Eating in America and around the world

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earthling177

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An article on the NYT talks about Julia Child and how she changed the way people eat in US but not enough -- http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/02/magazine/02cooking-t.html for more info (or click the link below).

While I do agree with the author, who mentions in his article that people are buying more and more food and cooking from scratch less and less, I do have a lot to nitpick. Yes, I'm sure you are all shocked... ;-)

Let's just start by the sentence (paraphrased) "you can tell how thin a population is by how long they spend cooking". Really?!? I'm willing to bet that Italians spend more time cooking than people in France, Germany and the Netherlands. And yet, those people are thinner on average than Italians. And, before anyone says anything, I find that all those countries have equally delicious foods. To me, anyway. Brazilians spend way more time than Americans cooking, but less than Italians, but in general, Brazilians are also thinner than Italians.

He also mentions that "the time and work spent in cooking, as well as the delay in gratification built into the process, served as an important check on our appetite. Now that check is gone, we're struggling to deal with the consequences"... that does make a "nice" statement, it does feel good to say it, no? Go on, try it yourself, say it a couple of times out loud, I'll wait. No, really, say it like you are talking down to someone you don't like. Yes, just like that... doesn't it feel good? It's a nice statement to have to swing around like the proverbial dead cat: "You are fat because you are not as virtuous as I am or, in any case, as you should be! You shameless person, be virtuous!". There, go on, tell everyone! Even if you're not thin, surely there are people who are less virtuous and deserving of being called on it. Like I've mentioned before, it's more often than not all about how virtuous one is and everyone else is not, find your place in the hierarchy, even if you're not the most virtuous person, there are millions of less virtuous people after you in the line.

But take the same countries the author is extolling the virtues of -- I'll give you a minute or so to think about it -- you don't have the entire family cooking and, by far, usually the person cooking is the heaviest, oh, heck, I'll say it, the fattest person in the family; in fact, the tradition in many of those countries is/used to be that the wife cooks, the husband makes the money. And yet, interacting with the food, with all the supposedly smells, sights etc does not make the wife a skinny top model. I wonder what's wrong with the science behind the statement? Maybe there was no scientific research on it, or if there was, the data collection or analysis was, how do they say it in English, flawed?

Another fake science in the writing, you ask? Oh, sure, Americans are eating so much that we added another half meal to our diet! -- geez, half a meal!, I tell you! And yet, in many of the thin, virtuous countries, they have at least two or three meals more than we have here. If anything, it seems to me that we in America are fat precisely because we have too few meals, when we have a meal we don't stop to savor the food, we grab it and hurry in front of our TVs or desks at work and eat without paying any attention, so we only stop when we're very full. Countries where people are typically thinner start with a light breakfast, have a snack in the middle of the morning, eat a very decent lunch, another snack in mid-afternoon, then eat a decent dinner, and may even have another snack before bed. Consequences? They are not always feeling like they are hungry and/or starving, so they eat less than half at each main meal than we do here. I can tell you point blank that I have never ever been able to eat two large pieces of meat and a pound of pasta when I lived in South America -- I routinely finish a plate just like that (Veal or Chicken Parm with Pasta, for those who are wondering) here for dinner after having had lunch and possibly even breakfast. That dish alone would be three meals in Brazil.

I think one of the things that he is right about is that stuff that used to be a treat, because they are so much freaking work to make, like french fries, are now easy to get. He may be also right that foods that are made in an industrial setting (and no, I'm not removing restaurants from this) do tend to use ingredients that may facilitate processing, consistency etc and those ingredients may contribute to weight gain and be detrimental to one's health.

But the jump from there to how fat you can get is more than wrong. There's no touching the fact that in America, it's not about loving food and having pleasure in eating, you are a freakish moron with no self respect or willpower the moment you are caught eating, it's as bad as if you were having sex in front of everyone in the restaurant. God forbid if you ask for a regular soda instead of diet if you are packing 3 extra pounds on you! You should have been asking for water to begin with! Even if you dieted seriously for 4 weeks and this is your first time in a restaurant with a regular soda, we don't care! Food is not to get pleasure from, pleasure is for sinners! Are you a sinner? Why aren't you working on your desk to begin with? Virtuous people work hard, not smart, and they certainly can't afford to stop working for one hour a day to freaking enjoy food, no sir, they should be shoveling their gruel as fast as possible and be thankful they even have some grub with an economy like that, which, by the way, is bad because of sinners! Like you! Who like to eat! I'll betcha that while you're there eating enjoying your food, you're thinking about when you're gonna have sex, aren't you?!?

