse the normal H-axis toploaders (like the Miele in this picture) that spin in the same tub are just as efficient as any European frontloader.

Louis

2-3-2005-15-05-12--foraloysius.jpg
 
Wow...!

Foraloysius: exactly! Where can I get one of those H-axis twinnies? And how difficult would it be to replace the motors or whatever is needed for it to run on American 120 volts AC at 60 hz? I can take care of the cycle switch modifications to break out the rinse cycles and allow a manual transfer to the spinner after each rinse. That would get it down to: wash, transfer, extract, transfer, rinse, transfer, extract, done. More manual intervention of course, but exactly what I'm looking for as an R&D machine.

Implicit assumption here: vertical spin will always be more efficient and also less wear on the machine due to balance issues, than a comparable speed horizontal spin where the machine has to fiddle with the load a bit before reaching a reasonable balance so it can start the highspeed spin.

If H-axis twinnies are totally unobtainable, what about an H-axis toploading compact that has an old-style mechanical cycle controller? Is the latter still made new? That in turn can be modified as per above, and paired up with a SpinX or similar separate component spin dryer.

I still want a window in the front of the drum, but I get the idea that's about ten years away, until manufacturers realize that, all other factors equal, people -not only geeks and collectors- prefer to see what's going on in there.
 
Designgeek,

Actually those H-axis twintubs are more or less a thing of the past. AEG was the biggest manufacturer of these machines. They had a long life even when they were used intensively because they were actually quite simple machines. Because the washtub doesn't spin, there is no suspension. And they are very easy to repair. The housewives on the European continent didn't want to interfere with the washing process as the British housewives did with their classic twintubs.

There is still one of these machines made, but if I'm informed well, the quality of that thing is not very impressive. It's a Velo, I added a link to a Dutch onlineshop (actually the only place you can get this thing I think).

http://www.internetshop.nl/prod_info.pl?ID=2473&cat=wasautomaten_bovenladers
 
BTW

A few years ago I made some pictures of the twintub of my friend Ed. They are in my Yahoo album.

BTW, about the vertical spin, I don't think they are that big of an advantage anymore, new frontloaders with high spinspeeds like Miele have no problems with coping with the high spinspeeds. So there is really no need for an efficient H-axis toploader anymore.

I also think that a manual operated machine like you think about should still rinse at least two or three times to get a decent rinse result. So there are a lot of moments for transporting the laundry.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/foral.../pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/foraloysius/my_photos
 

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