Maytag 'Commercial' MVWP575GW Water use / long term issues

[pinkpower4]

Cycles and Electronics

I read the SQ suggested life cycle is 10,500. I have no doubt the older SQ will outlast the newer vmw, but the AWN432 and older mechanical models are NO longer available for sale. I believe that most older SQ properly used probably reach that number but not exceed it by the number of cycles claimed above, which seem unrealistic especially given the abuse they take. There just is no way the bearings and seals, transmission, etc. could last for five times the number of cycles even SQ says they’ll last. Maybe, I read that wrong. Perhaps, their true use is not that much. I can’t remember reading about one consumer model even much older that lasted that long with that much use. A typical consumer does not wash 24/7. So one would have to look at older models with same number of life cycles as being claimed above. They are far and free between and not without having had repairs done, the 70s and 80s models. Here you have EIGHT that have taken several SQ’s stated lifetimes of abuse in a few short years? They are the only eight I have read about. I had to have read that wrong. I apologize if I have.

The examples given above are also older models withOUT electronics. SQ has had issues with some of these, and that is only covered by three years except for the lucky folks who got in on the 10-Year deal.

There have been issues with the control board on some of the MT575 too.

I see no added value to the consumer for those who wanted the basic no frills all mechanical models. In fact, one has less options and control over cycles because of poorly researched government mandates.

I personally hope SQ figure out a way to at least keep the TC5 in their lineup, but I really wish they could bring the AWN .

Does the Cabrio mentioned above have the same upgraded parts? As far as I know it doesn’t come off the same line the MT575 does, but I could be wrong.

I do think the SQ transmission will outlast the one on Maytag but this washer is not the piece of junk you make it out to be. These two washers are no different than cars. Not everyone can afford a Toyota or may have that option where they live, but that doesn’t mean all Fords are junk either. The less expensive Fords just won’t last as long but they are still a good value for the dollar. This is worth repeating. Good value for the dollar today. There are NO washers made today like the ones I owned in the past. And I would choose a MT575 all day every day over the TR series, so I hope SQ has a plan B.

It is OK to give consumers information to make an informed choice, but this al or nothing approach doesn’t help the consumer make the choice right for them or their circumstances.

 

[combo52]

1 Year Old Maytag Commercial 575 Transmission

This is out of a MT 575 that we sold to a veterinary hospital, it gets run 10-15 loads a day, after just over 1 year it stopped agitating, you could hear the gears slipping in the plastic gear case. We put in a complete new transmission about 1 year ago and it is still working [ so far ]

 

My Brother maintains 16 of these commercial [ quality ] coin-op Mts in a nearby condo building, he has replaced many transmission assemblies, these are simply not commercial grade washers.

 

Hi Pink, The current SQ TC5 are the same as the AWN432, and should last even longer, SQ recently replaced the plastic main drive pulley with a metal pulley for example.

 

I do not believe my numbers of loads are exaggerated at all, we maintain many similar buildings, hair solons, health clubs etc and I always ask how many loads they do a day to analyze life spans failures etc.

 

Pink, how many loads do you think a commercial TL coin-op SQ in a coin-op laundromat run a day ? In theory in a 24 hour place they could run almost 50 loads a day, in reality it is going to be 15-30 and when people are paying $2-2.50 a load you know these machines are stuffed pretty full and yet these machines typically last around 10 years in commercial use with not much servicing.

 

Over the last 2 years a lot of the McDonalds restaurants in our area all bought the new TR3000, these are only getting 3-5 loads a day and so far no mechanical failures, but the grease that goes through these washers is amazing. They use these to clean the cloth towels they use to clean and the mop heads, they can not have dryers because the residual grease in towels would cause spontaneous combustion and cause fires.

 

John L.

 

[combo52]

[No message]

 

[pinkpower4]

I don't they will last five times longer...

Your post suggests that the SQ TC5 will last FIVE times loner than what even SQ states. That does not seem credible.

The real average user will get no more than fifteen maybe twenty years out of this TC5 washer. The little old lady, single guy, or couples may get thirty or more years out of it. The life expectancy is not so much years but how many cycles the washer is ran. In general, families do more loads of laundry every week than the little old lady. A family getting more than fifteen to twenty years is the exception and should not be expected.

