Picking up this Superba Classic 21 this weekend:
More KA dishwasher fun
- Thread starter sudsmaster
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Any of your dishwasher gurus want to list the difference between this machine and the 17A Custom?
Rich, Glenn's old one looks just like that.
Bob, is mine a 22? I think it's a 22. It looks virtually the same, but I think where Rich's has the wider space between the 3rd and 4th button, mine are spaced equally. Or maybe there's one more button. I'm trying to recall the buttons: Soak-n-Scrub, Normal, Light, Quick/Glass, Rinse/Hold, Dry Heat Off, Sani Rinse, Cancel. Yes, eight buttons. Not necessarily in that order. Rich's has seven.
Rich, your Custom 17 and this Superba 22 are quite different.
The Superba has a wash arm under both racks, adjustable pins in the upper rack, upper rack raises/tilts, lower rack has (I think) a removeable section (mine does), silverware basket is different, includes a rinse agent dispenser, has a water heating element in the sump, has a hidden rapid-advance timer, lower wattage drying element. And of course, more cycle selections. The Custom has only Full Cycle and Rinse/Hold, plus no-heat dry option.
The Custom Full Cycle (assuming it's the same as the Imperial 17A) begins with a half-fill line purge and drain. Then wash, rinse, wash, rinse, rinse, dry.
I can't say about the Superba 21, but my 22 doesn't do a purge because of the automatic water heating. Normal always heats the first wash to 140°F. It doesn't do double rinses. Wash, rinse, wash, rinse, dry. There's a 10- to 15-second fill with 1 minute recirculate before both rinses (I think before both, I know before the last) on Normal and Soak-n-Scrub. Light purges only before the final rinse, and doesn't heat the first wash. Soak-n-Scrub is wash, wash, rinse, wash, rinse, dry. It recirculates during the first fill, then pauses to heat to 140°F. Sprays for 1 minute, then pauses to reheat. Sprays for 1 minute, then drains. Refills, reheats to 140°F, wash. The rest same as Normal. Quick/Glass is fun. Begins with a prerinse, but only circulates while filling, then immediately drains. Main wash. Final rinse (no pump purge before). Dry is shortened.
Note that if your machine has the Soak-n-Scrub cycle with two leading washes ... the detergent dispenser has two covered compartments, and the dose for the first wash is simply placed in the depression between the two cups when they're closed. It immediately dumps to the bottom of the tub when the door is closed.
Rich, your Custom 17 and this Superba 22 are quite different.
The Superba has a wash arm under both racks, adjustable pins in the upper rack, upper rack raises/tilts, lower rack has (I think) a removeable section (mine does), silverware basket is different, includes a rinse agent dispenser, has a water heating element in the sump, has a hidden rapid-advance timer, lower wattage drying element. And of course, more cycle selections. The Custom has only Full Cycle and Rinse/Hold, plus no-heat dry option.
The Custom Full Cycle (assuming it's the same as the Imperial 17A) begins with a half-fill line purge and drain. Then wash, rinse, wash, rinse, rinse, dry.
I can't say about the Superba 21, but my 22 doesn't do a purge because of the automatic water heating. Normal always heats the first wash to 140°F. It doesn't do double rinses. Wash, rinse, wash, rinse, dry. There's a 10- to 15-second fill with 1 minute recirculate before both rinses (I think before both, I know before the last) on Normal and Soak-n-Scrub. Light purges only before the final rinse, and doesn't heat the first wash. Soak-n-Scrub is wash, wash, rinse, wash, rinse, dry. It recirculates during the first fill, then pauses to heat to 140°F. Sprays for 1 minute, then pauses to reheat. Sprays for 1 minute, then drains. Refills, reheats to 140°F, wash. The rest same as Normal. Quick/Glass is fun. Begins with a prerinse, but only circulates while filling, then immediately drains. Main wash. Final rinse (no pump purge before). Dry is shortened.
