Miele KM 7667 FR - Do you need it? No, but...

[henene4]

I'm in a pretty lucky spot finance wise at the moment.
(Only financially though, but that's another story.)
So I splurged on a new cooktop and oven.
Oven will be delivered on the 2nd of September, the cooktop has been in for a week now.

Quick review: I see no reason to spend this much on a cooktop.
The 300€ AEG unit I had before will do just fine for basically anyone.

But full surface induction is nice, the UI is really easy to use and power control is beyond precise.

I was originally planning on getting the FL version (without stainless steel rim) but got this one about 200€ cheaper.

This thing is heavy. Way thicker glass top and probably a lot more copper for the inductors.

Use is really simple.
Just put cookware on it and the corresponding line of numbers light up.
I have it set up for 17 power levels, so you select in-between levels by touching both neighbouring numbers so both light up.
If you set timers cooking pauses for your selection and you use the numbers to enter the time.

Only thing is that viewing angles are pretty bad off axis - I can't read the numbers standing 6 feet away.

Power selection is really linear and takes some getting used to.
But way more exact feeling.
The heavy glass top takes away some more heat though, so heating up takes a little longer.

The cooling fans are way quieter and actually reject a ton of heat.
When boiling water on the higher of the 2 boost levels, the cooling vents actually manage to heat up the upper edge of the oven control panel.

It is a really capable cooktop, probably way better for temp precise cooking then cheaper cooktops.

Just using any size cookware at any location and just pushing stuff to the back for simmering is really great.
Finish you pasta sauce, push it to the back and pull the water for the pasta to the front.

3 things I noticed already:
1) When ever you move anything more than a quarter of an inch, power stops for a second as it re-checks the location of the cookware.
2) During low power cooking, you can clearly hear the system checking for location every second. That can be more noisy and "sharp" sounding than the actual power delivery depending on position and cookware.
3) When you move something into an area that hasn't been used before and thus is cold, you really need to up the power a bit for a few minutes to keep a constant temp. Once the glass is warmed up there you can reduce the level again.

Next to see if the oven is just as good!

 

[henene4]

Technical note on construction

You can get the cooktop in this size which is around 63cm/25" wide with a cutout that is 60cm/24" wide.

There is a version wider, about 78cm/31" wide.

The smaller size has 2 induction units as seen by the 2 cooling fans.
That can be run at full power off of 2N power, so 2 phases plus neutral.
Pulls up to 7.4kW at 240V 16A.
It can accommodate 4 cookwares at once.

The larger one needs 1 phase more, but can accommodate 6 cookwares.
Thus it simply has another induction unit added.
So it pulls 10.something kW.

Each of the induction units is similar in that it can supply up to 3.6kW split across 2 cookwares fully variable.
So if you want to use the full power, you have to place the items on opposite sides right and left.

The electronics appear to be made up off one central supervisor unit that has the timer module, the main power relay and monitoring.
Then each induction unit has its own UI element and power supply unit.

Coil switching appears to be done by another central unit.

Thus, any Miele induction cooktop with the DirectSelect numbering use the same modular internals regardless of size, number of cooking zones and type of cooking zones (round classic zones, the rectangular bridgeable ones or full surface).
You basically have 1, 2 or 3 induction units, one central control unit plus the required induction coil sets with corresponding switching electronics.
Makes them "cheap" for what they are and pretty repairable in the future.

You can run both the smaller and the larger unit on as little as 1N at 16A through power management.

If you only have 1 phase at 16A available and for what ever reason decide to install such a cooktop anyway, before use you can reduce the total power draw in the settings in steps down to as little as 3.65kW so you don't overload the circuit.

You'd then bridge the 3 phase terminals together.
No idea why you would limit yourself that way if you are spending north of a grand on a cooktop, but you can...

 

[richnz]

Congratulations on the new purchases

The speed is very handy and also I don't miss the heat from older electric elements.

Does yours make an irritating high-pitched noise when you put cold pots on and crank it up to full power?

