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58limited

58limited

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
2,209
Location
Port Arthur, Texas
This is a 60's era (guess) Magnavox console record player. No radio or 8-track, just an automatic record player. I just don't have room for this, and it doesn't match the style of the rest of the house. It plays 16, 33, 45, and 78 RPM records. The autoplay function works, just stack a bunch of records on the spindle and play them for hours. There is a 45 rpm adaptor too. The ID sticker on the back is faded so i can't read the model number.

The good: It works, it sounds good, its free.

The bad: Its not heavy but its big, so shipping will be pricey. There is a stained/ damaged spot on the sliding cover from a spill - see picture.

First pic: A shot of the Micromatic Magnavox record player. The diamond-shaped label in back says: Magnificent Magnavox Stereophonic Hi Fidelity with 10 Year Diamond Stylus Warranty.

If no one wants this, I will not throw it away. I might take out the electronics and put them in a smaller cabinet that matches my decor.

1-11-2009-14-38-22--58limited.jpg
 
Don't toss it!

I have a larger version with AM/FM radio, but similar turntable etc. It is excellent for playing old 78's. I use a more modern turntable for LP's, as the conical stylus of these old changers can't match the response of more modern elliptical stylii. But it is still a well made, good console.

Of course I don't need a second automatic console but anyone who wants to play 78's from the 30's to 50's should look into this machine.
 
I've got an almost identical model :)

The one I have though has an AM/FM tuner in it though, but it's the exact same cabinet, but with a redder looking finish to the wood, and a little more modern appearance. It's a great sounding stereo!
 
I actually just picked up one today! I'll have to post pictures later, similar changer with a tuner... The stereo works great, but the player has some issues. It would definitely be great for someone.
 
"as the conical stylus of these old changers can't match the response of more modern elliptical stylii"

Yeah, very true. Don't use an elliptical stylus on shellac, it'll destroy it. I would highly recommend NOT using a conical stylus for vinyl since it does induce significantly much more wear and tear than an elliptical/line contact/micro-ridge stylus. Also, the use of rubbing alcohol is fine for vinyl, but a big no no for shellac. I didn't find out that bit of info until a few years ago even though I can't hear a difference on the shellac records I used alcohol on for many years.
 
Elliptical stylus versus conical-In the radio station business-conicals are the most desirable in the times when radio stations DID play records-Why?Elliptical styli would tear up any record-and the stylus as the DJ backcues the record for play-or uses the record for "scratching" to another record played on air.In terms of response-sound,there really isn't much diffrence.In terms of life for users such as radio stations-the conicals last longer and withstand backcueing.You could use the elliptical stylus in a prod studio-but had to post a sign on the TT NOT to backcue records on that particular TT.I have replaced MANY Ell styli from stations and told them to go to conical-backcueing tears up ell styli badly-and the record too.for cleaning records-DO NOT use alcohol or other solvents on records you can leach out the plasticizers in the vinyl.Use water base cleaners only.
Oh yes-get from the subject of styli-very nice litttle Magnavox TT only hi-fi-to bad its not closer.Long way from Port Arthur to Greenville!Wonder if furniture cleaner or polish for wood furniture could clean out the spill spot on the TT well lid.
 
Actually, just about any stereo LP stylus could be bad for 78s. The groove is much bigger on a 78, and a modern stylus is simply too small. Proper sound and life from a 78 depends on a stylus engineered specifically for the job.

Conical styli may or may not be worse for LPs. I've heard arguments that go both ways. A big issue, I think, is simply the level/quality of the cartridge in question. A Denon 103 will be better than whatever they toss on the Crosley retro-look trash sold at Target.
 
Yes-very true-Styli for LP's ARE NOT interchangeable with those needed to play 78's.most audiophiles and--radio stations that played 78's had a separate headshell and cartridge for 78's or even separate TT's with the appropriate cartridges and styli for 78.A couple of radio stations I knew of had extensive 78 libraries and the TT's and cartridges-styli to play them-both for production work and on air work.
Yes quality of cartridges can make a diffrence-usually in radio stations I found mid priced Shure and Audio-Technika cartridges in their TT's.Since the stations had hard useage expensive cartridges were a waste of money for them.most station owners and managers aren't audiophiles and the differences won't be heard over the air from most stations anyway.-Esp over AM stations.Yes many of those played records as a soruce of music material before the AMs went to "talk-discussion formats."
When I have visited stations today-you no longer see TT's and reel-reel tape decks-sometimes you no longer see cart machines(players that played endless loop tape cartridges sort of like 8-tracks-but these only had one audio-or pair of audio track for stereo,primary cue track-stops the tape when end of item played is reached-secondary cue-for alerting the operator the track is ending-or for automation systems to trip another program source)You still see CD players and computer audio filing and playback systems-they can be automated or used "manually" by a DJ-the DJ no longer changes records-he selects songs,commercials,or promos by a touchscreen menu on a computer monitor.Instead of purchasing records-stations purchase harddrive packs for their program computers from the music suppliers.you tell the supplier what type of computer program you are using,and music format-and they send you the drive pack that matches the program your station uses.
 
