Feelin' Swank. 1963 Philco Stereo Console

Ultramatic · Nov 23, 2019

Another thread that needed to be rebuilt due to almost complete image loss. As usual, many thanks to our webmaster Robert for his help.

Images shown will have the original posted date.

11/19/2016

Come Monday, this baby is coming home to Brooklyn...

Feelin' smooth 'n slinky...

Ultramatic · Nov 23, 2019

11/20/2016

Voice of Music record changer. Supposedly it needs a stylus according to the seller. I already located a site dedicated to VM.

www.thevoiceofmusic.com/...

Ultramatic · Nov 23, 2019

11/22/2016



Well, it's home. Sort of. It's still in the truck. Damn COOP rules forbids bringing in any furniture after 5PM. Good Lord, what a long trip. The unit was located at Drums, Pennsylvania. A hamlet set beside very beautiful valley and mountain. They got hit with snow last night, so it was a winter wonderland. The sight of fields and trees glistening white in the sunlight was breathtaking. Thankfully all the roads were clear and dry.





I was blown twice into the emergency lane (By the wind you perv). Amazing cross winds yesterday along I-80. Talk about white knuckle driving.





After picking up the Philco (Christ is it HEAVY), I went to Arby's for a bite. Inside, I place my order, cashier says: "Your name sir?" "Louis". "OK sir, just listen for your name for your order."





I was the only customer there. Cue in Twilight Zone theme.





When my order arrived, "Sir, your order." Wait, he was supposed to have called out my name! Harumph!

A couple other truisms I discovered on my quest for swank:





1) I need driving glasses. I swear, the sign on I-80 read "Scrotum 5" instead of "Scranton 5".





2) I actually found "Honeyhole Rd". If I weren't such a fag I might had gotten excited.





All said and done, with a side trip to do some thrifting (mighty slim pickings) I got home 12 hours later. I'll post pictures later today.

Ultramatic · Nov 23, 2019

11/22/2016 vacerator


I almost lost my coffee,

but that was worth it Louie. I'm glad I'm not the only one on here with a different sense of humor. Glad you didn't make a wrong turn and end up in Intercourse Pa.
Near Kalamazoo, is a town named Climax.

Ultramatic · Nov 23, 2019

11/22/2016 kb0nes

Wait, what forum is this? pervs...

Louis, not sure your vision needs correction, you may just suffer from selective seeing

Awaiting photos of the inside of this treasure. I've been looking over schematics of it since you announced it (have to guess at the model though). Looks like it is pretty simple single-ended power amps. Doesn't appear to use the most common audio tubes that are in reproduction today though. They do seem to be common enough though.

Ultramatic · Nov 23, 2019

11/22/2016 panthera


Philco had great cabinet design. They put together some very nice pieces of furniture.

Their working innards were, how to put this delicately, hmm. Let's say they could have taught GE a thing or three about saving money in parts sourcing.

Use of a V-M is a good thing, as that's enormously more reliable (and I say this as a Collaro fan) and 10^20 easier to work on. At least.

This console probably has the (in my opinion very good sounding) 3-channel circuit using the 6GM5 tubes. Not the most common, but available in sets. Paid about 80$ with shipping for a matched set last year, other online stores have them as non-matched for much less. The others were OK, so I didn't bother with them. Definitely a recap and I always check the resistors because, as I noted, Philco used many different suppliers, some of whom weren't too awfully bothered about component quality. Sort of the Klingon approach to sourcing starships - lowest bidder always got the job.

Prettier than Motorola, easier to work on than Zenith and I'm partial to 3-channel and V-M, so looking forward to following the progress.

Ultramatic · Nov 23, 2019

11/22/2016 kb0nes


It does look like the 6GM5's have gotten a bit rare. The 7591's that were common in Scott and Eico and others are basically electrically identically but unfortunately (or fortunately?) have an 8-pin octal base. The 7591's are in reproduction now.

That "3-channel" circuit is an odd bird. Basically you end up with two single-ended amps driving the L/R bass blocked high range drivers, and a push pull "bass" driver.

The schematic I am looking at is the M-1741 model. Man I see a lot in there I would POoGE on... It would be interesting to make one of these sound kinda modern but I'd probably end up swapping all the speakers out.

Ultramatic · Nov 23, 2019

11/22/2016 panthera


Solved two problems with one stone, so to speak.

First, done right it cut hum.

Second, humans can not orient low frequencies. Using one bass speaker saves on money, distortion, some phase problems, etc.

I've seen projects (antiqueradio.org?) using 7591s to replace 6GM5s. You'd have the space for the adapter socket in a console, but I do believe the power out would dip a bit, no?

But, heh - this is a beautiful, beautiful stereo. I'm so glad it's found a good home.

Ultramatic · Nov 23, 2019

11/22/2016 LordKenmore


>That "3-channel" circuit is an odd bird. Basically you end up with two single-ended amps driving the L/R bass blocked high range drivers, and a push pull "bass" driver.

Actually, it's not totally odd. Maybe it is by console standards, but this speaker setup sounds very much like a modern sterero speaker + subwoofer combo... Admittedly, there are probably limits to this "subwoofer"--it probably won't go as low as a "real" subwoofer. Then, again, there are speaker systems with special, dedicated bass units in today's world that are labeled "subwoofer" but really don't have super deep bass.

