POD: 6/19/11 1960 TOL Whirlpool Washer

[frigilux]

I see there was a tradition of letting the Kenmore brand get cutting-edge technology before Whirlpool was allowed to have it that predated the modern front-loaders.

I'm thinking specifically of one-touch pushbutton control panels (on Kenmores 1959-61) and self-cleaning lint filters (also introduced on the Lady Kenmore in 1959). Using the waterfall filtering system as a powdered detergent dispenser is a nice feature. I think the 1960 LK introduced a liquid detergent dispenser, possibly automatic.

A very stylish console, though, and I love the agitator cap. Can anyone read (or recall) what it says on the console by the Gentle Action cycles, numbers 5 and 6? Also: what does the little button to the upper left of the control dial say? I think I need new bifocals, LOL. [this post was last edited: 6/19/2011-08:05]

 

[akronman]

I have that EXACT machine

I was lucky to find that exact machine, and many VERY HELPFUL folks here gave great advice and patience while I restored it.

Pushbutton upper left of Dial says PRE-WASH RINSE, it's a 2 minute agitate, then drain and spin cycle, used either as prewash, or as a second rinse. Upper right button near dial is suds, simply activates the dry agitation for 3-4 minutes. The 2 rows of 5 buttons each are all full cycles. See my various pictures.

Cycle 5 says DELICATE WHITE SHEERS, #5 says DELICATE COLORED SHEERS.

Please ask any other questions, I'm happy to answer what I can from this machine. While I am familiar with Kenmore, this exact Imperial Mark XII from Whirlpool is currenlty the only WP-KM in my collection.

Pro's-------excellent turnover, good rinsing, lots of cycles for regular--perm--delicates, 2 speeds, 4 temps of water from that 3 solenoid valve, rarely gets out fo balance. Excellent job of detergent dispensing, and bleach and fabric softener. Truly just load machine, loads compartments, hit one button and leave.

Cons---slow WP spin-extraction, longest wash time is only 10 minutes. Also, those cooldown cycles were quite the rage back then, I find them to be a waste. And there's at least 2 sprays during final spin, kinda ruins most of the fabric softening.

 

[mickeyd]

Love the chrome, too.

Yes, Eugene, I agree with you, on the one hand; but on the other hand, how cool that although the TOL WP has a more labor intensive filter, it is so much more fun and more beautiful than a hidden self-cleaner, for anyone who loves washers like we do. So maybe WP secretly believed that theirs was the more luxurious machine.

 

How I wish my LK had a chrome & glass capped water fall instead of an invisible self-cleaner

 

Isn't it great that Mark has one of these magnificos?

 

[frigilux]

Mark--Thanks for the answers and for the informative cycle chart inside the lid! Our 1960 Kenmore (and the 1959 LK I had for awhile) both had an unbalanced load switch with buzzer. Did Whirlpools also have this feature? I'm also surprised that the longest wash time is 10 minutes. My '59 Lady Kenmore and the '60 Model 80 I grew up with had a 12-minute wash for the Whites/Heavy Soil cycle.

Mickeyd--What?! That's all real chrome and not cheap-feeling chrome-colored plastic, as with my new Frigidaire washer, LOL? Those were the days, weren't they? And I'm with you: I'll take the fun-to-watch waterfall, anytime. I'm pretty sure that my '59 LK had a waterfall, even though it had a self-cleaning filter. I only had that beautiful washer for about 1-1/2 years, and it wasn't hooked up the entire time, so my memory of specific features is a little hazy. I don't think they kept the waterfall coupled with the self-cleaning filter very long, as later Kenmores lacked one.

 

[maytagbear]

Eugene-

Ma's and my '64 Whirlpool Imperial did NOT have an out of balance buzzer or switch, we just got very good at making the sprint to the basement to shut off the machine and redistribute the load!

It was amazing to me when we got the A208 in 1978, and it had a out of balance switch.........

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[frigilux]

Lawrence-- Thanks for the info. The reason I asked is because the off-balance buzzer was heard regularly in in our house, and I can't imagine the machine banging away against the cabinet without the automatic shut-off feature.