A bit more of my babbling about 78s

Making matters more interesting with 78s is that the ideal stylus varies. The generic size is about 3 mil, although some styli are slightly smaller. But groove size varied wildly through the 78 era. Then, a non-standard size may be useful now to avoid the worn part of the record. (A smaller stylus will fit lower in the groove, for example, and possibly play something that hasn't been touched except by dust since the record stamping machine did its job sixty years ago.) So really serious collectors have a range of styli on hand.

Other standards varied wildly, too. The oldest 78 rpm records often played at something other than 78--78 was the "final" standard. Records, except for Victrola style, are recorded with some sort of equalization for technical reasons. The equalization is pretty standard on most LPs--either RIAA or something close enough. But in the good old days, every record company did pretty much what they felt like doing.

So the really serious collector won't buy this Magnavox. He (or she--although most women seem to avoid this insanity, as much fun as it is) will buy this:
*A turntable with at least 78 rpm. Many collectors keep it 78 RPM record only, having a different turntable for LPs. If the collector is interested in the oldest vintage records, variable speed will be required.
*A collection of 78 styli.
*A way of compensating for the different recording equalization curves.

The collector's family might, after seeing this, buy him or her a padded cell in the nearest insance asylum.

Less serious collectors will make due with:
*a turntable with 78 RPM (possibly shared with LPs, after switching styli). The speed might be fixed.
*There would be one stylus
*The standard RIAA phono input, with slight playing with the tone controls to compensate for different recording equalizations.

And some do use older console units like this one.
 
78 Speeds

Some of these records were recorded at 80RPMs,but by the time electrical recording came in about 1924,they all spun at 78 except some foreign ones. A 3mil needle is usually fine,but for vinyl 78s a 2mil sometimes sounds better.In my 1935 Capehart it tracks with a heavy mangnetic cartridge,so I use steel needles usually the loud ones.The needle doesnt hurt the record if you change it after about 15plays.The sound is very good.Ive found Columbia records are very hard on needles and stay away from really worn records.Victor and Bluebird and Purple Capitals really play well.
 
OK, well yeah, very old 78's didn't have standardized grooves. I play my acoustic 78's on a Victrola with a tungsten "needle". I rarely play them on the Magnavox, because they actually sound better to me on the Victrola. Plus I don't like all the abrasive they put in old acoustic 78's wearing out the sapphire 78 needle.

The Magnavox has a flip needle. One side is 1 mil diamond (for LP's), the other is 3 mil sapphire (for 78's).

As for conical 1 mil diamond conical stylii ruining LP's. I don't agree. As long as the weight isn't excessive, and the record is played no more than once or twice a day (with an hour rest between playings), the conical needle may actually be less destructive than a worn or overweighted elliptical needle. That's because the larger edge radius of the conical stylus will just ride over the very high frequency features of the groove, leaving them intact, while the elliptical will contact them and if there's a problem it will also damage them.

I have a fairly large collection of LP's that were originally played on a Garrard automatic (KLH Model 11). When I upgraded to a Denon turntable with elliptical cartridge/stylus, they sounded much better and they didn't suffer in comparison with newly bought LP's (this was in the 80's, mostly, when you could still buy new LP's). The key is to avoid ever playing an LP with a worn out stylus - same goes for 78's as well.

If I was trying to restore old 78's, that is, transfer their contents to CD/MP3, yeah, I might look for a custom stylus/special turntable to get the best possible sound. But for casual listening of the collection the 3mm sapphire works just fine. Some of the old 78's I have are fairly worn out anyway so I'm not gonna waste time trying to get clean sound out of a compromised groove.

Little trick: I've found I can play electronically recorded 78's on the Victrola, but only if I first "condition" the tungsten wire with an acoustic 78. This puts a nice tip on the wire and the more modern 78's sound fairly good, up to the capability of the un-rebuilt orthophonic reproducer and folded non-orthophonic horn). But the older acoustic recordings generally make more sense on the Victrola.

I have heard clips of professional "restored" acoustic 78's, and the sound is rather amazingly good.

OK, all that said, I'll throw a bone. My Magnavox Imperial Micromatic turntable intermittantly fails to retract the tonearm at the end of a record with automatic run-off. I gather from my reading that this Collaro automatic uses a velocity sensor to trigger the retraction. Is there a simple adjustment, cleaning, or lube point to make it work every time?
 
In my entire life I have never heard of letting a record res

As the stylus passes over the record surface, the record grooves are subjected to a force of over 14 tons per square inch. This tremendous pressure results in the vinyl being subjected to temperatures as high as 300 degrees Fahrenheit. This momentarily melts the vinyl as the stylus passes by.
 
