Michael, I know my neighbor's 1964/1965 LK Combo dried as an auto dry--thermostatic dry. There was a slide lever just under the console on the left side that she always had set to maximum level of dryness.
Presenting the 1961 RCA Whirlpool Ultimatic. Another Gyromatic Production
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The combo dries in a flash!
Not quite. The cycling and compensator thermostats also control the timer motor, similar to a thermostatic auto dry cycle on a dryer but differs as this is an automatic washer timer. It needs to advance through any remaining intervals left within the dry cycle once the thermostats are fully satisfied/no longer cycling.
I should have also included the cycle of operation list, as well as the timer chart. IIRC, John E ran a load of towels through the Whirlpool, and without spinning the load in an extractor afterward, it took about 40 minutes for the dry cycle to complete.
To Bob's point above, the lint screen converted machines and later had a dryness control, although the '61 models had it inconveniently located on the back panel post conversion, with the '63 and later machines having the control located on the panel.
FYI - T.W.V = two way valve
Ben
Not quite. The cycling and compensator thermostats also control the timer motor, similar to a thermostatic auto dry cycle on a dryer but differs as this is an automatic washer timer. It needs to advance through any remaining intervals left within the dry cycle once the thermostats are fully satisfied/no longer cycling.
I should have also included the cycle of operation list, as well as the timer chart. IIRC, John E ran a load of towels through the Whirlpool, and without spinning the load in an extractor afterward, it took about 40 minutes for the dry cycle to complete.
To Bob's point above, the lint screen converted machines and later had a dryness control, although the '61 models had it inconveniently located on the back panel post conversion, with the '63 and later machines having the control located on the panel.
FYI - T.W.V = two way valve
Ben
Bin, thank you for the explanation period I always wondered why the late 50s early 60s, lady Kim Moore's had the dryness level selector on the back of the control panel facing the wall. Of course , I wasn't aware of any of that until I downloaded one or two user manuals.
Bonus points ---
Yes! With the revised upper panel for the lint screen conversion machines, they stashed the added dryness control here, conveniently located for adjustment.
Bonus points for anyone who can identify what brand/year/series this knob was used on!
Yes! With the revised upper panel for the lint screen conversion machines, they stashed the added dryness control here, conveniently located for adjustment.
Bonus points for anyone who can identify what brand/year/series this knob was used on!
ok I'll be the first to hazard guess....
Was that knob used on some 1958 Kenmore washers? To me it looks like the ones used on the 4 Star Kenmore and Lady Kenmore washers for 1958 PATRICK COFFEY
Was that knob used on some 1958 Kenmore washers? To me it looks like the ones used on the 4 Star Kenmore and Lady Kenmore washers for 1958 PATRICK COFFEY
neptunebob
Well-known member
All of this complexity just begs the question...
I know the story of how Philco-Bendix patented everything about a washer/dryer and how if Whirlpool had bought them the world of laundry would have been much different. But it then begs the question, why didn't Sears just source a Kenmore version of the machine from Philco-Bendix, especially after Whirlpool stopped making them under their own label in 1964? Again, the world of laundry might have been different had that happened and these units might have been more popular. When did these patents expire, as it had to be some time before today with the GE and LG combinations now.
I know the story of how Philco-Bendix patented everything about a washer/dryer and how if Whirlpool had bought them the world of laundry would have been much different. But it then begs the question, why didn't Sears just source a Kenmore version of the machine from Philco-Bendix, especially after Whirlpool stopped making them under their own label in 1964? Again, the world of laundry might have been different had that happened and these units might have been more popular. When did these patents expire, as it had to be some time before today with the GE and LG combinations now.
Bob, that was likely because Sears owned controlling interest in Whirlpool at that time.
29 inch whirlpool built combination washer, dryer features
The dry control was added when they made a major redesign of the 61 combination to the back of the machine because they didn’t want to redesign the looks of the control panel and it was a clever place to put it. The dryness control was there so the machine could be customized to the desire of the user for the level of dryness they preferred, the setting also had something to do with the length of ductwork that the machine was operating with.
Of the several Kenmore combinations I’ve had some for as long as 30 years in regular use. I never had to set the control any higher than the normal setting and you never changed it from low to load, Bob doesn’t surprise me that you had a neighbor that said it to maximum dry. I saw several in the field where people just put it on maximum dry figuring it would drive faster or better and we still see that with auto dry dryers today people put it on more dry or extra dry Without really needing to do so.
When the machines were built from the factory with a dryness control, they did have one model where it was right on the control panel others. It was hidden under the lint, filter door, etc..
