Organic Diatribe

[mixfinder]

The more stress you have placed on your body, the more you need to nurture it, as a machine.

Plants mutate regularly to stay healthy in their environment in response to the environmental stresses they are subjected to.

Eat fruits and vegetable that grow within 50 miles of where you live, dead RIPE, in their Natural growing season as Mother Nature saw fit.

Organics are not inherintly better or better for you, just as produce grown with chemical assist is not inherintly bad or bad for you.

In the Uninted States, consumers demanded tomatoes, year round, dead ripe at 99 cents a pound, with full flavor, in the middle of winter. Anything else they refuse to buy and it would rot on the shelf.

On day someone says, "Holy Crap! Look what that dirty rotten farmer did. He used a contolled environment to put chemicals, heat, instecticides and herbicides on my $99 a pound tomato, I just bought in February. It isn't natural and he is a very bad man!"

People, people, you now spend three times as mush to buy an ORGANIC, dead ripe, deep red, full flavored tomato you bought in February, patting yourself on the back all the way and thinking it is natural. How organic and natural is any product grown 1000s of miles from where you live, shipped held, sorted, transported, redistributed and placed in a supermarket. If it was "natural" it would rotted by the time it was on the shelf.

In the middle of it is a voice of reason. Use logic and remember, nature doesn't make mistakes. The food grown in and around you in it's natural season, nurtures your body.

Many of the others are neutral, they neither hurt or help. It tastes good and keeps the system flowing.

Kelly

 

[sudsmaster]

This is pretty much the same philosophy that prompted Alice Waters, of Chez Panisse fame, to create the "California Cuisine". She is adamant that various produce should only be bought and consumed in season. If you can grow it in your own garden, so much the better.

That said, I confess to have enjoyed tasty nectarines from South America during our winter months. I guess that's a weakenss ;-)

Lately I've been discovering home-made Mexican cuisine. I was prompted by some scientific curiosity about some newly published findings that certain yogurt-like bacteria can nearly eliminate the flatus-inducing properties of beans, provided they are soaked long enough and in the presence of said bacteria. What caught my eye in one article was the line, "Smart cooks have long known that beans do better if you save some of the soak water from the previous batch and add it to the soak water for a new batch".

So far, so good. I find that the small red beans are good - but they can be had to find. Fortunatley there are some good Mexican groceries in town that I can patronize. Today I found 12" flour tortillas in one - perfect for burritos. Anyway, I don't think I've eaten much meat for the past couple of weeks - and I haven't felt this good in a long time. Brown rice, tortillas, hot jalapeno peppers (home grown last summer and frozen for use now), garlic, herbs, salsa, havarti cheese, and spinach make for a quite tasty burrito.

You'll note that I included frozen jalapenos in my recipe. I'm not so opposed to importing food, or eating frozen veggies. In fact, I think it's nearly mandatory to enjoy a well balanced diet year-round, depending on your location, of course. Clearly someone who lives in Nome, Alaska can't eat only foods grown withing 50 miles of their home all year. Although the Eskimos thrived that way, but then they developed a taste for raw whale blubber.

 

[toggleswitch]

Kelly:
All kidding aside.

Thank you for teaching us how to think. Thinking is exceedingly rare these days.

 

[gizmo]

Sorry Kelly I don't buy it at all.

The foods growing around you didn't get there naturally, they have been planted there by human intervention. Most of the staples of our modern diet have been imported from other cultures, often carefully developed over generations to suit local conditions.
I think the survivors of Chernobyl wouldn't want anything grown within 50 miles.
Organics isn't just about producing a better quality product, in fact often supporters of organics urge us to slightly lower our standards of the final product - "give me spots on my apples, but leave me the birds and the bees." It is about producing food in a way that doesn't destroy the environment and doesn't make the farmers sick. Agricultural chemicals are responsible for serious illnesses in farmers, both due to accidental poisonings and due to long term exposure to small doses of the chemicals. Of course they are not all equal, some are much more hazardous than others.
I recall a TV debate some years ago here, a supporter of organic farming had explained what he thought was a better way to farm than current methods at the time. An old farmer in the audience objected, calling out, "what would you know about farming? I've worn out three farms in my lifetime." The organics guy replied," If you'd farmed organically you wouldn't have worn out any, the first one would still be suporting you."