Later Edit: I'd forgotten for a moment that I once owned a large capacity, belt-drive Whirlpool, circa 1985. It had a winged Surgilator. I had it only a year before moving, and it went with the house, so my recollections of it are hazy. I don't recall it having an off-balance shut-off, but I also don't recall making any mad dashes to rescue it from an unbalanced load, either. I also recall it having a 4-minute neutral drain and far fewer suds-lock issues in the first spin than did the 1960 Model 80 Kenmore it replaced.[this post was last edited: 6/19/2011-16:57]

 

[akronman]

More WP

Frigilux----my WP Imperial does NOT have an out of balance buzzer, it just keeps spinning and making noise and doing its best. Most of the time, the neutral drain settles the clothes in an even ring, I really can't complain.

And I forgot to mention the filter-----it's great. I'd hate a self-cleaning hidden filter, I"d never see it do its work! And the MagicMix plexiglass window, you can watch the powder getting mixed in with the water when agitation first starts. When rinsing agitation starts, you can watch the blue or pink or green water, depending upon your softener brand, as it hits the waterfall and mixes with the clothes. It's fun.

The ten minute wash is hot, so if I want more time on either that cycle or one of the 8 or 6 minute warm ones, I just turn off the machine for 5 or 10, no big deal.

Here's a pic with the filter out, you can see that the flow of water is plentiful,easily dissolves powder, mixes softener, bleach, etc, right when needed.

Also, I looked at that picture of mine up the thread, the lid with cycle explanations-----I guess I would add 2 or 4 minutes to wash in various cycles, If I wanted a really PERFECT washer. I don't understand any short cycle only being so quick as 2 minutes, and I don't understand the longest as only 10. 14 down to 4 would be great, anything longer should just sit and soak anyhows.

 

[appnut]

Short cycles

Mark, look at things from this perspective.  When Whirlpool first came out with the gentle cycle, I believe the max wash time was likke 4 minutes, maybe 6 at the very most.  Back then, that cycle was reserved for the sheerest of fabrics.  Kenmores generally had 6 minutess initially and expanded to 8 minutes.  As Whirlpool evolved and have a Wn'nW and PP cycle the gentle cycle was maxed out at 6 minutes.  I believe the onlyu time Whirlpool had an 8 minute gentle cycle was when they started ofering a Knits cycle in the later 1960s that was separate from the gentle cycle and that added cycle also had one cool-down phase.  Yoou can still attain a 14 minute wash if you're willing to do the following:  Let it agitate for about 4 minutes or so.  Stop the machine and turn the timer dial all the way around back to the beginning of the whites cycle.  If at the 6 minute mark on normal it won't let you stop the machine by pushing in the timer or pulling it out (I cannot remember which does the stop and start on that vintage WP), simply push the prewash button while it's agitating, then stop the machine.  Advance the timer a little bit, then push the whitees cycle button again and follow on around to the beginning of the cycle.  Button pushing and timer changing are fun for us moost obsessed and yields what you want. 

 

[kenmoreguy64]

Whirlpools and off-balance relays

I could very well be wrong, but I don't think any Whirlpools had the off-balance relay - I think that was a Kenmore only feature that Sears wrote into their specs.

I have mixed feelings about these relays. In some machines the baseplate can dent the cabinet if it is allowed to strike hard enough or often enough. The relay would largely prevent that. On the other hand, those relays can be problematic and expensive to fix. I have one machine that wants to buzz all the time and do nothing else unless the relay is giggled just right, and another that doesn't work...if the baseplate strikes it, it very momentarily cuts power to the motor, but then lets it turn right back on and resume.

As far as Kenmore having features that WP didn't - at least some of these features were either originated or designed by Sears staff. I don't think the situation was as much Whirlpool "letting" Sears have certain things as it was that those certain things were Sears' property to begin with.

Gordon

 

[frigilux]

Gordon--Now that you mention it, we had numerous problems with the kick-out relay on our 1960 washer. Ours was the one-touch pushbutton style cycle selector, with a rapid advance timer mechanism. There was a Cycle Hold toggle switch which had the same function as pulling out (or pushing in, depending on the model/brand) cycle dial.