Probably my cheap pots? Although the frypan was not cheap ($150 NZD) and that makes a noise until it is hot.

Looking forward to seeing the oven.

What were you cooking in the photos?
Potatoes?

Richard

 

[iej]

I've a 4 Zone panoramic KM 6381 which seems to draw a maximum of 7300W at 230V
It's on a 32 amp 30mA RCBO.

It's a pretty good hob, but to be quite honest nothing amazing, the old De Deitrich induction hob it replaced was as good, if not better. It never gave an ounce of trouble in many years of use and only was replaced when the kitchen was changed. I gave it away and it's still running flawlessly in someone else's kitchen.

7.4kW at 230V is slightly more than 32 amps btw.

Watts/Volts=Amps

7400/230=32.17

 

[iej]

I would just add, I've been using induction hobs for a long time and really, I wouldn't use anything else given the choice. There's just no comparison.

I've spent time in rentals due to work assignments of abroad, and often had good quality radiant ceramic hobs - which are just much, much less responsive, far slower and way harder to clean and natural gas, which is responsive, controllable but wrecks the exterior of your pots and is all a bit primative

- I remember boiling a pot with wooden spoon on top to keep the lid open, forgetting that a high flame would mean toasted spoon! Something that would never happen with induction.
Gas is also a huge chore to clean. You get debris falling onto the surface, if you have a boil over it’s a total mess etc etc

Induction is fantastic. I wouldn’t use anything else.

Boost functions, ability to detect boil over, instant pause / power off when you remove the pan/pot, no extremely hot surfaces, no burned on food on the surface of the hob.
Just wipe with a microfibre cloth and a squirt of decent kitchen spray and perfection!

Congrats on your purchase and might I suggest some good quality, simple cast iron pans! Absolute amazing for omelettes, just never heat them on boost.
They don’t need to be crazy expensive, but they do need to be solid cast iron.

I bought a fairly reasonably priced, very simple, frying pan. It’s heavy, cast iron, extremely old fashioned and made in France - no gimmicks. It requires a bit of seasoning and care to get it to just the right level, and you have to avoid soaking it or excessively washing it, but wow the omelettes. It’s just amazing. So, so good!

My omelette recipe;
Couple of good sized eggs, tiny splash of milk (really very little), black pepper, tiny amount of salt & whisk. put a small amount of butter on a hot pan. Pour in and cook. When it starts to become solid, add a little grated cheese, like maybe a gruyere or even a *very* good mature cheddar - add scallion or chives, a few sliced mushrooms and sliced cherry tomatoes (all placed on just 1/3 of omelette) and then simply roll it and let it cook - absolutely delicious, but need that thick, cast iron pan to really make it work. I’ve never succeeded in doing it on a stainless steel pan or a non stick.

Also avoid any cookware that isn’t fully magnetisable metal. Some of these aluminium pans and pots have coils or plates in the bottom to pick up the field, and it just isn’t the same at all - you’ll get less even cooking or hotspots. A thick bottomed stainless steel or cast iron pan is what makes induction outstanding. It interacts with the magnetic field correctly and dissipates the heat evenly. It’s thin can result in less even results.

Also thinner pots / pains are often noisy as they’ll pick up the scream of the oscillating magnetic field and, particularly on boost or high settings, its a bit noisy![this post was last edited: 9/4/2021-21:03]

 

[henene4]

@iej Mine is run off of 2 phases, so 2 times 16A.

@richnz Yeah it certainly isn't a value cooktop. The AEG this replaced is like a quarter of the price and works just as well.
The induction sound is still there - that ringing sound - but much quieter than on the AEG. Especially on the upper power end. Funny enough it's much more noticeable on the lower power levels when it pulses.
Placement does matter though. Generally, if you place anything right up on the edge of the marked area, it's more noticeable. If you leave an inch from the edge, it quiets down a lot.

 

[iej]

Seems they can mostly be wired 3 ways.

Are both of those 16amp circuits from the same phase?

Normally here we don’t have 3-phase in residential wiring at all.