Yes,there is some truth to letting records "rest" between plays.At one radio station I worked at they did just that.since it was a top 40 station-all of the top 40 song records were on a large pegboard panel beside the DJ.there were several records of each song(45's)on each peg-the records were played in rotation each time that song was to be played.there is some stress to both the stylus and the record each time its played from the friction of the stylus going thru the groove.It is thought the record "Healed"somewhat if it was allowed to rest even several min between plays.for radio stations-the records did suffer "Q-burn"the frequent back cuing did wear the beginnings of some songs.when the record was that worn it was discarded.Then the station went to "carting" records-recording them onto a tape cartridge-so the wear was on the "cart" rather than the record.the production studio operator did the "carting"Overall that system resulted in less wear and tear on both records and TT's.the pegboard scheme looked very impressive though-and watching the DJ reach for the records to play them.
and other factors for 78's remember these were recorded in early days of recorded arts when the STUDIO set its own standard.there was no RIAA,or NAB.So anything went-that is why there were so many styli sizes and types for 78's and also styli for cylinder type records.shure makes a special cartridge just for playing cylinder type records.
 
I really dont think the average person really has to worry about the pressure,just keeping records clean and static free is the biggest help and no alcohol on any records.If you need to wash 78s use a little detergent in luke warm water and rinse well,no 409 or anything like that,Thanks Bobby
 
Magnavox phonographs are quite easy on records. They went to 3.5 grams tracking in 1962, way lighter than the competition. A problem today might be that the rubber cushon in the ceramic cartridge can dry out and get stiff which limits the compliance.

Nothing wrong with a conical stylus, especially for garage sale records. An eliptical stylus can get a little more sound out of the grooves if it's perfectly aligned and tracking very light and the records are perfect, otherwise it's murder on records.

Most record collectors use spherical stylus on a modern turntable.

Kenzz
 
"I really don't think the average person really has to worry about the pressure,just keeping records clean and static free is the biggest help."

Don't say that face to face to an audiophile; you’re liable to be lynched right then and there ;)

No stylus touches any of my vinyl until all of the procedures in the link have been taken into account.

If you're using a conical stylus, no need to click on the link. You already threw fidelity out the window.......

*Runs and ducks.....heading for the hills*

http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/ttadjust.html
 
Speed control

My 1956 Zenith Hi-Fi,has the record conpensator settings and the nice cobra-matic turntable with the strobascope built in,and a very light tone arm.Its a large floor model kinda south sea island look almost a perfect match for my 1956 R.C.A. color set.The sound is really pretty good.I hooked my c.d. player to the aux in the back and used a coupler.Tube amps sound so warm and pleasant. Thanks Bobby
 
I almost bought a mono 50's Zenith tube console with the Cobramatic tt and am/fm radio. A blond wood cabinet that also looked kind of south seas. I passed on it and later found the Magnavox from the same family that sold me the Victrola and a bunch of old 78's. 10 inch pop from early 1900's to late 40's, plus about 10 12" classical album sets - one even is an RCA Victor 12" set in translucent red vinyl. A special find for me was a 50's RCA Victor recording of "The Ballad of Davy Crockett". I remember listening to our long lost and worn copy of that when I was a kid. It's a kick to hear it on a good system now. Also found some 78's in a cabinet in the garage of this house after I bought it. A lot of Portuguese language records, from Victor and Columbia, plus about 10 "United Records" discs that have some delightful stuff on them. I had to machine an adapter (the hole is about 1-3/8" big) but the records seem to be in better shape than most because of the difficulty in playing them w/o the adapter. The band/marches generally sound particularly good on an old Victrola.

Although I liked the look of the Cobramatic I'm thinking the Collaro/Micromatic is a better tt.

Yes, the high frequency response of a conical stylus can't compare to that of an elliptical. But I agree that a conical is kinder to the grooves than a poorly set up or worn elliptical.
 
Anyone who plays records should be concerned about tracking force and bias compensation-if you don't have these factors adjusted properly on your playback system damage to both the records and TT will result.And not to mention distortion.the link above is correct in many things-but the response curves that elliptical is better than a conical is a myth.I saw it for myself on a NEW test record and fresh conical and ell styli.On older WORN records the ell can make the HF part better-it can track deeper into the groove to reach the least worn part of it.On any of the radio station setups I have to do-I was able to get flat response to 15Khz-the highest test frequency on Shure test records-and that commonly recorded on records.in setting up TT's the Shure test record and stylus pressure guage are essential tools.Still have mine somewhere.Most large radio stations had these.For adjusting the bias or compensation-there was a unrecorded portion of the shure test record-you set the bas,-anti-skating to where the stylus would stay in the same spot without moving.the scope method shown in the link works too.the scope can actually be more accurate.for the overhang adjustments-most cartridge makers included a guage for that purpose with the cartridge.Or you could purchase it from broadcast equipment suppliers-a more precise metal guage instead of the cardboard one the cartridge makers provided.Tonearm makers often had these guages too-and for their arm.you used it when you had to mount the arm to the tonearm board on the TT.Broadcast TT's were like that-you could use any type of arm with them.Russco,QRK,Technics,etc.SME and Microtrack were the most common broadcast TT arms.Ortifon was another.
and oh yes-I remember the "Ballad of Davy Crockett" from when I was a kid-had it on a 78.That would be nice to hear now from a record-I have it on a CD now.
 
