On The Quest For A New Powdered Laundry Detergent

[foraloysius]

If you want to use enzymes and oxygen bleach and you're going to do a pre-wash and a main wash, it's best to use the enzymes in the pre-wash and the oxygen bleach in the main wash. That's how it was done for many years in Europe when there were only a few detergents with enzymes available. We had special pre-wash detergent (like Biotex) that were dedicated pre-soak and pre-wash detergents.

 

[iej]

A lot of the enzymes will survive the oxygen bleach in powder formulas as it’s not strong enough to denature proteins, but a lot of them also used a chemical / thermochemistry trick to delay the activation of the bleach, allowing the enzymes to work more effectively in the first phase of the cycle.

The enzyme pre soaks largely vanished in the 1980s and machines with “bio” and pre soak options became less common.

Running full pre wash cycles was very common in the 1970s and 80s and machines are still all designed with the pre wash drawer segment, which I doubt sees very much use. Many cheaper machines only have one cycle that use it. Miele however, seems very fond of pre wash options. If you select heavily soiled on their W1 machines it will automatically run a prewash.

 

[launderess]

We don't wash in dirty water....

Old ways are sometimes best, to pre wash or soak heavily soiled items before going to main wash.

Modern detergents do have remarkable soil suspension powers, especially compared to soaps of old, but still..

For whites and colours two short washes of about 9-12 minutes each will produce better results on badly soiled laundry than one 18-24 minute main wash.

All that being said most today do not generate much heavily soiled laundry like days of old. Good amount of what goes to wash today has been worn/used once and may not even have visible stains. Some body soil pretty much is all.

Removing pre-wash as part of "Normal/Cottons/Linens" or other cycles of course cuts water use. So there is that.

 

[adam-aussie-vac]

Laundress

I honestly wonder should it be a good idea if I should where are my clothes for a little longer than just a day, excluding undergarments and socks cause Those get alot of abuse right there

 

[iej]

The only items I've ever had to use pre wash for were my rugby gear! I played it in my school days and I wasn’t all that good at it, but everything came back absolutely caked in mud and grass stains. The machine needed the pre wash cycle to flush it all away! No detergent could magic that away with chemicals.

There’s soil and literally soil (Earth, mud and dirt)

 

[ozzie908]

Nursing my Mother at home

The last few weeks has been pretty tough and I have not had so much Soiled linen in years and I am so glad that my Miele has the pre wash option as I can use it along with a 60c wash and there is nothing whatsoever on anything good old Ariel in both compartments and its sorted. Simply marvellous..

 

[panasonicvac]

This was at my local Costco today.

 

[qsd-dan]

This was at my local Costco today.

Keep throwing salt on my open wounds, lol.

 

[launderess]

Early on enzymes added to laundry detergents, soakers, etc.. were usually only subtilisin protease which worked slowly and at temps between 100F to 120F.

Technology improved not just protease but host of other enzymes now found in laundry products so they will work in temps low as 15 degrees C and up to 60 degrees C. Best results however are at lower temps.





https://www.persil.com/uk/laundry/l...out-laundry-detergents-and-how-they-work.html

Rubber met the road and things diverged when it came down to North American versus UK wash day habits.

In Europe washers that self heated water often were powerful enough to take coldest tap water to hot or boiling temps rather quickly. A prewash or soak before main wash, and or "Bio/Stain" option either slows down heating, and or stops thermostat at point to allow enzymes to get their bit done at proper temp range, then heating continues.

In USA washing machines largely did and still don't heat water. Also until rather recently top loading machines with central beaters and short cycles dominated. So P&G had to create enzymes and bleaching systems that not only worked in dilute water conditions, but in short amount of time.

Main reason why so many in Europe did boil washing was to activate oxygen bleach and or otherwise bleach heck out of whites/colourfast items. Activated oxygen bleaching systems (TAED) allowed turning dial down to get boil wash results at 60 degrees C.

