GE Filter Flo washer motor removal questions

[turquoisedude]

Well, actually more like a need to rant.... Canyon's getting fed up with hearing about this... LOL

 

So, I figured it was time to get something done with that '57 GE washer that I got in fall of 2012.  I knew when I got it, the machine wasn't running.  Last week, I spent the week down in Ogden so that I could some exploratory surgery.  The machine would simply buzz, then very quickly pop the breaker if I attempted to make the machine spin or agitate. 

 

I tried to be logical (a big change for me...LOL) in my diagnosis.  I disconnected the flexible pump coupler and tried spinning the pump manually.  Suprisingly, it turned smoothly so that wasn't the problem. 

Next, I tried spinning the transmission pulley in both directions to see if I could make full rotatations, simulating agitate and spin modes.  Well, by golly, I could!  Recall that the poor old 60 GE BOL washer tranny could be made to rotate manually to simulate spin, but not to agitate.   My conclusion was the transmission may be OK.

 

So that left the motor...  Not surprising that it may have seized up - I checked my notes on the machine and as per the grandson of the former owner, the machine had been in use until 1980 when his grandmother gave up her home.  The machine sat in a damp basement until I got it. 

 

I actually have a manual for the 57 GE washer, so there are reasonably detailed instructions as to how to remove the motor.  Per the manual, the clutch assembly has to be removed in order to take the motor out.  

 

And this is where the wheels fell off...  There is a drive hub above the clutch that is held on by a pin (I guess it's a roll pin of some kind).  GE makes mention of a special tool (GE part WH50X55) to drive the pin out.  Now, I did attempt to drive the pin out with one of my limited punches but I don't seem to have one that is the right size....

 

I did some searching for the 'right' tool - I found references to a Gemline tool (model TB665 - picture attached) and a set of punches made by a company I believe was called Bidwell and Wells in Orlando.  But do you think I could find the tool or specs as to the size of the punch?  Nope...  

 

I did some further searching for pin punches and what seem to be the best possibility is a set made by Wheeler Engineering used typically for gun repairs.  

 

Any thoughts or suggestions?  I will attempt to get some better photos of the clutch pin itself, if I can.  

 

The darndest thing in all of this is that I know I need to do work on the motor for the '53 GE as well, so I'll have to get that clutch removed also....  

 

In the meantime, I am trying not to drive myself too crazy with this dilemma!!

 

[Unimatic1140]

Hey Paul, yes I've had to deal with those punch pins as well and they can be a total pain in your rear panel.

Some observations:

#1 is the motor shaft frozen or clutch housing not turning? If yes than the motor has to come out to fix it, if no then it may be the external motor relay causing the issue.

#2 Any hardware store punch of the right size should work, that's what I've always used. You need to get a bright light in there and make sure your punch is just slightly smaller than the diameter of the punch pin. Also it can't be too small as it will go inside the center of the pin and expand the pin making it impossible to remove.

#3 You may want to try heating the shaft under the cap that connects the flexible pump coupler with your torch gently to loosen things up.

#4 You may have to drill out that pin

#5 Worse comes to absolute worse, you might be able to remove the spin tub and the outer tub so you have room to remove the motor and clutch without removing the clutch first. Although I'm not sure if that is even possible without seeing the whole assembly again.

Also the other side of the pin (facing away from you) might be easier to drive that pin out. If the motor shaft isn't turning that would make it difficult/impossible to get to. You might try using a vice grip on the coupler cap to see if you can get the shaft to move.

 

[combo52]

Removing a roll pin

These are usually are easy to remove, you just need the correct size punch and a good ball-peen hammer. Once the pin is out the aluminum pump drive should come off easily.

Then the fun begins as you take the clutch apart piece by piece.

 

[turquoisedude]

Relay

Robert, Jetcone Jon had also mentioned a relay as a possible fault, but I'll be damned if I can find one... I couldn't see any reference to one on the wiring diagram for the machine and I broke the ffff....fill flume taking the top off of the machine for a better look!  

 

Otherwise, the motor shaft does seem to turn but it's not 'loose'.  However, the clutch dome itself turns freely in both directions.  

 

I have a couple of motor and clutch assemblies from later GE Filter-Flo washers and it looks like those were mounted on a removable plate. Probably this is why... LOL 

 

Sadly the punch sets in the local hardware stores here are the same as what I already have (sets of 6).  So.... I'll be doing some on-line shopping this afternoon!!  

 

[combo52]

This Machine is old enough to have a motor centrifugal switch assembled into the motor [ like most machines ] do.

 

[turquoisedude]

Thanks, John.  That was what I had seen in the wiring diagram and schematic for this machine.  Ironically, this is probably what is causing my motor misery...if I could get to it.... LOL 

 

[Unimatic1140]

Yes checking the 1957 service manual I see there is no external relay, so the motor has an internal start switch. I've had to repair many of those over the last 20 years. All they usually need is contact cleaning and cleaning/lubrication of the sliding shaft.

Paul I remember clearly having problems getting that punch pin out on my '58 GE and it took me at least an hour to do if not more. By the time I was done I needed to have my mouth washed out with soap because of some of the words that came out lol.