Here in Australia the soils are of generally low fertility, missing several vital trace minerals for growing european style crops, while few native plants have much food value. The only native Australian plant to become a reasonably common food item round the world is the Macadamia nut, which originates from Queensland. Boosting the soil fertility with chemical fertilizers has over years degraded the soil structure creating vast areas of near desert. Some of hese areas are slowly being restored either by reafforestation (planting salt tolerant tree species) or by farming with organic methods, still a slow process taking many years to become viable.

I am not fanatical about organics, maybe 20% of my food is organically grown. When my new house is completed, our next big project is a good size vege garden and a greenhouse, and we will grow organically. But I think your post seriously trivializes and distorts what organic growers and purchasers are trying to achieve.

Chris.

 

[mixfinder]

Joy

There is no right and wrong in feeding and nurturing our body. It is believing what you do are doing makes a difference, for you.

If a rock in your pocket makes you feel better, carry two!

Some food we eat is like High Test Rocket fuel and others like low grade ethanol. Some simply goes along for the ride.

Not all organic food is inherintly better and food grown with chemical assist is not inherintly bad.

Deep Breath.

Ask the questions as you shop,
Where did this produce or food product originate?
How much time has transpired since it's harvest?
How many miles has it traveled?
Does the country where it was grown have regulations, understanding or respect for Organic?
Was it ripe when it was harvested?
Can I, in clear conscious, accept it as Organic?
Will three times the purchase price amortize into three times the physical benefit?

Kelly

 

[sudsmaster]

Gizmo,

The best way to renew many soils is via composting. I converted a hard layer of clay on my property to near loam via composting. But it did take a few years.

I have heard that Australian soil tends to be deficient in boron. Something about it being the oldest unheaved continent, with eons of washing away many nutrients from the soil. In most places, the main issue with boron is keeping the levels below that which can adversely affect the most sensitive plants. But it is a required trace element and apparently it's relatively easy to fix in Australia - I've even head of it being applied by airplane. I would think that other trace minerals would also be relatively easy to replace, without any adverse impact on soil structure. And of course they could be mixed into compost and then applied that way.

 

[mixfinder]

So Much Fun

I perceive another connection.

As a group we are passionate.

I have not enjoyed anything, so much, in a long time as the lively reparte and insights we share.

I am feeding 100 people in 7 hours and in the midst of baking 1,000 cookies for the Mother's Day HooHaw at church tomorrow.

I am so far behind because of being held here.

I must go, but can't wait to get home tonight after 10:00 and read what has transpired.

No right, no wrong, just the beliefs and values that feed us.

So long, don't disappoint me when I get back.

Kelly

 

[mixfinder]

Chernobel

Gizmo,

Next time you are Chernobel, pack a lunch with foods grown in general region in which you live.
Just as I was attempting to impart, the food grown in Chernobel may taste good and make you feel satisfied but does not inherintly have the anti oxidents which will serve you best.
I hope you have a nice time on your trip.

Kelly

 

[frigilux]

Proponents of the macrobiotic diet have been offering similar advice for centuries. The unfortunate downside of the theory is that, living in Minnesota, my diet would consist of corn, soybeans, wheat and apples. And dandelions. Lots of those.

Kelly, your talk of fruits and vegetables makes me long for the Pike Place Market! I'm in Seattle several times a year and the first thing I do is go to the Market (or the farmer's market in Ballard) and get the best tasting fruits and vegetables I've ever had. While I'm too stubborn to leave Minnesota permanently, Seattle is definitely my second home.