Cooking appliances are usually on a 32amp circuit breaker, single phase connection on 10mm2 cable.
You have to have an isolating switch next to each appliance, usually rated 45amp.

We have higher rated circuits for some very large ranges too, but generally beyond 45amps you would need multiple circuits.

I partnered the hob with a H2661-1BP oven and H6600BM combination oven - both of which have been absolutely excellent.

 

[henene4]

I can't say for sure what happens behind the breaker panel, but my flat has 10 breakers each 16A/230V plus one main 63A/400V breaker.
The GFCI is actually located in the main panel with the meters on the ground floor.

I'll have to check my meter, but am pretty sure it's 3-phase.

The breakers for the oven connection are 4, 5 and 6.
That would lead me to believe that the 3 phases are evenly split across in order.

The 400V/63A is a 3 phase breaker disconnecting all phases and thus all power to this flat.
There is another, similar breaker down in the main panel.

10*230V*16A is 36.8kW.
63A*400V is only 25.2kW.
My ex-boyfriend was very confused about this - he was electrician. Not really up to code apparently or at least nothing usual.
But I guess that makes some sense. The cabling in each flat might be abled to handle 16A, but as there are 6 flats in this part of the house and there are 3 of these units attached to each other. So 18 units all sharing one common supply for water, heating and power.
So the lower rated 3-phase breaker limits the total power draw of the flat.

A 1200A 3 phase supply for the entire block seems likely.

Our house back home has a 200A main fuse for 2 units.

German electric systems are almost always 3-phase.
More phases means less current and thus lower cabling requirements.

Very rare to see any place renovated in the last 50 years or so to not have 3 phase in every unit unless cooking/heating are entirely done by gas.
Many larger citys here have areas where gas is more common.
Here in the north I think gas is less common.

My new oven arrived this week and I already did some backing.
It's great though similar to the cooktop probably nothing anyone really needs.

More on that once I did some more cooking.

 

[iej]

It’s a different design philosophy. It’s similar but different. European and IEC harmonisation is at least getting the common denominators all lined up and identical, even if differences will probably remain in Europe generally.

You’re probably in some ways going to find EV charging less complex if adequately sized 3 phase is common.

Our regs are absolutely paranoid about not having 3 phase in domestic installations here. Even where there’s a 230V circuit in a building with 3 phase, you have to take measures to ensure that circuits in any given room (for sockets) are all on the same phase, to ensure the likelihood of ever having a 400V shock is eliminated entirely.

The way it’s done here typically is you’ve a 3 phase distribution system and each home takes an alternate phase, so the load is balanced.

The connections are usually 63A (old), 100A (current) and it will go on up to 120amp.

We’ve some use of it for domestic heat pumps and vehicle charging but the wiring and panels are kept separate, and it’s all connected more like you’d see in light industry, with rotary isolators and so on.

There are a few other differences like 110V 50Hz from a centre tapped transformer is required for use of hand tools on building sites / construction context. It’s basically 55V live to live from an isolating transformer, with yellow CEEform plugs.

You’ve also got extremely tight restrictions on bathrooms - no wall mounted switches, no sockets etc other than a special shave socket that doesn’t fit normal plugs and is limited to a few milliamperes via an isolating transformer.

Other odd ones like mandated, accessible isolation double-pole switches for cookers, hobs, extractor hoods, built in appliances etc so they can be switched off.

All socket outlets require shuttering (going back to the 1930s).

It’s similar but different basically. You’ll still get 230V 50Hz out of the wall sockets though.

Electric heating here exists but it’s not that common. It mainly used (uses) night storage heaters. They’re convectors with ceramic bricks inside that are “charged” over night on 1/2 price power and then mechanical shutters/dampers open (or sometimes fans go on) to dissipate the heat during the day.

Most homes are heated by gas in urban areas. Pressure jet light heating oil / kerosene fired boilers are still common in areas without natural gas grid and there’s some use of bulk LPG delivered by tanker too.

One odd thing that tends to be associated with is SpeedQueen dryers
post was last edited: 9/5/2021-20:58]