Early KitchenAid KDS-21: The Holy Grail Has Finally Been Found

[thatwasherguy]

Hi everyone! Hope you’re all well. A couple of days ago, I was scrolling through Facebook Marketplace, and saw something that nearly made my heart stop; a Hobart-built KitchenAid KDS-21! I have wanted one of these for at least 6 years, so I was extremely happy to have finally found one ‘in the wild’. The seller only wanted $35 for it, and stated that it does still run, but that it has some rust issues with the racks, and is loud (both pretty standard with dishwashers of this vintage). It’s also missing the front panels, but I plan to instal custom ones to match my 1991 Sub Zero 550 refrigerator. I contacted the seller, and they very kindly agreed to hold it for me. I’m going to pick it up on Sunday, and it’s a beautiful drive to where it’s at, so I’m very much looking forward to that. Here’s the teaser pictures from the Marketplace ad. Better ones will follow once it is in my possession.
Thatwasherguy.

 

[rollermatic]

had one in my collectio at one time

and if i remember correctly the 21 models were the first to use a reversing motor and pump style.

enjoy it!

 

[rollermatic]

i might have racks

for that 21 model. think i parted mine out years ago. i'm more of a 15-17 model guy myself.

also i see you are in kentucky, i'm ohio, cinti. and columbus but all my collection is in cinti. if you are ever interested in a 17 model i have about a dozen and need to thin em out, would gladly give you one. i have some i have never touched yet and can't guarentee what you will find when you tear into them but i have never found one yet that beyond repair. and you can still get pump seals and other parts on ebay.

 

[thatwasherguy]

I’m finally back…

And I’ve got some information to share about this machine. The couple I bought it from (who were extremely kind) were the original owners. They bought it when they moved the kitchen to a newly built extension on the house in 1984. They chose the KA because they are on a septic system, and it was the most water efficient machine in it’s class that they looked at. They also said that they have extremely soft water, and that they had to pre-rinse their dishes to get them to clean, most likely due to only keeping their water heater at 120 degrees (which would certainly help to explain the rotten racks). They also told me that they only ran it once a week on the normal cycle with no heated dry, and never used the rinse aid system. A preliminary inspection of the drying fan found that the blower wheel is spotless, and that the fan rotates freely with no bearing noise whatsoever. They even still had the original owner’s manual AND sales sticker! They also added that I got in touch with them just in the nick of time, as they had just offered it to a scrapper when I reached out, and were very happy that somebody wanted it. Outside of the rotten racks and the control panel paint starting to peel at the edges, the rest of the machine looks to be in VERY good condition overall. I won’t be able to test it for at least a few days, as I have to sell a dryer in order to make space for it in my garage, and my deep storage area doesn’t have water. I also found a few old glass vases that my neighbor was throwing away, so I collected them to use for testing the performance of the dishwasher, before any work is done to it. I also plan to throw in some other challenging things in addition to the dirty vases, such as dried on egg, mustard, ketchup, BBQ sauce, and whatever else I can find in the house that’ll dirty up a dish. I plan to give it a fair shot at success, by supplying it with 140 degree water, selecting pots and pans, and selecting any heating options (in this case, heated dry and sani rinse). I’ll also be using some NOS cascade powder from 2008 that contains phosphates, which is the type of soap it was designed to run with. I’ll report back on how this goes. In the meantime, does anybody have any suggestions on what spare parts I should be looking at getting for this machine? Also, is there any sort of preventative maintenance that I should know about for these? One last thing; does anybody know how to tell the manufacture date on these hobart built KAs?

Rollermatic…
You are correct, the 21 series is the first of the reversing motor KA DW’s. If you still have those racks, I’d definitely be interested in purchasing them. Once I have more space, I’d love to take you up on one of those 17s as well, though that probably won’t happen anytime soon, sadly.

Thanks,
Thatwasherguy.

 

[combo52]

KitchenAid KD series 21 and 22 dishwashers

These had a newly designed pump that was extremely rugged. It was a huge improvement over previous KitchenAid dishwashers, it was the last pump in an American dishwasher to have a stainless steel motor shaft, the motor had ball bearings, of course also had an extremely rugged drain impeller made of stainless steel. It looked like a small garbage disposal, and it was not damaged by glass and foreign objects like previous KitchenAid designs and most other brands.

The racks tended to rust quite a bit faster in the 21 and later machines because as Tom pointed out, there’s only one final rinse, the fact that this couple also rinsed their dishes made this worse. It was actually a good thing that their water was only 120. This machine was designed for 120 water incoming temperature Hotter water would’ve caused even more rusting with the soft water they had.

This dishwasher was not any more water efficient than many other dishwasher of its time, in fact, the reason they went to one final rince his KitchenAid was trying to compete with the European dishwashers that were starting to hit the market in the US.

