Oy vey....KD2 is a Bad Girl

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toploader55

toploader55

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
7,091
Location
Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod
I corrected the "Cork" issue on the Drain Manifold,Lubed the Fan Motor (Which actually came out good), but the Poor Dear still pumps out during the Wash And Rinse cycles, and the drain valve leaks like a sieve. Even after I WD-40'ed her. I'm ferklempt. I guess I'm going to have to go with Robert's suggestion and that's hook up a Newer KD drain Valve. I'll miss that "Klunk" when the old solenoid opens and closes. I'll have to get use to the "click" the newer machines make or now made. Man I'll tell you when she's running, Wow !!!! Serious Water Pressure going inside that baby.

1-5-2008-19-10-23--toploader55.jpg
 
There should be two springs on the lever that actuates the drain valve. I only see one spring in your photo. I assume you sprayed the WD-40 on the post that the lever actuates? If it moves freely, then perhaps the solenoid that pulls the valve open or closed is defective (I forget which it does). You should observe the solenoid and the lever when the machine stops its pre-wash purge and is supposed to slam the valve shut. If it's working, and the valve shaft is moving in response to the solenoid, then perhaps the valve itself is defective.

The valve might be damaged, or perhaps it has some foreign matter in it preventing a full closure. If you move it manually, does it feel like it closes, or is it a vague feeling?

Unfortunately from my recollection when I restored my KD2P, the whole pump/valve assembly is rather bulky large cast iron part and it doesn't look like an easy job to service - might have to pull it from the tub and then the fun starts.
 
Hmmmmmmmm...

Robert had suggested in my previous thread to by-pass the whole drain solenoid and go with a later model KitchenAid Valve. There are 2 springs on the solenoid. The valve however does not close on the "Warm up" purge before the Main Wash. With my expierience on commercial machines, I would have to say that a drain valve assy. would be that of a Hobart UM-4. If I could get a confirmation on that, I think I know where I could get a brand new one. There is a Hobart Dealer not far from here and I was able to find 2 cast iron fittings in the box for a old Hobart AM machine. But I am really liking Robert's idea about bypassing the whole mess, sealing up the leaks and move on to the next project. However, it will probably bug me until it fixed to the original specifications.
 
The valve is not supposed to close during the warm-up purge. It's supposed to be fully open so that the water from the previous wash session is removed, and the lower half of the tub gets warmed up with hot water from the faucet. Once this pre-wash purge is over, the solenoid should slam the valve shut with a very audible bang, and then there should be no water coming out of the drain hose until the scheduled drain parts of the cycle.

I did notice a little seepage from the valve shaft when I serviced it, but have never noticed it to be a problem. Perhaps there are some drops being caught by the lower pan on the washer (which is probably there for that reason).

In addition to what I mentioned in the collection photos, I also had to replace the high temp cutoff sensor button (the heater wasn't heating very much until then), and the water supply valve. It had already been replaced once before by persons unknown, and they had done sort of a hack job that didn't allow for proper routing of the hoses when stowed. I was able to find a reasonably close match to what I figured was the original configuration at an appliance parts store. I also lengthened the hoses by about 2 feet so that the washer could sit at the end of the counter and not have to be moved to the sink for a wash session. Oh, and I put larger wheels on it so that if it has to be moved, it will have an easier time on the brick floor of the patio kitchen.
 
"Man I'll tell you when she's running, Wow !!!! Serious Water Pressure going inside that baby"

KitchenAid ran an ad for this machine showing the lid open and water flying. They said something like: IF you could operate it with the lid open (which you can't) it would pump water ten feet into the air.

The double walls of the tub muffle a lot of noise. Placing a folded towel on the lid, but not over the steam vent, muffles noise and holds in heat
 
I've never seen a gap like that on the "fill funnel" what's that about, to deter back siphoning? Really cool machine underneath, mechanically, like an old Buick, what you see is what you get.
 
Did you miss something???

Hey guys, I posted a response on the other thread about switching to the more modern drain valve conversion. You really cannot modify this machine to accomodate the new style without making some electrical modifications.

As far as checking for debris in the valve, you should be able to put your fingers into the oblong hole in the sump and feel the plunger inside the valve. If there is debris, you would have to remove the valve from the motor housing and clean it away. However, let's assume that the filters did their jobs and there is not much that ever got down into the reservoir and drain pump.