The average consumer cannot replace the bearings/seals themselves or the transmission on that model. We canNOT get the parts for cost, have no maintenance contracts where that is covered, or can afford to pay someone else to do it because we are unable to repair the machines ourselves. With that said, I would seriously consider paying someone to repair an older, mechanical machine now that I see what is out there including the TC5.

I honestly don't know if *I* could replace just the bearing/seals on the MT575, but it looks easier. I think I could replace the whole outer tub assembly with bearing/seals probably for less than a repair technician would charge me just for bearings/seals. I do think I could replace the transmission. I will consider replacing those major parts especially if I get decent life out of these parts before they fail. I will weigh that cost versus what is available on the market at the time I need to buy again. Only the TR series was available when I made my purchase. It doesn't make "cents" to replace a washer that is working.

The main issue may be finding control boards for what seems to be a time-limited model later. Right now, it looks like 2020 is the last year folks can get this tC5 model. Electronics can and do fail. However, I like that the TC5 remains simplistic other than those two control boards--no ATC. I don't buy the marketing gimmick for that. Just another part to break on the Maytag.

I agree the Maytag despite its name is not commercial quality build. However, it is a better build quality than any other top load excluding the TC5 residential customers have access too.

I cannot think of any electronic devices in my lifetime that has been more reliable than the tried and true mechanical version. Less is MORE. The TC5 has electronics. It remains to be seen whether it will last as long as older models, but I do think it is the most likely to last the longest among top loads that can be purchased today.

For those who cannot get the SQ TC5, there are other options out there that will clean your clothes, but they are limited. One is this Maytag MT575 and the other is a budget model that is manufactured under different names (Amana, Roper, Conservator?) that has a dual agitator. It also has the vmw design but doesn't have the upgraded parts or the warranty of the MT. They won't last as long, but people don't pay as much for them. If consumer have the correct information on the products, they can make the best choice for them. Saying it's all or nothing does not help someone who cannot afford the SQ TC5 (they vary significantly in price where I live depending on the retailer) or where it is not available in their area.

Most importantly, SQ blacklisted Lorain Furniture for an honest review. Are there any examples where Maytag, LG, Samsung, Whirlpool, etc. have done this? Every one of those companies have SIGNIFICANTLY more negative reviews that are just as damaging. It's not defamation of character when it's based on truth. I agree, the washers available today are NOT the ones I remember. HE comes at an expense to our waterways, resources, and time.

 

[combo52]

Washer Life Expectancy

Hi Pink, You simply don't have any bassist's for your remarks, you say that the average home user will only get 15-20 years out of a SQ TC5, SQ even advertises that the average family will get 25 years out of it which is conservative by our experience.

 

I have said many times that SQs will NOT get repaired in the field if the main bearing and seal or transmission fail, however in our experience 90% of SQs will not have a failure in these areas in a 25 year home use situation. Probably only about 10% of MT 575 will get a new $300 transmission in the 5-10 year time range if it fails, after around 10 years few people will spend this kind of money just for a part either.

 

Life expectancy of a new washer is dependent mainly on number of loads washed and TIME, you can take any decent new car today and start driving back and forth across the country and pile up 500,000 miles with very few problems, yet the average new car today will be junked well before the odometer reaches 200,000 miles.

 

Since you won't believe someone with experience I suggest to go interview SQ commercial laundry owners and see how many loads a year their machines do, almost all SQ commercial machines have electronic control systems that keep track of # of loads run.

 

John L.

 

[pinkpower4]

You're suggesting the SQ is a family heirloom...

The old ones may have lasted 25 years, but that would be doing 420 loads a year or 8 or 9 loads a week. I think that is possible BUT so could the old Maytags. If the NEW ones with electronics can do that, that would be great. It would really put them ahead of the competition now, but what happens at the end of 2020? I don't care if the TR series does last me 25 years if it cannot clean the types of loads I do.

The vet clinic. I wonder if they used bleach in every single load? Wouldn't that decrease the life of that machine. So many variable in the examples you gave.

BUT you are saying these OLD ones can do 50,000 cycles. That would out live anybody if they bought this machine at birth. That part of your post is not credible.

I think the other parts of your post is good information.

