Other equipment that uses vacuum motors

[mathewhebailey0]

I was looking at the vacuumland page & come to think of it,besides vacuums,there are other equipment that use vacuum motors. Through Film-Tech,there ar film platters that use vacuum motors which are the Strong,Ballantyne,Potts & CFS platters. These are actually two stage Lamb & Ametek motors modified for the platters.

 

[aquarius1984]

dont forget that also

those machines in supermarkets that cashiers put money from the till into a pod type thing and it shoots down ducting to a secured safe room. We have a large vacuum motor that dosnt half make a racket in the supermarket where i work. What i wouldnt give to be able to attach a hose and give it a whirl on a carpet. Lol Nick

 

[tolivac]

I have two Hamilton Beach commercial blenders that use Lamb-Ametek motors in them.Funny--didn't HB used to make their own motors-and didn't they start out making small universal and DC motors before they made appliances?
Actually a "vacuum motor" is a universal motor-a brush type armature motor with series feild windings that can be run from AC or DC power.So far it seems that Lamb-Ametek is the largest maker of them.Portable power tools use a LOT of universal motors-in their simplest form a hand router would be a perfect example--a universal motor with a switch and cord,two handles so you can hold it-and a chuck or collet attached to the motor armature shaft to hold bits or cutters.Dremel "moto-Tools" are another-a miniature "hand router"actually a "die grinder"hand held circular saws-handles,to hold the machine-guards and a foot for safety and a circular blade to cut with-driven by the motor thru a spur gear or worm gear box.And last but not least the portable hand held electric drill-another series type motor with a pistol grip handle-gearbox,variable speed switch-and a chuck to hold the bit or other rotating tool.I didn't include portable rechargeable tools since these use DC only perm magnet DC motors.
lest we forget-the portable kitchen appliances equipped with universal motors-mixers,Blenders.,some food processors.I have a DeLongHi food processor with a worm gear transmission universal motor.The disadvantage of these-not just noise-but reduced control of the blades-they coast longer than AC induction motor machines(these equipped with DC brakes)or perm magnet processors whose switches put a short across the motor when the power is interrrupted-thus stopping it instantly.A universal motor can be braked in this way-but still coasts longer than the perm mag ones.Miter saws are a good example of this application-the blade brake when the trigger switch is released-so the machine will meet OSHA safety standards.Without the lectronic brake the blade would take considrable time to stop-and still be dangerous.also at present --universal motors are easy to control with elec tronic contollers-they are cheaper to implement than the VFD's for AC motors-that would explain their use as supply-takeup motor drives for the film platters.Both the speed and torque of the motor is easily contolled for this use so as not to damage the film the platter is handling.

 

[compactc9]

"dont forget that also
those machines in supermarkets that cashiers put money from the till into a pod type thing and it shoots down ducting to a secured safe room. We have a large vacuum motor that dosnt half make a racket in the supermarket where i work. What i wouldnt give to be able to attach a hose and give it a whirl on a carpet. Lol Nick"

These vacuum tube things do use the same motors as vacuum cleaners. Usually, these motors are used in central vacuums, because thy are too big, heavy and loud for a regualr portable.

Using one of those big motors on a carpet, with a good powernozzle does a very good job. I usually go for 2 of them tho.

 

[buffalo-joe]

Kodak Copiers and Digital Printers

Working in the Digital Printing Division of Kodak, We use Ametek Lamb motors to feed paper into the printers. Vacuum holds the paper down on perforated belts. The motors we use from them now are the brushless DC type motors that are just coming into use in vacuums. Rainbow, I believe, is now using brushless motors in their vacs. We also use cyclone separators to filter the paper dust and toner dust that's generated in the dry ink printing process. We patented that cyclone in the mid 70's. Been at Kodak 25 years now. Mostly in the printer division.

Joe

 

[compactc9]

Infinitek

I am curious, how long do these new SR Lamb motors last? I know I have heard they have had some trouble with them, like most new things, there are bugs. I know Rainbow was the first vacuum to use a SR motor, and I really like the idea.