Note that if your machine has the Soak-n-Scrub cycle with two leading washes ... the detergent dispenser has two covered compartments, and the dose for the first wash is simply placed in the depression between the two cups when they're closed. It immediately dumps to the bottom of the tub when the door is closed.
Thanks.
I forgot to mention: this unit has "Suretemp" heating and "Whisper Quiet".
Does that change anything?
I forgot to mention: this unit has "Suretemp" heating and "Whisper Quiet".
Does that change anything?
Another nice KA find! It will be interesting to see which machine you like more.
SureTemp refers to the automatic 140°F water heating. WhisperQuiet is marketing for the sound insulation.
Thanks, Glenn.
I asked because in another thread I recall reading that the "Suretemp" only acted in the first wash. But perhaps that was a different model (not 21)?
I asked because in another thread I recall reading that the "Suretemp" only acted in the first wash. But perhaps that was a different model (not 21)?
PS- Also curious - in the model hierarchy, is the order, from top of the line to bottom of the line, "Superba", "Imperial", "Custom"?
Or is Imperial higher up than Superba?
Or is Imperial higher up than Superba?
Superba is the highest, then Imperial, then Custom.
Congrats; what a great machine!
When did WP buy the brand-name?
When did WP start corrupting these with a reversing motor to drain the tub?
When did the forced air-drying and the *push-it-out-the-seam between-the-doors* vent stop?
When did WP buy the brand-name?
When did WP start corrupting these with a reversing motor to drain the tub?
When did the forced air-drying and the *push-it-out-the-seam between-the-doors* vent stop?
Has anyone else noticed that ceramic counter-tops seem to be *de rigeur* in California?
filterflo
New member
In 1979 Kitchenaid also had a "Patrician" model, KDP-19.
It makes me want to cry. I had that same machine when we remodeld our kitchen in 1997. I really miss it. It was working perfectly and when we re-built it into the new cabinets and counters, the motor burned up. I think some saw dust may have gotten into the motor. I did not know of this site or I think we would have had it repaired and not replaced. It could wash anything we put in it, no matter how baked on and was relativly quiet. I wish you luck with it. We are now shopping for a new replacement for the now broken new one
deeptub
Member
Reversing motor
Actually Hobart switched to a reversing motor on the KD-20A models in like 1982-83, which introduced the "triple filtration" system that continued on the KD-21 and KD-22 models. They had another job for the drain impeller while the machine was in "wash" mode, namely to pump water UP through the "soil collection" chamber/microfilter. This necessitated a reversing motor.
I'm pretty sure that WP acquired KA in 1986, and I don't believe it was just the brand, but the assets of Hobart's KA division as well. KitchenAid appliances carried on as usual for a number of years. The WhisperQuiet insulation and the later DURAKOTE nylon coated racks both came along under WP ownership. The KD-23 series used a modified version of WPs PowerClean module, which was a fine pump/filter. The KD-24 (of 1996 or 1997) was the first model that was essentially entirely a Whirlpool machine, albeit with a stainless tub/door liner. Then came the KD-25 that was a modification of the 24--mainly, it added a soil sensor in the higher models. Then came the KD-01, the tall tubs that people either love or loathe. The present KD-02 carries on the love-loathe feelings.
KitchenAid's built-in cooking appliances, which came along when Hobart acquired Chambers in I think the 1970s, continued as essentially Chambers units until the late 1990s when the ovens began to share WPs design (basic design, mind you, the KAs are generally a good bit fancier than the WPs). In 1989, Whirlpool seems to have sold the KA disposer design to Viking, and KA disposers are now made by Emerson. Somewhere in the 1990s WP sold the 18" KA compactor design to Viking, too. Now the only available KA compactor is a 15" of WP origin.
Wow that ended up being a lot more chatty than I had planned.
T.
Actually Hobart switched to a reversing motor on the KD-20A models in like 1982-83, which introduced the "triple filtration" system that continued on the KD-21 and KD-22 models. They had another job for the drain impeller while the machine was in "wash" mode, namely to pump water UP through the "soil collection" chamber/microfilter. This necessitated a reversing motor.