This was a very popular dishwasher in the DC area as we’re all KitchenAid, we worked on thousands of them over the years. We still have an entire wall of parts covering almost all KitchenAid models. If you need any parts and get in touch, send me an email or a message on this site.

One of these years. I’m just gonna throw all the parts away because we find there’s no demand from our customers anymore as they’re almost none of these machines left.

These were very well built machines you’ll enjoy working with it. It’s not particularly one of the better cleaning dishwashers of this time. Unfortunately.

Maytag whirlpool and GE all out cleaned this dishwasher D&M Kenmores even gave it a run for the money and probably outdid it, however, Non outlasted the KitchenAid.

Note by supplying this machine with 140° water the pots and pan cycle is significantly less effective because it’s shortens it a good deal this machine was engineered to run on 120° water. You can supply it with 140. It won’t hurt anything, and it will save a little bit of electricity Running the machine. Of course it depends how you heat your water whether you save energy overall. All dishwasher starting in the mid 80s were designed to run on 120° water and boost water temperature as needed for great results and great drying performance.

John L

 

[rollermatic]

i'll gladly give you racks for your machine

if i have the one's you need. just pay for shipping please, or better yet you could come get them and also take hone a 17 series!

are the racks the same as those for the 18 and up models? if so i have them.

 

[thatwasherguy]

Thank you so much!

According to what I’ve read on here, the 18-23 series machines did share the same racks. The only real difference was the rollers on the upper rack on the 23 series models, but those can be swapped out. I’ll send you an Email.
Thanks,
Thatwasherguy.

 

[rollermatic]

or

you can text or call at 513-501-4801 but i'm the first to admit i only check email about twice a month and text about once a week. and my messages on my phone are usually full.

older i get the more of a recluse if it doesn't involve immediate family and a couple friends. and i hate social media in general!

but i will get back to you and you can have the racks. i've probably got about 50 dishwasher racks out in the barn, mostly kitchenaid.

 

[thatwasherguy]

Awesome! Thank you so much!

I’ve been thinking, and I’d like to take you up on one of those extra 17 series KitchenAids as well. Just let me know when you want me to come get them.
Thanks again,
Thatwasherguy.

 

[thatwasherguy]

I finally got it powered up today...

And I have some good and bad news. The good news is that the rapid advance timer and controls appear to work perfectly, and that the machine does run. The bad news is that it sounds like the bearings are grinding on the pump motor. I think there may be some crap in the pump as well, but the rattle stays regardless of weather or not the machine has water in it, so I really do think it’s bearings. Is there any way to fix them, or will I have to source a motor? Either way, I’ll have to rip the entire bottom end off of the dishwasher, so I’ll probably need all new seals and such. The gasket around the detergent dispenser is also very deteriorated, as is the door gasket. I’m going to download the KD-21 series service manual so that I’ll know what I’m up against, but this is probably going to be a full restoration. I’ve never restored a dishwasher before, so I’m confident that this is going to be a fun learning experience for me.
Thatwasherguy.

 

[jil1000]

Beauty

Congratulations! I just scored one of these a few months ago new/unused in box and I’m pretty excited to use it!

 

[combo52]

KitchenAid 21 and 22 series pump and motor

This is a very easy pump and motor to work with the entire assembly lifts out of the machine from the inside after you disconnect electrical and two hoses underneath.

These motor and pump assemblies are still plentiful. I would just get another 21 or 22 machine for parts, we still have lots of these motors laying around in fact lately I’ve just been throwing them away it’s just no demand for them anymore.

While you can theoretically put new bearings in the motor, I’ve never bothered trying. It’s easier just to change the motor the earlier Hobart style motor comes apart more easily than the later Emerson motor.

The thing that makes KitchenAid pump assembly so rebuildables there’s no pot metal in them in it. They use stainless steel motor shaves so they come right apart, but once the motor bearings are shot, you really should just look for another motor.

It’s not uncommon when you find a dishwasher with rusty racks to have all kinds of other problems all that dish pre-rinsing took its toll on this machine, it was common back in the 60s and 70s for dishwashers to last as little as four years because of the caustic phosphate detergent.

John L

 

[rollermatic]

i just found the service manual

for the kds-21.

would you like it?

also will get with you later on getting together for you to pick up racks and a kds-17 if you like. sometime this summer. just had surgery and recuperating.

 

[thatwasherguy]

Thanks for the input everyone!

jil1000...
Thanks for the compliment! That’s awesome that you got one NOS. Is yours a Hobart built model like mine, or is it one of the later Whirlpool built models?