Meanwhile, in other countries, people enjoy their food, which means they can eat a bit less because they can still have more ice cream, or cake, or pie, tomorrow, or even by the weekend, so it's no biggie if they don't feel like they have to have it now. Also, if they are having it, they are not ashamed of it, so they can have just a bit of dessert instead of thinking "Oh, well, I fell off the wagon already, no point in feeling shame three times this week, I might as well have half a cake or an entire pint of ice cream", which, unsurprisingly, is probably what makes people gain weight... even if they spent hours making the thing from scratch, like all the goody-two-shoes supposedly did.

I can tell you that in countries that it's not a shame to eat, people can easily tell you how many calories stuff has, even if they don't know that an humongous 24-32 ounce ice cream shake with chocolate syrup and whipped cream on top at Cold Stone Creamery has about 1,500 calories or so, they know that it has more calories than a meal should have and, while it's OK to have it once or twice a year, it's not the kind of thing you should be getting everyday as a reward for dieting so hard. Also, I've never seen anyone out of US holding a cookie that is 6 inches in diameter getting surprised that it has over 800 calories -- we are not so removed from food that we don't know that it's flour, sugar and butter, so it's gonna pack a bunch of energy.

And I'll tell you a secret, sometimes some of us would be thinking about sex while we were eating, but then again, people think nothing of nudity on TV in many other countries.

I think all this Puritan repression on anything that is not work is what causes more problems than it solves. Once the undertones of "you should be working for you food" and "if you enjoy all the food you eat no one will give me credit for being virtuous and thin and restraining myself from eating" disappear, I expect the population will get back to a healthier form. Maybe they won't be size zeros, but being a size zero is not healthy either. Haven't you heard the latest research, that being a little bit on the heavy side is healthier?

Here, I have ice cream, chocolate cookies, yellow cake and, oh, bread and chicken-fried steak in the fridge, what are you having for a snack? :-P

 
A lot of assumptions and claims are made in this NYT article (and your response) without references to back them up. E.g. I've read that the French spend more time cooking than any other population on Earth. I've also read they are, on average, the most overweight in all of Europe. Etc.

At least in my experience Americans fall into two distinct categories: old schoolers who cook, and new schoolers who tap their fingers on a microwave twice a day because they can't wait 4 1/2 minutes for their food to be irradiated.

It's just two different approaches, eating to live and living to eat. Food is one of the most basic and fulfilling pleasures in life, so IMO people should definitely live to eat. That doesn't mean overeat.

Another factor is cost: many Americans today have very strange priorities. They'll go out and dump $5000 on a plasma screen TV, and then claim that cooking meals from scratch is too expensive. They'll spend four hours a day watching Jerry Springer, and then claim cooking meals takes too much time.

I've never understood this. I mean, I literally cannot eat at a McDonalds, Carl's Jr or Taco Bell without feeling sick to my stomach and winding up with severe diarrhea, and I'm astonished how any food with that much fat and salt can be so utterly tasteless. Why do people choose to do that to themselves?
 
Jeff, I think you hit the nail right on the head buddy, especially around the oddball priorities that some Americans seem to have where such a basic need is concerned.

I think there is another group somewhere in between the old and new schoolers that you mention that I call the "eat out" crowd. They eat out, take out, drive through or whatever the hell you want to call it, because it's faster, easier, cheaper (so they think), and they wind up with meals that are probably double the calorie, fat and salt intake than they should be eating. All in the name of convenience, because that microwave just isn't fast enough!!

Me, I cook almost every night. I'm certainly not a lightweight by any stretch of the imagination, but not bursting out of my clothes either. At least I know what it is that I'm eating and know that it is good stuff, never pre-packaged or processed stuff. My biggest compromise is a rotisserie chicken from COSTCO. MMMM GOOD!
 
Overweight Europeans

Where did you come up with, "And yet, those people are thinner on average than Italians"?