 

[iej]

I would say 95% of washes are done at 40°C (or less) here anyway. I don’t remember anyone doing very many hot washes when I was growing up here in Ireland anyway. Mostly considered a waste of energy. It was always 40° or less with the eco options turned on.

Personally, I run a high temperature wash once a month with a large load of towels to completely cleaned out the machine. It seems to entirely eliminate mould issues.

I remember my late grandmother absolutely always turned the machine to Cold or 30° and would tell you that running hotter cycled was “a load of auld nonsense!” She adopted liquids in the 80s and I never remember any of her laundry being any less clean than it should have been.

That being said, I’ve never really seen issues with powdered detergent at lower temperature either - just not ideal for cold.

I was reading an article about Unilever. They’re no longer producing powder in the UK. Persil powder is currently made in Spain. It might be a contract with Persan. They’ve also entered a joint venture with Unilever in France to manufacture dishwasher detergent (marketed as Sun.)

They seem to be more focused on food and on personal care than household stuff these days.

I’m beginning to wonder if Unilever might be about to exit the detergent and dishwashing market here or license the brands. They’re not a dominant player, other than in a handful of countries, so it might make economic sense and they did just that in North America relatively recently.

Older (1970s, 80s and 90s) machines here were almost universally hot and cold fill. That started to disappear in the mid 1990s, but most houses likely still have hot water available behind the washing machine.

I honestly don’t know who is doing all these boil washes. Energy in Europe really isn’t cheap in most EU countries. It’s particularly pricey here.

At present electricity in Ireland is as much as 28 cent (about 30 cent US) per kWh! You can get it lower by aggressively shopping around and using night rates and smart meters, and this is an particularly crazy rate at the moment, but it’s never ever been cheap and most of us grew up with an awareness that you try to minimise usage.

This winter is going to be interesting. Energy prices are just going through the roof.

I was talking to a rural based relative who uses pressure jet oil heating and a tank of oil (kerosine) went from about €600 to over €1500 !!

[this post was last edited: 7/2/2022-07:27]

 

[launderess]

Average wash temperature across Europe is 40 degrees C. But even that is too high for many as good number of households still go with 60 degrees C or above. What those who care about such matters want is more or all households switching to 30 degree C washing.

https://www.electroluxgroup.com/en/...ices-out-of-step-with-climate-concerns-32373/

https://www.politico.eu/sponsored-content/leading-detergent-brands-to-european-consumers-wash-cold/

 

[iej]

Seems my late gran was possibly a few decades ahead of her time - born in the 1920s. It wasn’t for financial reasons but she just absolutely *HATED* waste.

Back in the 1980s, as disposable culture was probably peaking, she would just never accept supermarket bags, both on the basis that it was excessive waste of resources and because she felt that if they wanted her to carry their logo and slogan around that they should pay her for the endorsement.

She’d always carry a shopping bag or two in her handbag, or use a canvas trolley and walk rather than drive unless it was some huge item.

She also still had an old fashioned grocer a relatively short walk away, as late as the early 2000s. You simply handed in your shopping list, went for a browse for a few items and probably popped in for a coffee with “the girls” and the groceries were ready and waiting in your trolley when you came back. All the vegetables, cold meats, cheese etc was packed in brown paper and grease proof paper! Then off to the bakery & maybe the butchers etc. Clothes shopping etc was all in the city centre and she got there by bus or on foot and It was all very civilised.

On that other side of it, they adopted an automatic washing machine way before most households did in this part of the world and household chores were pretty democratically shared. My grandad did plenty of cooking, baking and cleaning. I’m not sure what brand their first machine was, but was early. She also used a dishwasher from the 1970s onwards, but was quite sparing with the detergent and cycles. There was a dryer in the garage but I rarely remember it being used.

She did have “all the mod cons” and was a big advocate of microwave cooking. I remember her being a huge fan of cooking meat using combination of microwave & conventional oven. There was also a modern halogen based hob which was state of the art of the 80s.