>Second, humans can not orient low frequencies. Using one bass speaker saves on money, distortion, some phase problems, etc.

This is not entirely true...at least it's not true in the popular sense that you can throw a subwoofer where ever you feel like, and it will work. System integration/setup does matter, and someone I know who is an audio system professional (working with high end home audio) actually spells out acceptable locations for subwoofers.

Of course, on a console, the placement issues and system integration are pretty much taken care of by the maker. At least the driver placement on the console, amplifier choices, etc, etc, etc. The only issue is placing the console in one's home.

Ultramatic · Nov 23, 2019

11/22/2016 kb0nes


My referring to the "3-channel" system being odd was the idea that you have a push-pull output transformer in a totem pole between the two single ended transformers. It is only 2 channels but this in an interesting way to break out a mono bass output. I have never encountered a circuit like this, but bear in mind I have never had any interest in consoles, heck I have never owned a component HiFi receiver!. I have only ever done separate components.

I added my first subwoofer in 1984, and I have never used more then a single sub with a mono-summed signal. I do agree that there is no way to localize the bass signal, assuming that the crossover is low enough. I have generally crossed over my sub between 60-80hz, you can't tell where it is in that bottom octave. If the sub ranges up to 200Hz or so you can localize it, particularly if it is well off to the side. In this console I'd bet that the bass driver has significant output up to 1Khz, but it doesn't matter since all the drivers are within a few feet of each other.

Ultramatic · Nov 23, 2019

6GM5 vs 7591

11/22/2016 kb0nes


You should be able to do a direct swap between the two tubes seamlessly assuming you can adapt the bases. The data sheets for both tubes show that they are all but identical in most every way. The 7591 has some slightly higher capacitances between elements, but that is likely due to the Octal base, at audio frequencies it won't matter. Power output would be basically the same within sample to sample variations between different tubes. The amp is cathode biased so there is no adjustment needed. It would be best to use matched pairs of tubes in this amp. I'd measure the voltage across the 82 ohm R78 to check the standing no-signal current through the tubes, probably should be around 15 volts to correspond to a 90ma bias current in each tube (assuming they are balanced).

There are adapters that have a 9-pin Noval plug that will plug into the existing sockets and then accept the 7591's Octal base.

It looks like the 6GM5's are still available, but you are limited to NOS so they may be costly. The 7591's have been reproduced to keep all those Scott and other vintage hifi components humming along, so their pricing may be more reasonable.

Ultramatic · Nov 23, 2019

Good morning!

11/23/2016

NEVER to early for some SWANK.

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Ultramatic · Nov 23, 2019

11/23/2016

Twin bulbs above the record player.

Couple of issues right off the bat. The stylus is there (flips from LP to 45), but no pick up. Record drops from changer, but then tone arms goes back to it's rest and record player turns off.

 



Ultramatic · Nov 23, 2019

11/23/2016

The radio works.

Ultramatic · Nov 23, 2019

And now to the rear and the inards of the beast.

11/23/2016

Ultramatic · Nov 23, 2019

11/23/2016

"And who the hell is that whippersnapper???" Victor is not amused.







Ultramatic · Nov 23, 2019

11/23/2016 panthera


I suggest you leave the V-M off until you can sort it. It's overdue for a lube job, anyway. Things slide ever so much better and no force is needed with proper lube. I believe that tonearm can track at 2grams, which is a good thing.*

If you need help with it, I've got some good youtube links and a service manual for that series (or close enough). General advice you can get here from many of us.

The burning smell is probably dust. Still, you don't want to burn out a tube because a capacitor was bad (and did I see some Sprague black beauties? They were notorious back in the day.) Or, worse, a transformer.

So yeah, recap and check resistors for values.

That'll probably make the tuner happy. I farm out alignment work myself, but then we all know I'm an idiot.

So, again, congratulations.

Consoles versus stand-alone: Once you get past a certain point in level of quality, you're only imagining that you hear the difference. I've heard these Philco units when they were in mint condition (as were my ears, cursed with perfect pitch). Except for a touch of wow and flutter and a bit less separation (again, perfect pitch), it sounded every bit as good as my parent's Macintosh and Dual with a V15 II. Which I was forbidden to even look at.

The link is to a guy who recaps really fast and well. Of course, there's also the notorious Shango66, but some ladies find his language offensive. Personally, enjoy him.

*I'm well aware that cartridge doesn't track at 2grams, I said CAN, not DOES. Since it has to be replaced, anyway, it's worth looking into.

Ultramatic · Nov 23, 2019

Both of those

11/23/2016 vacerator


are beautiful. Do you know what company made the cabinet for the Philco? Drexel maybe?

Ultramatic · Nov 23, 2019

11/23/2016 classiccaprice


I'm starting to miss mine. I didn't have the space to keep it, but it was a great stereo. It will bring you a lot of happiness. Mine was featured on Retro Renovation a few years back. You can see the link below.

7 ideas to house a flatscreen TV in your retro interior - Retro Renovation

The recent invitation to readers to upload photos of their televisions and how they incorporate them into their homes yielded a bundle of ideas. Today, I want to spotlight some of my favorites — in particular, several that start with vintage furniture as a base for our big ole high def plasmas...

retrorenovation.com

Feelin' Swank. 1963 Philco Stereo Console

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