New heat pump advice

[volsboy1]

I am going to install a high efficiency heat pump and would love some advice.I am looking at 16 seer and above and have got 4 estimates..I have right now a 21 year old Coleman Air/Gas furnace and its been great not one problem but it does need a new compressor in it.The Trane guy came and gave me a price of 7300 bucks for a 15 SEER HEAT pump.Carrier has quoted me 7000 for a 16 seer infinity System.The two stage is only 800 bucks more.I had a guy come today who quote me 7500 bucks for a two stage Nutone 16 seer Heat pump Hybrid with a two stage 90 Afu Gas furnace.Nutone is made by Nordyne and comes with a 10 years Parts and Labor warranty. I know alot about Hvac but not everything.I don't need any duct work done at all.It does need cleaning and that is it.I called the Trane guy today and told him I want a two stage compressor he told me that the single stage 15 Seer is more efficient. I have a feeling something is rotten in Denmark with that guy.A two stage system runs longer at a lower capacity the compressor runs at 67% then when it needs the rest it shifts up.Starting and stopping is what is hard on compressor's there like a car engine most wear is done at start not when it's running. I hear everybody trash this brand and that brand so I don't put much into that.He trashed Ruud/Rheem but I don't care I am getting a estimate on them. Does anybody know why he would tell me that?I have a feeling he has ordered a ton of these 14.5 Seer models cause that 1500 bucks Tax rebate I am going to get and he might have excess stock.He also told me that my lines need changing for 700 bucks.Copper is $$$ but everybody else said my 3/4 in lines are fine.Flush them and go so this Trane guy would charge me 700 bucks to put lines in and take mine with him and flush them and use them on another install.He makes pure profit on that deal.I do want it done right and I do want a good system but I don't want to get screwed over.They all use the same compressor's now save for the 20 Seer Trane with the dual recip in them.Trane uses Copeland scrolls and pants them orange.There recip's are made by them but now there made in Mexico.

 

[appnut]

I've had an 18 SEER Trane (variable speed air handler and compressor) that was recommended to me by combo52. Have loved it!!

 

[toggleswitch]

Is natural gas expensive enough (still) in the south to justify changing the additional cost of changing over to a heat-pump for heat?

When I had central air-conditioning installed, a few contractors wanted me to avoid (high-efficiency) two-stage units. They claimed that such units are not as reliable. In retrospect, I'm guessing the average schmuck of a repairman can't handle them.

On a friends heat-pump only the outside unit was changed, so make it all work and mesh there was a thermostatic (refrigerant) expansion valve in the refrigerant pipes, just before the inside coils. There must have been at least half-a-dozen repairmen that were CLUELESS when repairs were needed as to:

1- How heat-pumps work in general. (Well, in all fairness you don't see too many in the state of Connecticut).

2- How THAT PARTICULAR heat-pump worked with a thermostatic expansion valve.

If you are being asked to change the refrigerant tubes, I'd say 'run for the hills!' Or at least be 100% sure the sizes need to change. Again a simple thermostatic expansion valve should compensate for this much of the time. (The thermostatic expansion valve functions as a substitute/'assistant' for the capillary action of the tiny internal-diameter refrigerant line). [this post was last edited: 8/2/2010-21:55]

 

[a440]

Your Coleman Furnace is a Trouper!

Your Coleman Furnace and Air Condenser could last you for years. See if you can get someone to install a Scroll Compressor from "Copeland" into it. If you kept this total system 8 years or more it would pay for the new compressor and then some. A Scroll compressor installed into your Colman would make it very efficent.
If you have gas I would suggest you sticking with Gas if you are to replace the entire unit. We have had a few in my neighborhood that went to the heat pump. They hate it. I really don't know why they are pushing the heat pumps so big in our areas when natural gas is plenty.
My next door neighbor told me that there were days during this past winter when his "heat" did not kick off for days. Called for service and was told that everything was working fine. He said that his utility bill was threw the roof because of the "aux" heat always coming on. He was very upset, but stuck!
This summer his unit is also running constant. It is a Trane system. This replaced a 25 year old Lennox Total system with gas furnace.
I would check on getting a new compressor for your air. Copeland Scroll Compressors are awesome and very efficient. It may make your current Coleman just as efficent. Do a Google search on them. Someone out there that is a die hard repair guy from the Old School can do this for you. Everyone else will want to sell you a complete package.
Also....I think the "rebate" is only for labor. I could be wrong....but that is what I understood. Check that out also.
Brent