The slimmest nation in Europe according a WHO survey, is Italy. There the average index, which is based on a person's weight in relation to their height, is 24.3.

According to WHO guidelines, anyone with a BMI of between 18.5 and 25 is a healthy weight. Anyone less than 18.5 is considered underweight.

Between 25 and 30 is overweight and anything over 30 is classed as obese.

The only other countries with an average index in the healthy range are France, Turkey, Austria, Romania, Poland and the Netherlands.

The UK's average index is 25.4, putting it into the overweight category. The fattest country in Europe is Malta where the average resident has a BMI of 26.6.
 
not a lightweight by any stretch of the imagination, but not

Any time Andrwe ya want to, I'd have no complaints lol.

I have friends who refuse to make even simiple meals, say they don't have time, don't know how to cook (and won't learn) or say it costs more than eating out. I still think I can make meals cheaper over time than eating out every day. And they eat a lot of processed foods. All are diabetic. As extremely hot as it has been, I've been enjoying my evening meals consisting of whole wheat pasta salads made with lots of veggies and some cubed turkey or ham I have bought at the deli case. I usually take my lunch too, which is usually sort of baked or tosseed whole wheat pasta with veggies and a little meat of some kind of brown rice, red beans, and a little bit of lite sausage, carmelizeed onions and spices. Even having those llunches has me lose weight slowly vs. eating lunch out, then I gain weight--or eating leftovers from conferences at work too has me gain weight.
 
I rarely eat out and use fresh,not frozen ingredients to cook.I make a fresh salad from the veges we grow here on the campous and buy most of my red meats localy where the local farmers butcher cows and hogs for the market. They are all garden fed without any chemicals and butchered while you wait.I have a nice bottom mount freezer Amana 22 and do blanch fresh veges for freezing but,because one of our colliegs has smoke house here where he goes out for about a month up as far asAlaska to catch his fish( Ahi,sword,tuna,and salman)and brings it all here to smoke and sell. I always get fresh ahi,salman and tuna from him and freeze it in seperate packages marked and dated.That way I can rotate my stock and not lose any of it to frost bite.I also get my pasta localy at a natural food store and some of my fruits from local farms here.I have already lost 125 pounds due to my change of diet.
 
Jeff mentions that both the article and my response have no references to back them up. Precisely my point. One can find almost anything on the intarwebs to back whatever claims one wants to make.

Kenb also asks about where did I get that Italians are not as thin as other Europeans, because he has data from WHO that the average BMI for Italians is healthy. There lies the rub -- first, it may not make much sense to average BMI. Maybe if we're talking the mean or mode, but even then. To compound the problem, if one looks for info on people's weight, one country is thinner, if one looks for info on BMI another one is thinner.

You can look at wikipedia (link below) and you will see that while BMI can be a quick-and-dirty tool for back-of-the-envelope calculations, it is very controversial for a variety of reasons, including it doesn't take into account water weight, bone density, fat, muscle etc. It's very common to see athletes who are in perfect health and not fat with a BMI in the "obese" end or elderly people who fall in the "normal" or "underweight" end of the spectrum and yet have more body fat than is supposedly healthy.

You will also notice that I mentioned in passing and jokingly, but recent research has been showing that people on the underweight side of the spectrum seem to have more health problems than people on the overweight (or even obese) side of the spectrum, when you consider only BMI -- this has been all over the news a couple of months ago. BMI has been more of a boom for health insurance companies, who find it an excuse to jack up the prices of premiums than actually medically relevant.

For the longest time weight has been a proxy for lots of things that change from time to time. If you go to a museum, you'll probably find a portrait or two or ten explaining how a few centuries ago, when it was fashionable to be fat because it meant you had money, food and no need to exercise, so people would pay the painters to put extra buttons on their vests, to pretend they were fatter than in real life.

Now, when anyone can be fat due to sedentary life-styles and easy access to calories, thin is in: you need to have time and money to exercise enough and afford the extra-expensive fashion that are only for thin people. Women's clothes are particularly warped that way, the same dress size will be size 12 for $50 or size one or zero for thousands of dollars, the more you pay, the smaller the number on your label. Word is that the same phenomenon is beginning to show up at expensive labels for men.

