Need help with my KDS-17

[seinfan01]

Hello dishwasher community,

I've researched my dishwasher a few times in the past. Google searches usually brings me to this message board, which leads to a few hours of looking at pictures and reading threads here. I don't collect old appliances, but I can certainly understand and appreciate your passion since I'm a collector of a few choice things.

I bought a KitchenAid KDS-17 seven years ago for the bargain price of $25. I didn't think anything of it at the time, I needed a dishwasher. It has been the absolute best dishwasher I've come across. I even brought it with me when I moved three years ago.

Last week, the dishwasher tub flooded due to a bad water inlet valve/solenoid. The water somehow got to the timer, which shorted out and tripped the breaker. I found out from the boards here that Midwest Timer has them in stock for $116, that's not a problem. I need advice on what to look for to make sure the new timer doesn't short out. There is a black wire that I'm pareticularly concerned about. If anyone has a digital copy of the schematics for the KDS-17 for my dad to look over, that would be particulally helpful. A digital copy of the manual would be an added bonus. Additionaly, the part number for the Water Inlet Valve/Solenoid would be greatly appreciated -- I'm guessing it would be close to the same price at any website that has them in stock?

My dad and brother thinks I'm nuts for trying to get the dishwasher repaired. My wife agrees with me that the KA is something special and is worth the effort to get fixed.

Thank you in advance,
--Jeff
Colorado Springs, CO
email: [email protected]

 

[washdaddy]

Jeff-
If you go to the "manuals & literature" (Automatic Ephemera) section of this website you can get the Manuals and parts manuals and service manuals for the dishwasher you have.

There's a small fee for them but it's definitely worth the price especially since you are willing to invest the time and effort to keep your machine running.

If you encounter any problems with your repairs or the upkeep of your machine this site has many members that are willing to give you guidance you need to keep your machine running.

Welcome to the site.

Have yourself a great day!
Rick

 

[chachp]

Timer for $116

Based on the ones I've seen that is a reasonable price.  Some may not agree with that but if it's brand new or rebuilt by them I would think it's worth that price and in line with what usually pops up on eBay and those on eBay are more often used than not.

 

I think the Water Valve you need is 4171000 and many on eBay but let's wait and see if someone can validate that as I don't have a cross reference sheet to compare the old numbers with the new ones.  Geneally you'll pay in the $25 range for one of these.

 

These are two very easy fixes.  Good luck.  That's a great machine.

 

[seinfan01]

Washdaddy,

Is the schematics somewhere in there? I briefly looked there just now and based on the tiny preview pics, it looks like it's just the manual. I pulled the manual online a few years ago, but I can't find the print out nor can I find it online any more. Regardless, the schematics is the main thing I'm looking for since I need to know the layout for the wiring to make sure everything is still in check.

chachp,

I found several on eBay. Used for $10-$12 and new for $20-$30. Think a used one would be okay or should I spring for a new one?

Thanks,
--Jeff

 

[stevet]

Service manual

is the place that you will find the wiring diagrams. If the service manual isn't in the ephemera, I can scan mine and send you a copy.
Also, while your machine took a dual coil solenoid they only provide the single coil ones under the number that Ralph indicated above.
If you want to protect your timer in the future, you can use a think mylar sheet and form it to cover the complete bac and front so that if the shaft seal should leak it won't spray any water on it and if the machine overflows again, the water will run down the front of the timer but no into it. Why in the world the engineers put the timer down there without any protection was a huge blunder.

 

[seinfan01]

Stevet,

I saw some sort of schematics ephemera, but I'm not sure if it's the layout I need (tiny preview pics and all).
If you could, please send a copy to [email protected]
Much appreciated.
Good idea on the mylar sheet. I will definitely have to do that.

--Jeff

 

[chachp]

Opinion - Dual or Single

Steve (and others too), do you have an opinion on whether to use a dual or single inlet valve?  I think some time ago there was a debate on here on whether to use single or dual inlet valves.  I have been converting mine to single because I thought the general consensus was the single was better.  Or now that I research it more is it because they just quit making the dual for some reason?

 

Jeff, I think this single valve will work on your machine but these other guys are the experts I am not.  I would see how they weigh in.

 

As far as my own personal opinion on new or used I will generally go for the new if the difference in dollars is that low.  If the difference is bigger like $50+ dollars I will consider the used one.  I guess with parts this old you never know and any of them are a gamble.   The other criteria I use to make this choice is will I be using the machine occasionally or as my daily driver.  If daily driver I'll usually go for the new part if I can swing it.

 

[swestoyz]

For $2.75 through PayPal, the downloaded version of the service manual in AE will have everything you need, and will save Steve from having to scan the whole manual. 

 

Kudo's to you for keeping a classic going.  I've been using a KDS-17 as a daily driver for years now.  I'm quite happy with it.  It doesn't hurt to keep an eye out for them on Craigslist, as having extra parts on hand will help it live for years to come.