Also I remember they had an old Nilfisk GA70 and she would reuse the bags multiple times! That machine still works and it’s probably from the late 60s

Strawberries, apples, rhubarb, raspberries, etc etc growing in the back garden and could whip up a batch of fruit scones with home made jam and clotted cream while she was talking to you. It was like how did that happen!? Oven door open!

Just when I think back on how my grandparents did things, they had a lovely lifestyle yet were probably far less environmentally impactful than more recent generations.

 

[launderess]

It's interesting when using vintage Persil 59 for a wash in my cold fill AEG washers.

Things start off as if there isn't any detergent, literally very little froth. As time passes and water temperature rises foaming increases. Since this product only has perborate bleach and no activator, use Persil 59 at temps of 60 degrees C or above. When temp of hot or boil wash is reached there is tons of lovely froth, especially when doing terry bath linen.

 

[foraloysius]

People with dustmite allergies are often advised to wash as often as possible at 60 degrees C. It takes a lot to kill those mites. It was one of the first things I was advised at the hospital when I was diagnosed with asthma.

My Siemens has four different stain options. The blood stain button ads a pre-wash automatically when activated.

 

[yuccadew]

Anyone try (Henkel) E laundry powder? I believe this is the brand my aunt in Poland used in the 90s. I just found it in a local Polish grocer in the US, and I’m looking forward to seeing how it is. I love the scent. Much different from the American brands, most of which I do not like and end up getting unscented.

I’m also looking forward to switching back over to powders after using liquids for a long time. Right now I have this one for whites, and Roma powder for colors.

 

[volvoman]

Reply #94

...What was the Polish grocer that you found this at? Did they have any other detergents?

 

[angus]

Also, how do you determine the appropriate dosage if you don't have a comparable washer? For example, if you were to use this in a regular top loading washer, how much would you use? I struggle with that whenever I have used German Persil and actually, the US detergent instructions aren't that helpful either. This may sound silly but I never know whether the dosage instructions on Persil Liquid or Tide powder are the same whether you use a front loading or HE washer or a nice top older top loader.... For all I know I could be wasting product or not using enough. My clothes are fairly immaculate, but still...

I have also called the 800 numbers for Henkel and P&G and while the reps are pleasant enough, really can't answer the question. All they tell me is that the products are suitable for both types of machine and dosage should be based on soil level.

 

[combo52]

Proper amount of detergent to use in a wash load

Depends on a whole list of things

Water, hardness,

Water, temperature,

Water, temperature, the colder, the water, the more you need

Volume of water

Quality of the detergent, concentration, etc.

In general you can’t use too much detergent far more problems are caused by using two little,

In general, I would start with what the manufacturer recommends. They’re usually pretty close. Check to see if the water is slippery after everything is dissolved and washing
for a few minutes.

However, it’s wasteful and costly to use too much detergent, generally, for most people, the most expensive part of washing a load of clothing is the cost of the detergent. It’s generally far more than the cost of the water, the heating of the water and certainly the small cost of electricity that the washing machine uses to operate ,

John

 

[yuccadew]

volvoman- Roly Poly in New Britain, CT has the “E” for whites. There was 1 bag left after I purchased this one. They also had others in small boxes. Vizir (1 left), which I took a picture of, and also Persil and Arial (no photo). My mother also found the E for darks and colors (pictured) at Polmart today, also in New Britain. She didn’t see what else they had, but she said there were several bags of E left. I love the smell!

angus- they have a conversion chart on the back (pictured). First you have to determine whether you have hard or soft water, then how heavy/large the load is. They give you the amount of detergent to use in ml, so you just have to convert it to cups. For my husband and son’s heavier, and more soiled loads I’ll use about 3/4 cup per load; 1/2 a cup or so for light duty loads (more or less, I’ll play around with it a little until I get it right. I haven’t used powder in a while). I have a top loading washer, and our water is on the hard side.