Miele announces future production 1st in USA

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appnut

appnut

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This is awesome news! If they are successful here and if the market eventually has a demand, I'd like to see them return to making bigger capacity front load washers and dryers again. As well as bringing back their upright and corded stick vacuum line.
 
It was bound to happen sooner or later. After decades of swearing up and down they never would, the family run company of Miele finally has seen sense.

Miele will never be more than a niche product unless or until they establish production and serious support in USA. Wages and compensation not just in Germany but all over Europe are only increasing. Then you have to pile on costs of packing up and shipping appliances to USA (usually Princeton, NJ) then distributed across nation.

Bosch long since has established manufacturing base in USA. Miele is now simply playing catch up.[this post was last edited: 12/8/2023-02:25]
 
Miele has had quite a shift after having some outside consulting, and more and more over the past few years.
Things like raising their prices, shifting a lot towards sale of stuff like detergents etc.

Now, the US has raised taxes on importing appliances. That made basically EVERYBODY shift towards US production.

Given the cooking appliances are the big US market for many manufacturers from the EU, shifting those first makes sense.

Fridges and DWs are just secondary in that equation - you don't buy Bosch appliances for the kitchen because their DWs are great.
You buy the Bosch oven and cooktop, and because you have those, you get the DW and fridge aswell.

The balance between new kitchen business and drop-in replacements is about 50/50 for BSH.

Another big thing is that with fridges, ovens, cooking, is that you can sell the exact same platform to the US as you do basically everywhere.
DWs for a big part, too.

Then it's just an ROI equation.

That's why a new laundry lineup for the US from an EU producer will likely never be a thing. Or at least not very likely.
As much as there is a considerable market share in the US, it still is a lower market overall for BSH and Miele.
Having a complete new base architecture for machines just for the US isn't worth it.
If there isn't enough development crossover to the EU, there is no financial sense.
 
But can you sell the same frame everywhere? Would seem to make sense to move production of large-bodied cooking equipment (as mentioned, 30" stoves/ovens) and whatever else goes well on those lines to the US and keep volumes high in the ROW for 24" production elsewhere.

Same reason that automakers are glad to ship smaller vehicles around while manufacturing what makes sense in each geography (no way they're moving production of large pickups from US/Canada/Mexico anywhere else; no way GM is keeping the Cruze (Lordstown, OH) plant open when they can just keep the plants in Korea humming cranking out smaller vehicles for the entire world.
 
It's one huge ROI equation.

Sure you can sell 30" ovens, ranges and 27" washers in Europe.
Manufacturers do.
Even our production makes stuff we don't sell in the EU.

But as long as the establishment of a new manufacturing facility plus higher wages are more expensive than making it in one place, shipping it, importing it (2 hugely different things accounting wise) and then distributing it, and that for the foreseeable future, you just don't.

Keep in mind Whirlpool for example made the first "typical" US FLs in Europe. Why?
They had development and production knowledge for FLs here in Germany. They did not know if they were to sell 10 or 10000 a month.

Then they knew, and shipping production away made financial sense.

If the US imports enough 24" ovens and washers so that that equation flips towards moving manufacturing, they will.

They wouldn't invest an 8-9 figure amount (can't imagine them setting up a full production for less) if it wouldn't make sense with projections of sales numbers and an ROI time of like - I dunno, 15-25 years?

They certainly will have configured their production to be a bit more flexible.
Running both 24" and 30" ovens on the same line should be perfectly doable.
You just switch which SKU is produced every now and then, the main construction is about the same.

The main "thing" about an appliance is the same regardless of where it sells.
A fridge is a compressor, evap, condenser and insulated container.
A FL washer is a tub/drum unit in a cabinet, a few valves, a pump and a motor.
Thus, developing and assembling them efficiently works the same.

The key "equation" of what makes that appliance that appliance stays the same, be it large oven in a range or a small wall oven.
You just change the parameters a bit.
 