 

[repair-man]

It's actually common practice to change the line set when replacing an entire system. At least around here. And it is never a really good idea to change only the outside unit. Although adding a TXV (expantion valve) will generally adapt the coil to the new outside unit you usually will not acheive the full efficiency of the new unit. You wont get much better efficiency by changing the compressor either. Scroll compressors are good but will pull about the same wattage as a comperable size reciprocating one. Higher efficiency is generally achieved by using larger condenser coils (more surface area to release the heat) that in turn allow lower wattage compressors (lower pressure on the high side of the system). Anyway, if it was me and I had a compressor burnout I wouldn't think of changing the system and using the old line set. I don't care how much you nitrogen purge the lines if you cut open a piece of the pipe it will be coated with black oil. Just my two cents for what it's worth. I'm not the worlds greatest expert on HVAC. I don't know it all. I worked with it a lot 10+ years ago. Now I focus on appliances only except my families and my own.

 

[mayguy]

Not sure what model of Trane you were looking at, but yeah some times the single stage is better than two stage. Why? The coil on the two stage in cool mode is "oversize" and it's not able to pull the humidity out of the air.

I have a single stage Trane A/C, and two stage gas furnace, and been very pleased with it. Some days I wished I've gone with Heat Pump since price is not going to get cheaper.

When I was in the field, I've delt with Carrier, Rheem, York, and Trane, and I have nothing bad to say about them.

Make sure the dealer does a Manual-J (Load Calc) on YOUR home for the right size equipement!

 

[mrb627]

Carrier

I got five estimates last Summer and went with the second highest quote. I installed a Carrier Infiniti System and couldn't be more pleased. Both fan motors are super quiet. I can't tell the unit is running unless I go look at the thermostat. Often times when I am outside, I will look at the condenser and there will be a solid stream of water running out of the evaporator. Man this thing sucks the humidity out of the air. It's awesome!

Malcolm

 

[mark_wpduet]

After having a few problems over the past few years with my heat pump, I have learned that proper installation of the unit is MUCH MORE important than the brand

 

[volsboy1]

Well,we are going with a Luxaire 18 seer.They have the best warranty and well I could not pass up that.I got a 10 year Parts and labor,if anything goes wrong they bring me a new one.Then I have a lifetime compressor warranty on top of that plus they threw in the twice a year tune up for 5 years.Luxaire is made by York and well my next door neighbor who we have lived by for 32 years has a York Heat Pump that is to small for the house cause like us they added and added.She put that System in 1981 it's a package unit.The thing never stops running all winter and summer she has never done nothing to it save for putting a fan blade on it..It's one of those Yorks that has the condenser un protected the fan is hidden and scorches the ground were the air comes out.That thing has been kicked, beat the fins are all bent cause when I was growing up this neighborhood had about 30 or so kids running around. I like York/Luxaire heat pumps defrost control they have one of the best on the market and the compressor and everything is in a insulated box.It has Txv valves on both the inside and out.. What I don't understand on the Trane units is why does the HSPF factor only go to 9 even on the 20 Dual recip model.. This Luxaire we are getting is 10 HSPF .. This guy also sells American standard and he told me that Train guy is trying to rip me off.He offered the two stage American Standard for a grand less than the Trane single stage.

 

[mayguy]

That is correct, and that's why I mention about the Manual-J.