Combo52...
Thanks for the input! I’ll definitely be letting you know what parts I need for it. As of right now, I need to compile a list of everything I need to replace, and everything that would be beneficial to have spares of. I figured that it was going to need a total rebuild just based on how it looked in the pictures.

Rollermatic...
That would be fantastic! Thank you so much! Don’t feel rushed on anything. I’ve got about a million other projects to work on in the meantime.

I’ve decided to run a performance test on this machine as it currently stands, bad bearings and all. I semi-unclogged one of the jets on the upper arm, but outside of that, I have done nothing to it. I haven’t even cleaned the filter. We already know that a new KDS-21 on Pots and Pans could handle dried on mustard, ketchup, and barbecue sauce with no problems, but can a worn out KDS-21 do the same? I’ve also got some dirty vases, a frying pan with egg cooked onto it, and a couple of other things to throw in as well. It will be running Cascade Complete + Oxi liquid detergent in both compartments, no rinse aid, and will be fed approximately 120 degree water from an elevated 5 gallon bucket with a spigot attached to it. The cycle will be pots and pans with sani rinse and heated dry active. Place your bets on how it’s gonna do. I should be able to do the test tomorrow, by which point the ketchup, mustard, and barbecue sauce will have had over 48 hours to dry.
Thanks,
Thatwasherguy.

 

[combo52]

When you use the pots and pans cycle,

Some in each of the closed cups, and then you put some dress directly on the dispenser or door for the first wash.

John L

 

[thatwasherguy]

The cycle just got done...

I had to run the test wash a little differently than I had originally planned. The water bucket from one floor up proved insufficient to provide enough pressure to properly fill the machine, and the drill pump that I had as a backup plan decided to leak on me, so that was out as well. I would up just running a rinse/hold cycle, and filling the machine from a bucket of hot water to roughly the water level that I saw from the hose cycle. I also wound up accidentally skipping over the first wash’s heating cycle by pressing g the rinse/hold button instead of sani rinse once the door was closed, causing me to stick the drain hose in the tub, and press cancel to reset the timer. That probably added about 5 minutes to the first soak of the dishes, which I doubt will make or break the performance of this machine. I also didn’t measure the soap at all, nor did I measure the amount of food that I stained the dishes with. That said, this test is not meant to be a scientific anything, it’s mostly just for my entertainment, and to see if this worn out old dishwasher can still clean a load of dirty dishes. I’ll post the results shortly.
Thatwasherguy.

 

[thatwasherguy]

Here they are!

I arranged the bowls exactly as they were in the before pictures. The only thing it really seems to have struggled with is the vases. I’m not sure if that was due to their odd shape, or the fact that their dirt wasn’t food-related. At any rate, they certainly look better than they did when I put them in there. The thing that I was really impressed with was the egg. Every other dishwasher I have ever used has always seemed to struggle with removing egg. Apparently, thats not a problem with the KDS-21. I plan to do a couple more cycles before I start tearing it apart, and I’ll definitely be posting the results of those here.
Thanks,
Thatwasherguy.

 

[jil1000]

Bowls

They look KA washed! I actually have 3 models. A KDS18, KDS20, and the Monterey 21 like yours. The 21 was a random scrolling Marketplace find. A investor who was gutting a home close to me found it in the garage. Right place/time kind of thing. I have a small obsession with KA appliances- specifically the dishwashers and 1927-34 mixers. lol. I only have two mixers though! And have scaled back my dishwasher collection to the 3. Also scaled down the washer and stove collection, but that is for another thread. I am excited for you and your dishwasher. It is such an amazing machine to use, and to enjoy!

 

[thatwasherguy]

Wow! That thing is beautiful!

That machine is absolutely immaculate! I expect that you will get to enjoy many years of sparkling clean dishes from that beauty! It’s funny that you should say that you found it from randomly scrolling marketplace, because that’s exactly how I found mine! In fact, the former owners told me that they had just contacted a scrapper to get rid of it right before I messaged, so I definitely wasn’t a minute too soon. Your 21 appears to be a Whirlpool built model. The Hobart models didn’t have the ‘sure temp water heating’ and ‘whisper quiet’ writing on the control panel. They also had ‘all China/crystal’ written above the cycle selections, and said ‘light wash’ instead of ‘light/china’. The only real difference between the two is that the Whirlpool models (unless they are early units) use Emerson motors instead of the Hobart ones, and have some extra sound deadening, so they run quieter. I agree, vintage KA anything is amazing. I was not prepared for a dishwasher in such rough shape to clean so well. It makes me wonder how it’ll do once I restore it. So far, I absolutely love it. It’s shaping up to be everything I had hoped for in my dream DW. By the way, you mentioned that you also own a KDS-20 and a KDS-18. Between the three machines, which one do you feel cleans the best, and which one is your favorite?
Thatwasherguy a.