That being the case, water would drain continuosly for these reasons:
1. The solenoid that is supposed to energize to close the valve is not working.
2. The spring that the solenoid pulls up on that attches to the drain plunger lever is bad, missing or broken.(but it looks to be there)
3. The lever itself is actually stuck and not moving in and out.
4. The o-ring on the plunger inside the valve is missing or worn out.

A Stainless steel drain seat was incorporated into the design of the drains so that the plunger o-ring would always have a clean surface to seat on. The older design was only the cast iron seating surface on the motor housing which would always rust and cause leaks.

Here are the part numbers for these parts..exactly the same parts used on the Hobart UM-4 Series of machines.

As I have mentioned, Hobart's commitment to supply spares for discontinued machines like this one ran out in 1994. So you may really have to search for some of them but you may just get lucky!

77818 Drain valve assy complete(incleds valve to motor gasket and plunger o-ring
87714-3-1 Solenoid
64165-1 Spring Solenoid to Drain valve
64161 Return Spring
67500-27 Plunger O-ring
63984 drain valve gasket(valve to motor)
74692 Seat Drain Valve
If you get to yoour local Hobart office, just ask to see the parts manuals for any of the UM series machines and then see what is still available.
 
stevet

Thanks for the info.Today, I am going to call the Hobart Dealer in New Bedford. If they have the parts I'll buy all the UM parts they have and share them with anyone in the club.I would like to get the whole drain assy. replaced. I am off tomorrow and am going UM hunting. here on Cape Cod, there are a few still kicking around. As a matter of fact I know where there is one sitting in a friends basement. I'll see if he can part with it. Thank-you for all the info. Are you a Hobart Tech ? We'll have to chat about the older Commercial Machines sometime. Eddie
 
Truth be Told!

How did you guess, Toploader? Yes I am once again a Hobart Technician down here in Florida..Started in the New York Office as the Parts manager back in 1979 and did actual field service for about a year and then returned to parts and then managed the branch there. Left them in '89 and went to a private commercial equipment repair company for another 15 years..learned about how other manufacturers did things and then returned to Hobart in 2004 here in Florida as a field tech.
Sudsmaster.. the commercial machines all lacked an actual soap dispenser as the user had the option of having a soap dispensing system installed by a commercial supplier like Ecolab or would use a powdered detergent formulated for commercial machines. Highly caustic to eat away at the fats and greases. Used all the time in a domestic unit and the porcelain glaze would be eaten thru in a few years.
If I had ever known that there would be a site like this, I woold have never thrown out anything I had from the good old machines.
Good luck, Toploader.. I hope your buddy parts with his machine. You may want it in your own home.. then we can work on rewiring it to work with the flo thru valve! But then again, you probably have a basement so you could drop the drain right thru the floor or..if you get one of the low profile units, you can put it on a stand and gravity drain it to your sink plumbing if all is right! I could actually do that here in Florida without the basement.. my sink drain comes straight up thru the cabinet from the floor!..Hmm. maybe I better start looking around here too.
 
Read it and weep!

Toploader,

If you want to get yourself a new drain valve, part number 77818 which includes the valve, gasket,& stainless steel sleeve insert, you might want to hurry as there are only TWO(2) left in the main warehouse in Piqua, Ohio. There is no guarantee that they will replenish that stock when they are gone.

If you do want them, you can get them at your local Hobart office but go and rob a bank first or get your credit card limit increased!

The current list price for the vlave is now $263.00 give or take a few cents!

I can remember when they were less than 100 bucks.

I was lucky enough to sell a motor for a UM a few years back, that I had gotten from my friend(since reiterd) from KitchenAid Division in Troy, before the sale to WP. This was actually a KD12 motor which would accept the drain pump and was used in the UM's for a short period of time.
He sent it to me for free and then when I was working for another service company, we had a customer who had an iquiry for a motor from a european customer. Seemed like I wound up with the last motor in this country and was lucky enough to sell it for well over 600 bucks. Wish I had more of them.

Let me know how you make out.

Just remember that the water reservoir attatched to the bootom of the valve will have to be removes and will be very difficult to get off. Soak it in some safe for plastic lubricant and hope that it separates. Same goes for the water pump if it needs to be removed.
 

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