Back to the artists' tricks -- in the last few years it has been very common to airbrush people in magazines to make them look thinner than they are, a complete reversal from centuries ago. And then people started trying to look like the magazine pictures -- some people are now so thin that the airbrushing is to make them look heavier so they don't look as sick as they do in real life.

It's time we put a stop to this. Weight is not supposed to be a proxy for beauty or any kind of worth.

I eat more than some of my friends and, while I'm not thin by any means, they work harder than I do, they exercise more, they happen to be heavier, but they are not lazy bums. And I have friends that eat more than I do, and exercise even less than I do and they are thin as a rake.

Thin people are not always hard working virtuous people. Fat people are not always lazy bums. Some of the heaviest people I know cook everything from scratch from fresh ingredients. Some of the people I know who are the thinnest are always grazing from convenience stores and restaurants and some of them eat a lot more than the fat people do.

It's actually way past time we say things because it sounds nice and make us feel virtuous. It's time to remember that correlation does not imply causation -- people who are stressed out and self-medicate with food may get fatter and sicker. It might very well be that they have health problems because they are stressed out and one of the symptoms is they are fatter because they self-medicate with food instead of they get fat and then sick.

I would not be surprised at all if serious research showed that health and weight are independent, and what's making Americans sick is the high-stress level and hectic lives we tend to lead. It is definitely one of the few countries in the world afraid of the "V" word (vacations) -- a lot more countries around the world give their population 4 weeks of paid vacation, here one is lucky to get 2. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that what keeps Europeans healthy is that lunch and dinner time are sacred in many places and god forbid you asked anyone to work 60-hour week -- you are supposed to plan and schedule work to fit in the 40-hour /week workers are there, not pretend everything is going fine for 2 months than make everyone work overtime for 4 weeks of crunch to make the project deadlines.

No amount of fresh ingredients cooked from scratch will make up for the stresses we accept in our daily lives. And certainly authors claiming that we could be healthier if we ate like the Europeans would do well to remember that it's not what they eat or even how they eat (how many meals, if they get one-hour lunch everyday instead of eating at their desks). It probably has way more to do with bosses that assign them an amount of work that can be feasibly finished in the amount of time allocated, instead of "here's 3 persons-worth of work for you to do alone and, by the way, we need it in two days when the client shows up."

That's what I think. Unfortunately, I've been wrong before. Often.

Cheers,
-- Paulo.

 
The War Over the TV from the Frost Free Drive Through

World War II ttok woman out of the kitchen and food choices out of the stores. People simply agreed to concessions. The war ended and not all the woman wanted to go back home full time. The food industry had begun producing cardboard food to store in an American phenominom, the deep freeze. As more families became dula income households the television held more allure as a distraction for chidren and cheap entertainment for the working family. A generation grew up not knowing how to scratch cook. A genration followed that doesn't cook. Fast food and free pizza if its delivery takes too long has moves the family away from the table, conversation and dining. The majority of American have ceased to dine and eat. Chewing and swallowing is sensual and if its fat laden and redolent with flavor we practice too much sensualism. I doubt ethnic heritage has much to do with it once the new American Gothic becomes the standard.
 
~The majority of American have ceased to dine and eat.

I was "baby-stiting" some teenaged girls ("cousins") on the in-law side of the family as workers put in a new bathroom and their parents were at work.

In my free time I made a tray of stuffed peppers, oven-roasted potatoes and a salad. (I was a smart guy and brought my implements and the food itself). We all at together. My aunt (tia-politica) took me to the side and thanked me up-and-down. She said thay don't eat like that during the week and that the three girls all cancelled thier after-school activites to enjoy the meal. To them it was like a major holiday! Their mother said she has NEVER seen that happen beofre! I was honored....and at the same time thought about how good it was to have a stay-at-home mom who did not think it was a second-class thing to be home to battle dirt as her personal enemy and was not afraid of gas flames on a stove.

It scares me to think that boiling a box of pasta, for example, is considered work.
 
I would SO miss cooking. I can count on one hand the number of times I eat in a restaurant in a year. My friends love to come over for dinner, and do so often---and their kids are always welcome. I love the conversation and camaraderie.

I used to love going to bars and restaurants when I was younger, but now I don't enjoy them so much. I was in rock bands for many years and if I never have to go to another bar, it'll be too soon.
 

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