 

[panthera]

one man's experience

Throughout the 1980s my asthma became more and more a problem. After the usual round of specialists, quacks and patent nostrums I finally reached the point where I was running pretty well on nearly two "inhalater" a week. Roughly 12 times the maximum dose recommended.
At that point my "Hausartzt" (General Practitioner) suggested I try something radical - drop all meat from my diet for six weeks.
I was desparate enough to try.
Within two weeks the asthma was back down to where it had been in the 1970s. Cool, I thought - went back to meat, the asthma went right back up.
Ok, experimentation was the key - let's see what meat, when, how often, etc. Tried everything for two more years (including bio/organisches Fleisch, jawohl).
Had some friends set up a double-blind (not easy, but we all have a background in the natural sciences or cooking so doable). Turns out even if neither I nor my host knew there was meat in my food the asthma attacks came back.
At that point I decided it was neither hysterical nor extreme to chose breathing over a niece cut of beef.
Today, 17 years + later I still have the asthma under control and have the blood tests every year to "prove" that I am not missing anything vital. Fish, interestingly enough doesn't cause problems.
I don't know if this would be relevant for anyone else, certainly there is enough empirical evidence to suggest that meat and disease have certain connections. Unfortunately the "erhobene Zeigefinger" mentality of too many organic converts alienates the "normal" people so much that it is hard to have a rational discussion - see this thread.
(Sorry - erhobene Zeigefinger = "I know what is better for you than you do.")

 

[mixfinder]

Veg Head

I enjoy the bounty every thing nature has to offer, much of it visible from my condo at the crest of Capitol Hill with the Olympics and Elliot Bay in View.
Mt Rainier is out the bedroom window.
Mountain sitings are so rare it gets almost as much press as the seeing the Loch Ness monster. Peter says its because the warmth of the sun makes fog from the snow.
There is a Farmer's market two blocks from home on east side of Broadway.
Truck Farmers from Skagit and Yakima county filled the booths.
I shop for most of the produce I eat and use at MacPhearsons on Beacon Hill.
The produce under cover is primo and about 40% less than the store.
The bins near the parking are about 60 % less.
The bins on the east side near street hold produce that you can, on the spot, before you get home.
They almost give it away.
Last year I bought a 30 pound crate of Key Limes for $1.00. I had lime juice and marmelaide for months.
I go with out of town friends to the market, but oddly enough, other than flowers for the table, I have never bought fish or produce at the market.
Thanks for asking, its nice to chat. I lived in the midwest fo 8 years and really liked it. The killer thunder storm, blizzards and ice storms are fascinating. I have multiple yeloma and heat feels good. I am odd enough to like humidity. My daughter and her husband asked Daddy to come, help and be the nanny.
I'll be in the midwest in December.
Kelly

 

[frigilux]

Kelly--- I know the neighborhood you live in. It's a cool area! The friends I stay with are just up the hill from the Fremont shopping area (which has become, sadly, very corporate the past few years), just a couple of blocks from the zoo. They're sort of on the cusp between the Fremont and Ballard 'hoods.

 

[neptunebob]

You can even do better on the energy quiz....

On the Areva energy quiz, they recommend buying fresh food when possible. Turns out that fruits coming from far away ripen aboard the ship or airplane, releasing more CO2.

This time of year they have farmers markets on some stops on the PA turnpike, it's a good place to get jellies and honey as well as fresh fruit.

 

[mixfinder]

Ripen on the Way

Phyto Chemicals and anti oxidants, form in plants in the final stages of ripening.
Much of the produce in US supermarket is picked before ripened.
The green produce is transported to warehouses for finishing.

I believe this could be a contributing factor in the increase in autoimmune disease in the US.

It is not my assertion that eating produce from other areas or produce that wasn't picked ripe is inherintly bad for you.

I believe produce that is grown close to where you live and in it's season has more antioxidants and vitamins.

I realize there are areas where you can't grow produce such as the North Pole.

These statements are not absolutes, just musings.

Kelly