New Miele Appliance plant in Alabama

I hope this works out for all concerned I am fairly sure they will mostly make built-in refrigerators and larger cooking appliances in this type of plant. There’s very little market for these appliances in the rest of the world and there’s a good market for them here in the US.

I would not expect that they will ever make a full size washer, and dryer again. They simply cannot compete in these areas. They don’t want to compete in these areas. They’re going for the high-end high priced items like Mercedes-Benz in this country.

The bad thing is some of the states are so desperate to have manufactures move to them that they give away too much in tax incentives, etc. this has happened many times before and there’s a very real chance that this plant could go belly up within 10 years and the state won’t even get their money back in that time.

The manufacturers like locating here here because they can get away with paying somebody 22 $25 an hour compared to the 30 or $35 an hour that have to pay in a state where labor unions are common.

John
 
"Fridges and DWs are just secondary in that equation - you don't buy Bosch appliances for the kitchen because their DWs are great. You buy the Bosch oven and cooktop, and because you have those, you get the DW and fridge aswell."

From what I can tell, dishwashers are the main appliance Bosch is known for in the US, and the area where they have the largest market share, by a large margin.

In cooking, they are a minor player. They don't even sell a standard 30" freestanding range anymore, which is the basic cooking appliance found in the vast majority of American homes. Sure, within the specific markets of built-in ovens, slide-in ranges, etc. Bosch has a significant presence, but those are niche markets in the US.

Refrigerators, they recently seem to be trying to make inroads into that market, but up until not that long ago their US offerings were mainly just rebadged Whirlpool and Daewoo stuff - few took them seriously except in the built-in fridge market.
 
That wasn't quite my point.
The point is that especially in the kitchen market, you can't just offer one thing.

I can tell you - because I work for BSH Group currently and the numbers get presented every 3 months in our production location meeting - that refrigeration is a pure loss in the North America market for the BSH group.

But, because if you buy a new kitchen, most people buy all appliances from one brand, you have to have refrigeration offer on almost every format a customer might want.

If you don't have a Side by Side, they won't buy your DW either.
They'll buy all or nothing from you, basically.
The split between new kitchen sales and drop in replacement is about 50/50 for us. So about 50% of customers buy a complete appliance package.

So you might make a loss on the SxS, but with neutral revenue on cooking and great margin on DWs, you take it anyway.

Sure you try to change that and make profit on everything, but that's why some products in the kitchen sector get sold even though they lose money and continue to do so.

Then things worsen, so you either have to drop the entire market, or make the step to produce in country.
 
Interesting, thanks for the insider info. Makes sense.

Also makes sense that BSH loses money on fridges in North America. From what I can see now their freestanding fridges are pretty much all coming from China. Cheap labor, but high shipping costs and potentially tariffs to deal with. Tough given they have to compete with Whirlpool, Electrolux, GE, LG, and Samsung, all of which have production inside the NAFTA area.
 
Regarding appliances, I've always told my customers to focus on the most important item to them whatever that might be.  Some felt it was the DW, anyway once that is decided the rest fell into place since most stayed with the same manufacturer to keep the same finish. Stainless, black stainless and even basic black vary so much from vendor to vendor.
 
What Henene4 said is quite correct and has been so for ages in major appliance market.

It was lack of full appliance line that drove all the major US appliance makers in past and still existent to either buy another company, merge or otherwise find ways to expand to offer consumers a full line of products.

By 1950's or certainly 1960s dealers were letting manufacturers know they needed (ok, demanded) full product lines to keep from losing sales. Mrs. Average American Housewife tended to want an all GE, Maytag, Frigidaire or whoever kitchen and usually that matched laundry appliances. Builders and others also tended (or wanted) to go with one line of goods.

In a way Sears/Kenmore was ahead of game since everything was made by others and merely sold under "Sears", "Lady Kenmore" or "Kenmore" brands.

Maytag is but a case in point. Known for their laundry appliances but by 1960's that wasn't enough. They finally launched a dishwasher (one of last of major US appliance makers to do so IIRC), but needed still more (fridges, ranges, etc...). Thus Maytag went in a buying spree with some interesting acquisitions.