 

Ben

KD-17 Series-Automatic Dishwashers Service Manual

KD-17 Series-Automatic Dishwashers Service Manual

www.automatice.org

 

[seinfan01]

I bought the service manual download. It's a lot bigger than I thought it would be with a wealth of information. Well worth the $2.75 (plus the paper and ink to print all 44 pages).
I look forward to reading more replies. I will probably buy the parts this weekend after I get some more feedback on here.

Thanks,
--Jeff

 

[seinfan01]

If I go from a dual inlet valve to a single, what do I need to do to modify it? Isn't there two hoses on the dual?

 

[combo52]

Dual to Single Inlet Valve

On the dual valve both valves are in series, so there is one inlet and one outlet connection for water. All you have to do to convert is tape off [ or cutoff ] the extra set of wires that would have connected to the 2nd solenoid.

For an older KA DW I would diffidently go to the single valve for a daily driver, this way you can get a nice new fresh valve that will actually work for a long time. The dual valves never reduced flooding that much and as valve quality improved all US manufactures abandoned them. The chance of a replacement inlet valve causing a flood is about the least of your worries using an older DW.

 

[seinfan01]

I'm getting my kitchen redone in a month or so -- new cabinets, counter tops, and hardwood floor. What sort of preventative measures should I take to make sure the dishwasher runs for another 20-40 years.

 

[stevet]

De gustibus non est disputandam

When it comes to taste, there is no dispute!

Personally, I would never, ever, ever put a hardwood floor down in a Kitchen where liquid spills and water leaks from appliances are always a possibility even on brand new units.

 

There are many horror stories even on this forum of dishwashers causing mega damage to the floor when they leak.

 

I would definitely go with ceramic, porcelain or the new grained tile that is available in my kitchen. I have always carried the flooring under all the appliances including all the kitchen cabinets so that there is one consistent level that everything rests on.

 

When that cannot be done, any new flooring definitely goes under the dishwasher so you don't have to dig or sawzall the machine out of the floor to remove it when it bites the dust. Stories of having to cut out the machine because the tile or hardwood ended at the toe kick of the machine and now it cannot be slid out of it's home, can also be found here and among the general public.

It cost my uncle a complete countertop redo because he did that exact thing. He had to slice away the counter above the BOL GE d/w he buried in his cabinets.

 

If I were you and you wanted that 17 to last, I would have a spare pump, timer and program button set. Spare fill and drain solenoids(2 drain solenoids) at least one dryer assembly with motor, element, housing and safety thermostat. Spare sump heater and thermostats. Also, get some extra racks and keep them as spares. BTW, the upper racks from the 18 thru 23 series will fit the 17 just fine if you remove the China guard and washarm under the rack and attach it to your original hardware.

 

Basically, find yourself at least one good donor machine and store it or strip the parts off of it. If it is in good shape. Keep it intact and swap the whole thing out when and if the time comes.

 

[chachp]

Amen to that about the floor!

<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva; font-size: small;">I have that exact issue in my house.  The former owners tiled up to the front of the dishwasher and not underneath.  To make matters worse they tiled over a Formica countertop that hangs over and restricts from the top.</span>

 

<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva; font-size: small;">Luckily I was able to turn the feet all the way down and wedge it out which isn't easy because the KDS17 has a metal frame all the way around it and we had to inch it in and out (thanks Mike and Todd).  I think around the 20 series or so the metal frame only came up the sides about 1/2 way.  Those aren't as difficult to get in and out but still is a pain with all that adjusting of the back feet from the front when the machine is installed.  Not on the top of my hit parade of favorite things to do!</span>

 

<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva; font-size: small;">My KDS15 won't fit at all because it is about 1/8" too tall even with the feet all the way up.  I thought about taking them off all together but once the dishwasher gets back into the cabinet it drops about an inch or so because of the floor.  Without the leveling feet I wouldn't be able to raise it up and I'd have a huge gap at the top.</span>

 

<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva; font-size: small;">Bottom line, for a few extra dollars life will be much easier down the road if you go under all your cabinets and appliances.  Have you seen the new porcelain tile that looks like wood grain that Steve mentioned above?  It's a pretty good alternative.  Hardwood looks great in the kitchen but over time you may wish you did something else especially if your kitchen is a very active one.
</span>

 

[seinfan01]

We decided to go wall to wall on the flooring so everything is on the same level surface. We have seen the ceramic wood and didn't much care for it.
There are two different places that have an engineered wood flooring the we like . Both have some sort of hard coating that is extremely durable, resistant to scratching, and never has to be refinished. I might lay down a plastic sheet under the dishwasher for preventative purposes.

I saw a timer (listed for a KDS-57, but same model number D-110057 as mine) listed on eBay for $82.75. Debated whether I should go for used OEM or new aftermarket via Midwest Timer. I'm sort of leaning towards the latter.

 

[chachp]

Cost difference?

Personally if it were me I would go with the new.  If the difference was over about $50 I would consider the used one but given you want to use it as a daily driver and the cost difference is relatively low, I would go with the new.