In the end it doesn't matter to me. I just hope someone else doesn't buy the SQ TC5 and expect it to be passed down from generation to generation for 50,000 cycles without any major repairs. I think it is the most likely to last the longest of the toploads, but I still think the Maytag mv575gw is a good machine that will last 10 to 15 years.

I notice you did not address the blacklisting issue either. Cultural, social, psychological motivations, and personal motivations all play a role in what product we purchase. Durability and manufacturer reputation are two key components in this decision. Although Maytag does produce other inferior models, I have not seen any examples of them threatening reviewers and blacklisting people.

Not everyone has the money to purchase a SQ TC5 nor is it available in their area. Tell them the pros and cons and let them decide what works for them and their budget.

 

[DADoES]

 
A *very* rough estimate, I currently may do an average of 1.5 loads per week.  I don't usually run any given type of load until I'm nearly out of some sort of clean item that goes into said load ... except sheets/bedding and specialty situations such as a jacket or sofa/chair throws.  Raise it to 2 loads per week, 104 loads per year.  50,000 cycles is 480 years.

 

[brisnat81]

Hi John,

Have the seals been improved since the rayethon days?

Here they were sold domestically for residential use from 1990 onwards, badges as Kleenmaid. They only managed 10-15 years of life generally before the lower seal failed and by which time paint was peeling off the lid. The ones made from the late 90s onwards seemed to fail within 10 years.

Are they that much better now?

Cheers

Nathan

 

[combo52]

Washer Life Expectancy

Hi Pink and Glenn,   Reread paragraph #3 in reply#23, Time plays a major role as to how long almost any mechanical object will last.

 

An AW will not last 500 or even 100 years although we have seen many that have lasted 30-40 and even some going on 50 years.

 

I think the practical limit is something around 30-50 unless really major repairs and rebuilding is done.

 

The thing we do know is current SQ laundry equipment is very rugged and designed for easy repair of common problems, We also know that like many things today the quality control that goes into building new appliances has NEVER been better than today, then add in that the materials used in a new SQ are better any WP, GE or MT washer at any time in the last 60 years. Everything from the quality of wiring, rubber hoses, high quality finishes and on and on.

 

 

Hi Nathan, SQ redesigned the main tub seal in their TL washers around 15 years ago, the terrible seal that was used in the 80s had a lip type seal that ran on the aluminum basket hub, as you can imagine the aluminum corroded and wore pretty fast in many cases and it was all over pretty quickly when water got into the bearings [ Amana and the Amana tags had the same terrible design flaw ] and we all know how durable those washer were. Alliance raised the seal in the outer tub and added a SS sleeve to the aluminum basket hub, this type of seal design is extremely durable.

 

SQ in the 80s switched to a non porcelain top and lid on most models and the original finish did very poorly, we have yet to see even a tiny bit of rust on an Alliance built washer or dryer [ I have a SQ double stack dryer that has been sitting outside in the weather for 7 years now and it still looks like new, and if I find someone that wants a double stack electric dryer I could easily clean it up and sell it ]

 

Hi Pink, you asked about SQ dropping a dealer in Ohio because of tests they ran that SQ viewed as negative to their new washer.

 

In every sales agreement I have ever seen you are forbidden from disparaging the product you are selling, MT and WP would do the same thing, if you have a problem with this write SQ a letter, I have nothing to do with this.

 

In full disclosure I do not have any stock in SQ or any friends or relatives that work there.

 

John L.

 

[pinkpower4]

John, fair point.

This reviewer seems pretty unbiased in his comments, and I've not seen any other company take action. While something may be legal, there is a difference between exercising your rights versus morality. It is the difference between a company that has good leadership and management and one that doesn't. Legal just means SQ exercised the rights they could. Morality is distinguishing between right and wrong and good and bad behavior. The bottom line is if this product is THAT good, a company doesn't have defend it against one shop owner. It wasn't one shop owner. Anyone that washes work uniforms, kids' clothing, pet stuff, workout clothes, etc. can see the difference. However, SQ poorly choice to make an example of that person because they could. I really hope SQ has a plan B if the TC5 model cannot continue to be sold after 2020.