When the buzzer would trip, you were supposed to activate the Cycle Hold switch, open the lid, redistribute the load, close the lid, and flip the Cycle Hold switch to the up position, which would resume the cycle. What started happening was this: You'd flip the switch, redistribute the load, close the lid, flip the switch back up and...the buzzer would sound again. This was "fixed" a couple of times by a Sears repairman. Finally, he rigged it so you wouldn't use the Cycle Hold switch at all. You'd open the lid and the buzzer would stop and the motor would start running again. Of course if it took a little time to balance the load, the spray rinses would get your arm wet.

It seemed my '85 Whirlpool was far better at handling out-of-balance loads.

Delicate Cycles: The Normal Soil delicate cycle on our 1960 Model 80 had a 4-minute wash period. The Light Soil delicate cycle had 2 minutes.[this post was last edited: 6/19/2011-22:20]

 

[kenmoreguy64]

My 1961 Kenmore 70s have a 4-minute Delicate also. I was surprised to see that when I got the first one of these two years ago - first one I'd seen since ours went down the driveway in the back of a pick-up truck in October 1974 after our new Kenmore was delivered. Sad day for me....

Off balance loads - Snubbers seem to vary machine to machine and I think there is a correlation between how well "held" a tub is by the snubber and how often clothes become unbalanced.

I will say this however - I know that this depends as well on how much attention users pay to properly loading. I hate to say it but my sister has often managed to make mine and my mother's washer walk when they never do it otherwise....

Gordon

 

[DADoES]

 

This is moving forward a long time from the machines of discussion ... but Whirlpool's direct-drive Catalyst toploader has an off-balance switch.  There's one in my garage.

 

[spankomatic]

This brings back fond memories of age 2. I remember sitting on top watching the machine agitate and all the buttons and knobs. Akronman I would love to see some close up photos of your machine.

 

Jim

 

[combo52]

KENMORE VS WHIRLPOOL FEATURES

 As explained to me by several WP people. WP engineers invent all the features that have appeared on WP & KM appliances over the years. And Sears is often given the option of a new feature if WP choses not to use it themselves if Sears will pay the development costs. In exchange for paying these costs and depending how great they are Sears is given exclusive rights to have this feature on thier appliances for a given number of years. As Sears usually sold more appliances than WP they understandably had more money to pay for the costs of developing new features and thats why they often got some cool features that WP did not get.

 

A good case of this was the Dual Action Agitator that WP invented and Sears paid the final development costs and in turn got a ten year exclusive use agreement to have it in thier washers. Interestingly when WP started selling the DD washers in the early 1980s and started getting lint complaints WP was suppling a light blue DA agitator through parts to help the problem but they couldn't build the washer that way to begin with until around 1987 when the agreement ended.

 

Off balance switches, WP generally never used them and it was really a Sears sales gimmick. Even Commercial WP BD washers never had them and many Sears machines including thier Commercial machines never had them so they obousely weren't really necessary. I removed hundreds of them from KM machines where the owner was annoyed by them. I have never seen a cabinet dented by an off-balanced load in BD washer, but I have seen many cabinets on BD washers that were dented by the base-plate hitting the cabinet when the machine had been moved from its original installation with out having its shipping blocks reinstalled. This is why you will see just as many KM BD washers with OB switches with dented cabinets as WPs, after all the switch does nothing to actually stop the base plate from slamming into the cabinet in the first place.

 

Self-Cleaning lint filters on BD machines. The first was the 1958 LM and on WP the first was the 1964 Imperial Mark 12 washer. On the first three years of KMs with this feature they still had visible water flowing back into the tub, on the 1960 machine it was through the dispenser ports at the 5 o'clock position of the tub opening.