Turntables

I certainly agree the 1958 Magnavox I have in the garage has a better turntable,than the Zenith.But!!!!!!!!!!!!! You know what it all comes down too. We listen to what we like,you canargue this needle B.S. till the cows come home.Its What Your 2 Ears hear.I doubt it matters to any of us if our records cool off,if I like it Ill play it 50 times Im sure no damage will occur that I can hear or anyone else. Look on E-bay Ill bet you will find your Davy Crockett record.
 
you can argue this needle B.S. till the cows come home.

When one is running a $2600 tonearm and $500 cartridge/stylus setup (not including the turntable/plinth), they tend to be very picky about their equipment :)
 
What Ever Blows Your Skirt Up

You can only get what was recorded on the record.Just because that kind of money was spent doesnt mean its the best,Ive heard some ten dollar cartridges sound better than 200.00 ones.Can you be so picky that after listening to a record that you truly enjoyed it.Like cooking a steak on a 700.00 grill master deluxe,does it really taste better? Probably not!! Charcoal would be fine. Bobby
 
Playing a record 50 times in a row with no pause will definitely cause audible distortion. I have a couple LP records that I loaned out years ago. In both cases the borrowers played certain tracks over and over again - and the records were basically ruined. Another time I was working with some housemates to dig a garden and clean up our house, and we played one of my favorite LP's repeatedly on my Garrard equipped KLH Model 11. That record was ruined as well (my fault that time). After that I never loaned out another record, and I don't play anything over and over without giving it a rest as described above.

Having collected more than a few used 78's it's not hard to tell which ones were favorites and played repeatedly without pause. In some cases it might have been failure to change the Victrola needle to have a new one for each play. In other cases it might have been just too much playing with a good needle on an electronic machine but without giving the track a rest. So far I have two 78's of Ella Fitzgerald singing "Cow Cow Boogie" and it's obvious that both have been damaged by bad needles and/or too much continuous play. It's such a great rendition I tend to think the latter.

I can understand the aversion to the somewhat meticulous and dictatorial approach some collectors take towards their audio recording hobby. Hey, that's their choice and they can do what they like with their stuff, just as you can with your stuff. I think I tend to fall somewhere in between, since most of my old 78's are used and already worn/damaged, but I most certainly would not dismiss out of hand the experience and wisdom of those who know how to get the best sound out of old records and how to keep them in the best possible condition.
 
No,I don't go along with the super audiophile crowd either-in one of my audio magazines-they had a review on the Clearaudio TT system----$185,000 just for the TT tonearm system-cartridge extra.The unit weights more than 600 pounds and stands about 5 ft high.This would be more expensive than my house and record collection combined.Don't need a TT like that-and don't think it would hold up to well in a typical radio station.I can agree on the cartridges-sometimes the more expensive models may not be better than the lower priced ones.I will have to say the audio hobby has just too much BS in some of it to suit me.Come on now guys-do we really need $185,000 Tt's just to play our records?or $579,000 speakers and amps to play them thru?I am just not convinced on these high priced components.These things are so expensive I would be afraid to use them.also do we need $25,000 patch cables to connect the components together-ditto with $25,000 speaker cables.
did this all start with the Maganavox TT only hi-fi?Thats all most need to play records.That unit would do pretty well against many of those high priced things.And its price is more reasonable-even when bought new.Oh---heres another thing I found advertised in the "audiophool" hi-fi magazine-speaker cable elevator-insulators-these look just like the insulators used on power company dist lines-and the books ad sells them for $180 for a set of 6.They try to convince you that resting your audio and speaker cables on the floor will do untold damage to the audio signal.The floor is an insulator-interconnect cables are sheilded-and speaker cables have too low an impedance to make any diffrence.Yet I am sure some folks have bought those insulators and think its the grandest addition to their system.Oh well if it make them happy.I am NOT convinced-guess been in the business too long.And what some of these folks pay for tubed amps!I suppose if you must put your speaker cables on the insulators-how bout talk to your power co lineman-probably will give you some old insulators to use-and for free!Maybe that audio magazine should suggest we erect utility poles and crossarms in the listening room to hold the cables-will get them off the floor!
 

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