I'm pretty sure that WP acquired KA in 1986, and I don't believe it was just the brand, but the assets of Hobart's KA division as well. KitchenAid appliances carried on as usual for a number of years. The WhisperQuiet insulation and the later DURAKOTE nylon coated racks both came along under WP ownership. The KD-23 series used a modified version of WPs PowerClean module, which was a fine pump/filter. The KD-24 (of 1996 or 1997) was the first model that was essentially entirely a Whirlpool machine, albeit with a stainless tub/door liner. Then came the KD-25 that was a modification of the 24--mainly, it added a soil sensor in the higher models. Then came the KD-01, the tall tubs that people either love or loathe. The present KD-02 carries on the love-loathe feelings.
KitchenAid's built-in cooking appliances, which came along when Hobart acquired Chambers in I think the 1970s, continued as essentially Chambers units until the late 1990s when the ovens began to share WPs design (basic design, mind you, the KAs are generally a good bit fancier than the WPs). In 1989, Whirlpool seems to have sold the KA disposer design to Viking, and KA disposers are now made by Emerson. Somewhere in the 1990s WP sold the 18" KA compactor design to Viking, too. Now the only available KA compactor is a 15" of WP origin.
Wow that ended up being a lot more chatty than I had planned.
T.
deeptub
Member
KUDS21 vs KUDS22
The Superba Classic that Rich is picking up has buttons (left to right) Soak & Scrub Pots/Pans, Normal, Light/China, Rinse Hold, Sani Rinse, Energy Saver No Heat Dry, and Cancel.
And for the record, the indicator lights on both models are (left to right) Heating Water, Wash, Rinse, Dry, Rinsed Only. The Rinsed Only light, which first appeared on the KDS-17, illuminates when the door is unlocked after a Rinse Hold cycle.
The 22-Series Superba added a Quick/Glass button between Light/China and Rinse Hold.
The 22-Series Quick/Glass is actually more like the 21-Series Light/China, which is three fills (not counting pump purges), Rinse/Wash/Rinse/Dry, with shorter cycle segments via the rapid advance motor. The 22 Series Light/China has 4 fills like the Normal cycle (Wash/Rinse/Wash/Rinse/Dry), but also with shorter cycle segments via the rapid advance motor.
My parents have a KUDS21 that they've had since 1988. It's a lovely machine. Theirs is a Superba Monterey. On the 21 series, a Classic had a dark brown control panel with a woodgrain horizontal strip, and the Monterey had a gloss black control panel with a dark gray strip. Oh yeah, and a Superba Selectra had a black control panel with electronic touch controls.
Did I leave anything out? Lord, don't get me started talking about KitchenAids.
T.
The Superba Classic that Rich is picking up has buttons (left to right) Soak & Scrub Pots/Pans, Normal, Light/China, Rinse Hold, Sani Rinse, Energy Saver No Heat Dry, and Cancel.
And for the record, the indicator lights on both models are (left to right) Heating Water, Wash, Rinse, Dry, Rinsed Only. The Rinsed Only light, which first appeared on the KDS-17, illuminates when the door is unlocked after a Rinse Hold cycle.
The 22-Series Superba added a Quick/Glass button between Light/China and Rinse Hold.
The 22-Series Quick/Glass is actually more like the 21-Series Light/China, which is three fills (not counting pump purges), Rinse/Wash/Rinse/Dry, with shorter cycle segments via the rapid advance motor. The 22 Series Light/China has 4 fills like the Normal cycle (Wash/Rinse/Wash/Rinse/Dry), but also with shorter cycle segments via the rapid advance motor.
My parents have a KUDS21 that they've had since 1988. It's a lovely machine. Theirs is a Superba Monterey. On the 21 series, a Classic had a dark brown control panel with a woodgrain horizontal strip, and the Monterey had a gloss black control panel with a dark gray strip. Oh yeah, and a Superba Selectra had a black control panel with electronic touch controls.
Did I leave anything out? Lord, don't get me started talking about KitchenAids.
T.