Back to Miele...

They do seem to move decent enough units of complete kitchens but reviews vary. Some swear by their Miele units, others at them..... As with laundry appliances from that brand after sales service and so forth varies. If one does not have ready access to local Miele tech/service it might be best to look elsewhere. That is unless you fancy being without a range, cooker or oven for several weeks or possibly months when repairs are needed.

 
All kitchen appliance matching brands

You very seldom see kitchens in the Washington DC area where all the brands are the same especially really high-end kitchens, yes, builders do like to throw all the same stuff in but it’s not seen as a high-quality kitchen.

No one manufacture is at the top of the game in all products a typical kitchen. I was in a really nice kitchen the other week $18 million house by the way had subzero refrigerators wolf ranges, Meile dishwashers, whirlpool, and Speed Queen laundries for example.

The stainless steel or even the new black stainless steel let alone, white or black appliances, actually match each other very well, it doesn’t look out of place if the little name tags don’t match and most manufactures are making the name tags so small. Now you have to take a hard look to even see what the brand is.

Appliances don’t need to match dishwashers are never gonna look like a refrigerator. Stoves are never gonna look like a dishwasher etc. etc.. and basically when everything does match, you know they just went and got the cheap package price in the kitchen really is not usually well thought out.

Maytag did very well just selling washers and dryers dishwashers and even garbage disposals they started to come apart when they decided to go full line because they just couldn’t compete with the better refrigerators, stoves, etc. and they ruined their name.

As much as the idea of Speed Queen having a dishwasher would be cool. They are very smart not to do it. Their expertise isn’t quality long lasting laundry appliances, and I hope they stay with that,

John
 
I agree. In a properly applianced house the washer, dryer, iron, refrigerator, freezer, dishwasher, microwave, cook-top, oven, range, garbage disposal, trash compactor, coffee maker, toaster oven, ect should never have the same names. Only exception should be the furnace and outdoor unit or the mini split system.
 
yeah, everything-matching kitchens just scream "flipper" to me...also scream "fake gourmet" like matching knives and/or a 20 piece set of cookware...

We were redoing a 1975-era kitchen in Palm Springs during the height of COVID. The kitchen designer (who designed and ordered the cabinetry/counters and had an installer do the rest of the work insisted that we have an oven in hand before he would order any cabinetry. He said that there was the least standardization on built-in ovens, and availability was so tenuous that it was most important to get something in-hand. We ended up with GE Profile.

The "package" rebates are exactly that--a spiff to incent a complete suite purchase--except I knew I wanted a Bosch dishwasher, and knew I wanted a Vent-a-Hood, but didn't want an overpriced Bosch oven, and already had sourced (from Habitat for Humanity) a GE Monogram cooktop.

Bosch dishwashers were tough to find--almost got an ADA unit (made in Germany) from Home Depot but ended up locating at Abt Appliances an 800-series which they had in our hands 2 weeks from ordering.

Refrigerator we decided to wait on (it's a mid-2010s gigantic bright white Coldspot top-freezer that I don't like but there is no hurry as it's working OK.

Overall...I overspecced the dishwasher (I prefer the cheap Bosch with the plastic tub base in Michigan to the 800 series we got), haven't completely mastered the oven, and haven't yet seen the Vent-a-Hood installed.

Our next project is going to be kitchen in Michigan...tighter space, will probably go with a free-standing 30" stove but could be convinced to go with cooktop/oven, may splurge on a Sub-Zero refrigerator (there's a niche in which the 25 year old current KitchenAid fits perfectly and backs up to the powder room), will probably swap out the Bosch dishwasher (10 years old already and works perfectly) and the Vent-a-Hood (more for aesthetics than anything---it's white).
 
 
Folks on a board I follow are constantly asking for recommendations on same-brand appliance packages for both new builds and remodels.  They're almost always advised to piece-pick each item by 1) desired features and 2) brand reputation for that item.
 

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