7.2 Inch Motor Gasket, how2mtr

7.2 Inch Motor Gasket, how to change motor | MD Central Vacuum, Industry Experts

builtinvacuum.com

 

[tolivac]

The only things to fail in the SR motor itself is the bearings and windings-In some applications these motors have run for 20,000Hrs-the life of the bearings before service.The other factor would be the electronics that drive them.
So far the SR motor in my Rainbow hasn't given me any problems.Its been rumored the new Dyson DC12 canister vacuum is going to use a version of the SR motor designed by Mr. Dyson-He calls it the "Digital Motor"
I would think SR motors-esp the larger industrial ones that replace induction motors could be rebuilt as easily as induction ones.The only things in the motor itself you would need to replace are bearings and windings.the rotor is a cog shaped peice of iron.
The SR motor is NOT a DC motor-it is a form of AC motor-The elec tronic controller that operates it generates a pulse or square waveform to run the motor.If you fed pure DC into it-you would burn out the windings.The motor controller could operate from a DC source or supply or AC for that matter.The motor controller converts the supply voltage fed to its controller to the appropriate waveform,frequency and voltage to run the SR motor.The speed and torque of the SR motor is controlled by the frequency and duration of the pulses fed to it.I could imagine the SR motor could replace induction and universal motors in various appliances and equipments in the future.The Lamb SR motor shown in the link is intended for a wet-dry vacuum-the motor is easily sealed from the moisture-and if the windings were sealed properly-the moisture wouldn't be a problem.The moisture could hurt the bearings though.

 

[compactc9]

I guess what they were having some issues with were the circuit borads that controll it.

Another interesting site. This is sort of like Europe's Lamb. This is also the company that makes Miele's vortex motor.

Electric motors & components | Domel

High performance and Ultra-High Efficiency electric motors - Domel’s advantage is creating customised, sustainable and inovative drive solutions.

www.domel.si

 

[mathewhebailey0]

Also,gearless (direct drive) traction elevator hoist motors are now smaller & compact due to their use of permanent magnets. Mitsubishi & Kone being one of the first to produce them. Others like Thyssen Krupp (Dover) & Otis being the recent.
As an experiment with a small capacity gearless traction dumbwaiter whether or not high speed/high rise,I think a Bodine e Torq motor would serve as a gearless dumbwaiter hoist.

 

[tolivac]

Another device that uses a vacuum motor is the Kitchentec Grain grinder-It uses the vacuum motor blower to circulate and cool grains being ground in the Micronic grinder.Such grinders are used on a larger scale for commercial flour grinding and other foods and pharmecuticals.

http://www.blendtec.com/productDetails.aspx?id=5

 

[nasadowsk]

In industry, the VFD basically has killed the market for DC motors beyond small applicance size. A good # of elevators are AC VFD, and they're universal in pumping and sewage. They've displaced even wound rotor motors.

The last real hold out, beyond some obscure machine tool and light duty stuff, was chemical injection. Last I checked, Milton Roy does DC on special order only now - it's all AC otherwise. Especially paired up with the newer VFDs (like ABB's DTC stuff), AC just has great control - and the advantages of practically nothing to maintain.

 

[tolivac]

VFD drives can even be used for wound rotor motors-A wound rotor motor is another type of induction motor.Its designed so the rotor windigs can be brought out for external connection out of the motor-in normal induction motors they are shorted on the rotor.The rotor windings in the WR motor can be (Secondary )can then be connected to a variable value rotor load resistor-or to another controller.
The Domei motor website in interesting-but the Meile vacuum cleaner motors are made in house by Meile-Domei makes a "Vortex" style motor similar to Meiles.
Older newspaper and other types of printing presses used DC motors-would be they are now VFD AC motors.Remember watching a printing press at a local newspaper-they only had to run it for 20min to print out the newspaper copies they needed.Reember the rectifier-control cabinets that rectified tthe 220V AC three phase to run the two large press motors.Was intersting watching that press "ramp" up in speed,then "ramp" back down when the printing session was over-and that LOUD bell that would ring when the press was started-and the pressman yelling "CLEAR" before he pressed the start button.Some serious machinery there-you would not want to get wrapped up in a newspaper press!

 

[tolivac]

Also on those film platters-you folks that work in the movie theaters could help-I remember reading on the "Film-Tech" website about some of the projectionists that participate in their chatroom mention about their platters failing or not properly feeding or taking up film.They comment that they replaced the "Vacuum cleaner" belt on the motor that drives the platter deck-My question is--Is the platter deck actually belt driven from the motor by a pulley system-or does the belt fit around a "capstan" on the motor shaft that rides against the edge of the platter deck?I was trying to remember the brand of platter that used the vacuum cleaner belts-they mention flat Eureka or Kirby belts as replacements.One of them mentioned he had to rush to a vacuum store to get replacement belts before the show was to run.