Over my lunch hour I did some checking on my spare 1958 motor/clutch which should be the same as on the 1957. It seems that the cap hole size allows for 5/32" punch pin, however 5/32" is too big for the hole in the clutch rotor shaft itself. A 1/8" punch pin is needed to get through. I seem to remember having trouble because the 1/8" punch would go through the center of the pin. I wonder if there is a punch pin size between 5/32" and 1/8"???? 1/8" though is probably the size you need and you may have to heat the shaft to get the pin moving.

 

[turquoisedude]

OK, so I am not losing my mind... I tried a 1/8" punch unsucessfully also and had a very loud and profane discussion with myself about its maternal heritage.  However, you've given me a good hint regarding heating the motor shaft, Robert - thank you!!

 

I am thinking I may just pull the '53 GE motor right away if this works!  

 

[swestoyz]

It has been a long time since I did this myself, but I seem to recall what Robert mentioned about the 1/8" punch being a bit too small. I had to move the punch off center in an attempt to drive the pin on a later GE clutch.

A 9/64" drive punch would probably do it, but they are difficult to find (different from a centering punch).

Ben

 

[turquoisedude]

Well, I managed to find a 9/64" punch and I ordered it.  Unfortunately it will only get to me next Monday...  

 

Not to worry; I have the Lady Kenmore out on her back waiting for me to yank out her transmission...  THAT's a whole other story, though! 

 

[turquoisedude]

Newsflash from Ogden

I did it! I got the roll pin out!

 

I will post pictures soon but what seemed to work was letting the pin marinate in PB Blaster since last Sunday then alternately poundin the pin with the 9/64" and 1/8" punch.  Using the tapered end of a ball-pein hammer seemed to get the right amount of force.  

 

Now if I could get the upper drive plate off the motor shaft...  it's 'soaking in it' now.  Keep your fingers crossed!!

 

[Unimatic1140]

Just heat it gently Paul and it will come right off. I rarely bother with liquids when a torch does the job much faster, unless the heat will damage rubber or plastic (plastic mechanical parts are rare in these machines) parts. Did the 9/64" punch fit properly?

 

[turquoisedude]

Success!

Robert, you were right on the money with the tip about heating the hub. I did so and off it came!! Thank you.

I think the 9/64" punch loosened the pin. It is a round punch. It also wasn't quite as long as the 1/8" punch I had tried earlier; but that 1/8" is what got the pin out. 

Now, if I start whining about clutch hubs when I tackle the 53 GE,  please yell at me to remind me that I should know what to do... LOL 

 

[turquoisedude]

Oy, this is turning out to be "interesting"...  I can now completely understand why a Camco technician would've told the little old lady in Guelph who used to own this washer that 'the motor can't be fixed'.  Dude didn't feel like breaking his head getting the blessed thing out....

So as you can see, I've taken more of the whole clutch assembly apart than I had anticipated.  Fingers crossed that I'll remember how to put this all back together again!

For the moment I am stuck again trying to remove the shaft extension assembly from the motor shaft. 

Would it be safe to heat this for removal?  I am paranoid about burning or melting something...

 

[swestoyz]

I was thinking about this earlier over the weekend - glad you had success! The rounded punch is called a set punch, and typically those are useful to create a set divot in metals before drilling/machining, or also to driving finishing nails. They can sometimes mushroom a rolll punch. A driving punch is flat and helpful to do exactly what you were needing, and often times are longer as well. Something to keep in mind in the future.

I can't wait to see this beauty up and running again.

Ben

EDIT - after I posted I see you've made more progress. Gently warm the shoe arm (that's what I call it) with the torch and pry using a screw driver, side to side. May help to take some emery cloth or sand paper to the shaft before you start. Enjoy!

 

[turquoisedude]

Thanks, Ben!   I gave it a short heat-up yesterday, but didn't manage to remove it...   I was worried about damaging the lower (outer) clutch shoes by prying.   I also kinda ran out of gas so I'll try again when I get back down to Ogden again on the weekend.

 

On a more positive note, I had a feel around the transmission boot and it seemed good!  Still,  I'm not going to take that for granted.  

 

Also, while I have the clutch apart, are there any big red flags that I should be looking for that would indicate worn pads, slippy shoes, etc?  If I can figure out how to get this clutch back together again, I'm hoping I can figure how to fix that poor ol' Hotpoint washer clutch...  Yeah, I know, I don't need to start a 3rd simultaneous project!!

 

[swestoyz]

I believe it has been almost a decade since I did a similar job on the 3-speed clutch I had, so I'm glad the service lit was available for your '57 so I could refresh my memory on this fun procedure.

It looks like a conveniently located "spring retaining ring" requires "prying off" in order to remove the shaft extension assembly.

Good luck.  

 

[turquoisedude]

Oy-vey!  So that's what they are talking about... I read that part of the manual three times and still didn't get it.  

 

I will swear that GE wrote these manuals to discourage the average person from trying to fix their stuff....  LOL 

 

[Unimatic1140]

Keep heating Paul, I usually heat things up until I see smoke. Just heat the bottom outside of shaft and like Ben said pry up with a screwdriver. The clutch shoes are far enough away that heat shouldn't affect them. If you are concerned wrap the shoes in aluminum foil, but I wouldn't.