SQ's actions make others reviewers seem less credible. Are they saying good things about the product because they feel compelled to, or are they concerned about getting threatened by a company much bigger than theirs? Trust me. I understand. As a single parent, there is no plan B for income for my household. Sometimes, it is difficult to speak up and say the right thing because of fear of repercussion.

When a company responds this way, I don't have much faith as a consumer to take my concerns to them directly.

It is called being responsive to constructive criticism. Some of our best products have come from the failure of others. I am sure SQ will make something good of this. They just handled it wrong. I really want them too. I am tired of fixing and replacing appliances like I do socks.

While I think Maytag has the upper edge here, I wish that Maytag would at least upgrade the parts in their vmws that are sold at the big box stores. The real fix is to just go back to what works. They are damaging their reputation by continuing to produce inferior products.

GE made a stab at it with their direct drive, but it seems to get out-of-balance with normal loads and the spray rinse doesn't even land on the clothing?

It's like watching a pin-the-tail on the donkey game. No one is even close to hitting the piñata these days. They need to just take the blindfolds off.

John, I appreciate your detailed information. It was really helpful.

 

[pinkpower4]

Small correction...

I should have used the term posters and not reviewer. There are several regulars who offer good advice, but I wonder how much they feel compelled to say and what is left out for fear of repercussions whether they review, sell, or repair these products for a living. Anyway, my intention was not to restrict this comment only to people who are known to review products. This information and time it takes is sincerely appreciated . I balance it with other information like consumer reviews too.

 

[speedqueen]

There is quite a big difference between being service friendly and rarely needing service.

Whirlpool has always built products that are service friendly(yes even the old belt drives, just compare them to a SQ solid tub and tell me which you'd rather work on), however these new machines aren't build well at all. Even the "commercial" models are rather flimsy, they will *need* far more service than a Speed Queen will and far earlier. Parts cost means little unless one is doing the work themselves or there is an extra ordinary difference in cost between two parts from make to make. If a repair is to be done, the bulk of the cost will be the service call charge itself and or labor. If you have a VMW based machine, whatever ease you have in getting cheap parts will be negated by the need to have them installed more frequently.

You seem to get very concerned about the electronics in the TC5, but not so about the electronics in the MVWP575. Speed Queen has used almost the same control system in commercial coin-op machines for 30 years, they interface the motor and fill solenoids with relays, very simple technology, compared to the motor reversing and sensing systems employed in the Maytag, likely controlled by power transistors of some sort.

 

[pinkpower4]

Speedqueen, in a nutshell...

Please go back and read my posts.

The SpeedQueen TC5 would be my overall first choice. I do think it will last longer with fewer repairs (probably just a belt) than the Maytag 575. I think it is possible it will last 25 years for some folks, but I believe the average family will get 15 or maybe 20 years out of it before it needs MAJOR repairs. I have said that several times. There is no other top load on the market that i think will last this long as the SQ.

I think it is still probably a question of how long the transmission, bearings/seals, and control boards will last that will determine that on either machine. Most folks cannot replace the transmission and bearings/seals themselves. Not only do they pay more for the part, but they have to pay labor for someone to install it. The consumer can replace the control board, but the cost of it to the consumer is significant when compared to the cost of the machine and the TC5 has TWO. If you read the repair boards, you will see they are not without some issues with the control boards and other parts that break. This happens with all models (and you will see a lot more in the cheaper big box store ones!). I have also said, I haven't seen enough in regard to the TC5 models to concern me...yet. This model has only been out since May 2019? It does not appear to be widespread. I also think the SQ control boards will last longer.

The parts you are talking about in the MT575, I can replace myself. The actuator is also the reason this washer is not an agitub design. I'll take that tradeoff any day all day. They aren't that much.

Getting parts later for the TC5 may be a concern. It appears to be a time-limited model. The MT575 shares its parts with other models made for commercial use. It may cost more down the road to maintain, but it does look more likely I can keep this one going if i want to. Most of you on this board have access to connections, parts for cost, have the skills to repair themselves, etc. Not everyone does.

The examples I've seen of the MT failing seem to be where it was used for commercial use. Despite its name, it's not commercial build quality. I would not recommend it for a vet's office.
However, it built better than any other top load in the big box stores (SQ is NOT sold there). I think consumers can expect to see at least ten years out of this machine; I think some may see 15. It's not the piece of junk SQ focused fans make it out to be.