 

[spinout]

Motor stuff...

Let me get this out of the way first:

Quoting from above, "....SR motor designed by Mr. Dyson-He calls it the "Digital Motor"."

Digital motor? Yea right. Mr. Dyson is so full of shit. The only thing that he seems able to design is marketing slogans. I'm sorry, but it is an insult to the intelligence of any proper engineer to even mention Dyson's name in the same sentence as design (or on this board, for that matter). The guy is a fraud. Snake oil, Bill of goods, etc..

**I feel better now**

ON VFD. It is here, it does work, but it's sort of a fad right now. It does have significant limitations and is perhaps somewhat overated. There are inherit limitations to their usefulness, esp. beyond certain narrow [frequency] ranges of useful torque output. Those limitations are core saturation at low frequencies and core (eddy current) losses and heating at higher frequencies. Sorry guys, but you can't defy physics.

If you reduce the frequency, you must increase the core volume or cut back on the applied voltage to avoid saturation, so you can imagine what this does for torque. And similarly, losses limit the high end, unless you want to turn your motor into an induction heater. With respect to the latter point, special core materails and thinner laminations can be used that will improve high frequency operation.

Anyway, if you really want torque, you go wound rotor. Permanent magnets are a good runner up. And if you want a broad, flat torque range over your variable speed, DC motors still present the beat choices.

And to paraphrase Shakeshpere, A DC motor by any other name smells just as sweet; or in other words, is still a DC motor.

 

[sudsmaster]

The windshield wipers on my '50 Plymouth sedan are powered by boosted engine vacuum. It can be quite powerful. I replaced the original on mine with a rebuilt one, and I was surprised (and almost injured) when I tested it out. The intake manifold vacuum is boosted by an interesting little vacuum pump that runs off the camshaft. So the wipers don't stop dead when under hard acceleration, although the regulator valve may have to be adjusted manually at that point to keep them going. Then of course downhill they will go nuts and too fast if another manual adjustment isn't made. It's all part of the charm of driving a car of that vintage.

Vacuum motors are also used in servicing auto air conditioning units. Just how, I don't know. We use a little vacuum motor to hold some odd shaped plastic parts in place at work for machining operations.

Hand held vacuum pumps can be used to test the integrity of engine valves.

And of course, whenever you drink through a straw, you are using a vacuum principle. OK, I won't dwell on it.

 

[tolivac]

Yes I can agree on the VFD drives-They can only operate in a narrow frequency range.Go outside the limits-the motor efficiency goes down-and the motor overheats.Also the HP rating of the motor is derated.I remember experimenting with a homemade "VFD" years ago-An audio generator connected to an Altec Lansing 300W Amp driving a motor off a 120V sec winding on the amps output transformer.Tried it with an old induction teletype motor-The motor was designed for 60Htz-I could go down to 50Hz-and the motor would still run but the torque dropped off and both the motor and amp overheat.then you go higher in frequency-again the torque dropped off-but the motor or amp didn't overheat.My device was more crude than what is used now-but would think the results would be similar.With the switching type VFD motor drives today-the motor windings have to be better insulated or the high frequency "carrier" spikes could puncture the stator winding insulation.Some companies make Filter reactors that connect between the VFD drive device and the motor to further filter out the switching pulses.This is especially important with older motors being used on VFD drives.
I think Spinout is right on the DC drives-they are being overlooked-and were the mainstays of industry.the DC motor can be controlled over a WIDER speed range without torque or power loss.The railroad locomotive industry demenstrated this-but they have now gone to VFD traction motor drives.For decades locomotives used Compound wound DC motors for traction-when the train is started-the traction motors are connected as series motors for max torque-than as the train builds up speed-the motors are switched to shunt wound.In older DC locomotives-this was done manually.In newer ones-automatically.Kinda like thinking of a manual transmission in a car and an automatic one.
I can agree Mr Dyson is "full of Shit"I was just quoting some of what I saw in some ad copy.I don't think he can get any credit for "inventing" the SR motor.Rainbow was using it in their vacuums before he was.I have an SR motor equipped Rainbow.Also Lamb-Ametek was making SR vacuum cleaner motors along with Emerson's SR motor division before Mr. Dyson came along.
Anoher point of the WR motors -the torque and speed can be easily controlled-you can use them to start massive loads without damage to the motor or its load.I have a book that explains how WR motors are used in the large construction cranes you see at building sites.They would use two-one to power the winch for lifting and lowering loads-the other to swing the crane.Square "D" makes the controllers.