 

[peteski50]

1960 TOL Whirlpool Washer!

This is a real awsome machine. I am surprised that the max wash time was only 10 minutes. I knew other people that had lower end models from that era either both sears and whirlpool and they offered at least 12 or 14 minutes. Sometimes it pays to buy the cheaper models for more flexability. I always liked to set my temp and time seperatly. I would like to see the other models in this 1960 series. Anyone have brochures.
Thanks,
Peter

 

[kenmoreguy64]

John -

I'm going to differ with you on a couple issues:

First, I periodically service belt-drives owned by two sisters who are Charlotte natives, one is a 1984 Kenmore the other is a 1983 WP. They have lived in their houses since the Mid 70s and early 80s, and neither machine has ever been moved from the laundry rooms, in fact I may be the only person who has moved them at all (one time I even got a call to move one machine so they could paint the laundry room). At last check the Kenmore had no cabinet dents that I noticed and it does have a relay. I will say however that I wasn't specifically looking for dents either....The WP has a mild dent on the right side, and a significant one on the front which has actually broken the paint surface and light red rust is developing. I had to sand and paint that in 2008. Since relays generally don't allow the baseplate to strike the cabinet more than once, and this happens during initial acceleration, the WP's baseplate can strike the cabinet more frequently with more force than the KM's. Unless a load is seriously out of balance, these cabinet strikes seem to stop after a few rotations of the basket as water is spun and pumped out, reducing the overall weight of the tub and thus the severity of the out of balance condition. Repeated strikes in the same place to the cabinet over a 28 year period will fatigue the metal enough to allow an impression to develop. I submit to you that some of the dents you've seen in cabinets were caused not by moving, but by repeated contact from the baseplate.

As to the DA, you have some things backwards. This was Kenmore's concept. I have been told this by several WP people also - and decades apart in time. WP would have been involved in designing and building the molds that make the auger and base agitator, and in making functional parts to allow these to work, as well WP owned the molds, however Kenmore commissioned the study on them, and thus the patent was issued accordingly. There was more than a gentlemanly agreement surrounding this agitator. This is what prevented other manufacturers from copying this design for over 15 years, not the 10 that you mentioned (late 1975 - late 1990). While it surely is true that WP offered some features to Kenmore that they either didn't want themselves or didn't want to invest cash in, the DA is not one of those. If it was, WP made a big managerial blunder in nodding to KM an idea that could have given them a marketing advantage over everyone else, including GE and Maytag. At the end of the day, WP would rather make more machines for themselves (due to higher GP per machine) and I would not suggest that WP gave the DA up just to allow KM to have it.

 

[bajaespuma]

Amalgamated Lint, Inc.

I came to the realization many years ago that I didn't want lint going down my drains from self-cleaning lint filters. Stupid idea. Aside from the havoc it can wreak on those of us with septic fields, the idea of putting lots of inert matter down the drains is just idiotic and environmentally bad. The first thing I did when I bought my first Maytag in 1995 was to replace the boring white new-styled power fin agitator (with no lint filter inside) with the old-style turquoise classic with the lint filter cylinder. Not only did I protect my septic system, but I got much better rollover from the older one.

 

[combo52]

ORIGAN OF DA AGITATORS

Its always fun to debate these things Gordon but the truth is that neither one of us were there when this came about so neither of us know for sure. But I am sticking with my story, maybe Leslie [ Magic Clean can shed some light on this ] and Mr Patent Jon may be able to look up the patents on the DAA and see who actually did invent it. And just as you said my source at WP said that WP regretted letting KM have a ten year exclusive on this idea. And the WP source said in the future that WP wouldn't let KM have so long a lead on WPs new ideas and that has been true the last 15-20 years.

 

Anyway I am off to work to see if I can break any appliances today LOL. I will try to add some other thoughts on dented cabinets later.

 

[kenmoreguy64]

I agree Jon, in fact I almost put a 'semi-rebuttal' out there after I wrote this because either you or I, or both, could have been speaking to opinionated WP personel whose personal feelings on the matters slanted their view(s) of the real situation.

I did write Leslie earlier today and he's going to ask someone he knows who he thinks will remember what was happening at the time. This should be a good source of info.

I got some of my details from a WP rep who was occasionally on the Sears Eastland warehouse dock back around the early to mid 1990s when my washer buddy and I were taking all the haul-backs from Sears for the Charlotte region. He was very pro-Sears.

Have fun breaking appliances!! I haven't tried that in a while and am overdue...

Gordon