I don't think the TC5 will be a family heirloom that will be passed down from generation to generation and get more than five times the life that even the manufacturer has claimed. Even the older ones were not. I think this is misleading.

Why does SQ only offer a three-year warranty? If they are THAT much better, then offer a warranty that reflects that on the TC5 model. The piece of junk everyone makes it out to be comes with a FIVE year parts and labor. Why did SQ feel the need to take on a shop owner in regard to their TR series review? No one else has, and this person is unbiased in whatever brand I've seen him review. If their product, the TR series, was that good there was no need to defend it and threaten action against one shop owner. He is just one shop owner. If his claims were bogus, people would quickly figure that out for themselves. They aren't bogus, and that's why we have the TC5 today. It cleans work uniforms, kid wear, pet stuff, outdoor clothing, etc. better. For those who want premium clean with it, use the delicate cycle. It was a poorly thought out decision on SQ by management and leadership that were reactive instead of proactive. Just because it's legal, doesn't mean it is the right decision.

I do think the MT575 is worth the extra cost when compared to the budget models that have the dual agitator sold under different names (Amana, Roper, Conservator, etc.) because of the upgraded parts and FIVE year parts and labor warranty. I do think it is the second best overall top load on the market today, but I think it's the it's number one when it comes to cleaning performance.

It may use a little more water than the SQ, but it also has a slightly bigger tub capacity.

I agree there is a gap between the SQ models and the rest of the top loads with this MT575 seeming to fall somewhere in between for the mid-level price range and their budget models with dual agitator for the low-price range. Why no manufacturer has stepped up to seize that opportunity remains a mystery to me.

Bottom line. It's a Toyota family car versus a Ford. Both will get you where you are going. In the long run, SQ will be a better value for the dollar, but that doesn't mean Ford won't be a good value for the dollar. THIS Ford.

 

[speedqueen]

Just for the record, I want to post that despite my name here on this forum, I'm no Speed Queen fan boy. My name is in reference to my dream machine which I now own, a 1957 model A19, pictured below.

Now to talk longevity, I will agree that the modern TC Speed Queens will not be family heirloom, however in most service I think they will go a couple decades, but they're no center dial Maytag, that's for sure, and my old '57 makes both the 575 and the TC5 look like cheap Shark vacuums quality wise. But I must say it is the second least engineered device I own second to my 1958 Wheel Horse garden tractor which I believe the design process involved too much angle iron and a welder. It is a nightmare to work on and pull the motor/fluid drive assembly out, and the pot metal pumps aren't the least bit confidence inspiring.

Now to talk modern Speed Queen's downsides, they go through more belts than an old Whirlpool or the old solid tubs did(mine had it's original belts until a few months ago), however they are much improved compared to the Raytheon era. Transmissions are passable, far better than anything else on the market, but again they aren't like the solid tub models, the old Whirlpools(BD or DD) or Maytags. I do believe that surprisingly the electronic controlled models have had more reliability than the old timers could manage.

To sum up, they aren't the best ever made, but the LAST built anywhere close to how they are. The pinnacle of engineering in this field of design were the Maytags from the 1960s-2006 and the 1982-2010 Whirlpool direct drives.

I agree, the modern Maytag is a good machine for those who won't really use it that much, it offers a good value for money, but frankly so does the TC5. When one considers what household goods used to cost back when everything was like my 1957, it's amazing anything remotely comparable can be built for as cheaply as it is. Mine cost $350 in 1957 which is, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics equivalent to $3,273.20 today.

 

[supersurgilator]

I looked at the Maytag as well when it first came out. Its a nice machine, but I ended up getting a TC5000 last October. II have absolutely NO regrets at all for choosing this machine. I also wanted quality and something that will last a long time and I feel I got that with the SQ. Washing performance is great, and I like that it is a true old school washer. My one main concern about the Maytag is the hanging suspension system that modern toploaders use. I just don't trust it and feel it is cheap and could break causing the basket to go flying. The SQ has a very nice smooth spin.
I wouldn't really be concerned about finding parts for the TC5000 either since they still make the commercial on premise model, as well as coin op models that are very similar to this. Belts are about the only thing I really hear about needing to be replaced on these.