 

[tolivac]

Vacuum motors are also used in player pianos-they are loaded with them.The most significant is the roll drive motor.It is comprised of sevral bellows pnuematics arranged in a circle-they act like "pistons" in an engine and drive a small crankshaft that drives the rool mechanism.The "tempo" control on the piano acts a a speed control-varying the amount to vacuum going to the roll drive motor from the piano vacuum bellows pump.And the "rewind" control reverses the motor at full speed to rewind the roll at end of play-in some intruments-Vacuum read band organs with duplex roll mechanisms for contnious play-a perforation in the roll activates the automatic roll rewind-and even recues the roll to play again when the other roll runs out.Wurlitzer and Artizan organs are good examples.Vacvuum is also used to "read" or play the roll.The perforations activate the keys in the piano or operate valves in the organ to sound the pipes,or play the drums,bell bars,cymbals, with another pnuematic motor.

 

[johnb300m]

Vacuum motors

I've always been wondering, since i took my electronics/motors class last year...why vacuum motors are so FREAKIN' LOUD!? It's just electricity and magnetism. I have a Bissel bagless and the motor's one of the quieter vacuum motors i've experienced. most of its noise is air velocity. But then there's the Dirt Devil vacuum my friend has that is SO loud [this is motor loud] that your ears start to bleed after 5 minutes.
What's the deal? shitty bearings? brush friction?
what's the RPM of your average vacuum cleaner motor? is it the intense speed that makes them loud?

 

[tolivac]

The loundness of the vacuum and its motor could be several things-the design of the motor and the fans its turning-and the fan housings.Yes,universal vacuum cleaner motors run at high speeds so you will get usable suction and air pressure from a small fan and motor.And this compact size makes the machine light enough to be portable.And the compact motors and fans are less expensive.Have you seen the very large stationary vacuum cleaners at car washes?these have a large vacuum blower unit driven a typically a 1800-3450 RPM ionduction motor note the size of the fan housings-very large aren't they to get the suction for the vac.And they may be 3-four or even more fan stages to get the vacuum pressure from the lower RPM motor.The induction motor is used on these since they are run a lot-universal brush motors wouldn't withstand that-you would be constantly replacing the brushes.Brush life on most vacuum cleaner motors is around 500Hrs.Some motors it may be 2500Hrs or more.The brushes are carrying the current needed to energize the motor armature(the part that turns the motor load)-for vacuum cleaners the fans and perhaps the brush roll.Also pipe organ blowers are like the blower units used at car washes.For some organs-the blowerr may have 8 or even 10fans or stages to generate the pressure required.The fans are in series with each other-the output of one fan blows to the intake of another.
Back to noise-it could be bad bearings-the motor may not be mounted in a foam rubber "cushion mount"-most expensive vacs mount the motor in a foam rubber or plastic mount to muffle the noise.When the fan spins in the housing-it can make a "siren effect"the fan blades passing rapidly across the discharege or other opening causing a noise-like a siren.Sirens work in this way-picture a vacuum cleaner fan housing with several holes punched in it-as the fan spins-the air blown thru the holes and the effect of the fan blades makes the wailing siren sound.air path design in the vacuum cleaner can make noises-esp if the air path resonates like an organ pipe.On some vacuums-you can almost "play" it by externding-contracting the hose-I used a 3M "computer vac" that would do that.In general most of the noise will come from the fan and housing-air path if the bearings are good-if the bearings are bad-they will make a most unmistakable racket.Vacuum cleaner motors typically run at speeds of 8,000 to 30,000 RPM. Some switched reluctance vacuum cleaner motors may rev up to 100,000RPM.
Most vacuum cleaner motors have one or two fan stages.Some have a radical new fan and fan housing design-they can get the same vacuum level and airflow from one fan that you would normally get from two stages.Meile "Vortex" motors are an example-If you are at a Meile vacuum dealer politely ask him to show you the Vortex motor-only takes him a few minutes to open a Meile cansiter vac to show you-The fan housing and fan is VERY diffrent from regular vacuum cleaner motor-fan assemblies.The housing and fan are tapored-Large at the intake and small at the discharge.Regular fans and housing s are not.also the Meile motor is mounted on a very well designed cushion mount to silence it.Other vacuum cleaner makers are starting to make suction motor fan assemblies similar to Meiles.