Note that there were several top-of-the-line Kenmore dryers that also had the dryness control on the back of the machine because again it was only intended for an initial adjustment to please the owner and to make up for the installation because of exhaust duct, etc.
I count six of these machines that are in perfect working order that are in use right now there’s maybe a dozen or two dozen more in the hands of fellow collectors that can be repaired now that John E has perfected a way to repair the transmission.
The combination washer dryer failed for many reasons, not the least of which repair people even like myself badmouthed them back in the day because of complexity. My mom‘s best friend and my kindergarten teacher wanted to get one of these combination washer dryers back in the late 60s because she didn’t think she had room for a dryer and I remember as a young child back when I knew everything told her not to get one they’re nothing but trouble I was repeating what I had heard regretted that later she would’ve been a fine owner of this great machine.
Combination, washer dryers were introduced too soon the public wasn’t ready for something this convenient, because the sales were very poor manufactures did not have the money to redesign them, all initial automatic washers had to be heavily redesigned to be successful, only Philco Bendix, and whirlpool redesigned their combination machines to any significant degree, GE continued to build them the longest and did work out a lot of bugs, but it was not a substantially improved machine.
The last US combination washer dryers rolled off the line around 1972, that was just about the time the baby boom generation was coming of age and family size was declining radically , and people started to expect laundry appliances in their condominiums apartments, etc.. They literally stopped making them right when they should’ve started selling like crazy.
Full-size combination. Washer dryers are now finally becoming a reality. It will probably take five or 10 years before they make a significant dent in washer and dryer sales.
John
The dry control was added when they made a major redesign of the 61 combination to the back of the machine because they didn’t want to redesign the looks of the control panel and it was a clever place to put it. The dryness control was there so the machine could be customized to the desire of the user for the level of dryness they preferred, the setting also had something to do with the length of ductwork that the machine was operating with.
Of the several Kenmore combinations I’ve had some for as long as 30 years in regular use. I never had to set the control any higher than the normal setting and you never changed it from low to load, Bob doesn’t surprise me that you had a neighbor that said it to maximum dry. I saw several in the field where people just put it on maximum dry figuring it would drive faster or better and we still see that with auto dry dryers today people put it on more dry or extra dry Without really needing to do so.
When the machines were built from the factory with a dryness control, they did have one model where it was right on the control panel others. It was hidden under the lint, filter door, etc..
Note that there were several top-of-the-line Kenmore dryers that also had the dryness control on the back of the machine because again it was only intended for an initial adjustment to please the owner and to make up for the installation because of exhaust duct, etc.
I count six of these machines that are in perfect working order that are in use right now there’s maybe a dozen or two dozen more in the hands of fellow collectors that can be repaired now that John E has perfected a way to repair the transmission.
The combination washer dryer failed for many reasons, not the least of which repair people even like myself badmouthed them back in the day because of complexity. My mom‘s best friend and my kindergarten teacher wanted to get one of these combination washer dryers back in the late 60s because she didn’t think she had room for a dryer and I remember as a young child back when I knew everything told her not to get one they’re nothing but trouble I was repeating what I had heard regretted that later she would’ve been a fine owner of this great machine.
Combination, washer dryers were introduced too soon the public wasn’t ready for something this convenient, because the sales were very poor manufactures did not have the money to redesign them, all initial automatic washers had to be heavily redesigned to be successful, only Philco Bendix, and whirlpool redesigned their combination machines to any significant degree, GE continued to build them the longest and did work out a lot of bugs, but it was not a substantially improved machine.
The last US combination washer dryers rolled off the line around 1972, that was just about the time the baby boom generation was coming of age and family size was declining radically , and people started to expect laundry appliances in their condominiums apartments, etc.. They literally stopped making them right when they should’ve started selling like crazy.
Full-size combination. Washer dryers are now finally becoming a reality. It will probably take five or 10 years before they make a significant dent in washer and dryer sales.
John
I am not certain if this is correct, but my guess is the reason why Whirlpool stopped making the combination is because they introduced their thin twin machines in the late 60’s which could be stacked with the optional stacking kit or could be used as stand alone automatics. Whirlpool figured it would be much, much cheaper to make the thin twin/portable models which only had a 24” wide footprint (at least with the models produced in 1975/1976) along with there being a lot less complexity as well. Capacity was definitely on the smaller side, but otherwise could accomplish the same thing as a combination washer dryer, only caveat would be you would have to switch the clothes over to the dryer.
I also believe the thin twin machines replaced the wringer machines as well since it could serve the same thing as a wringer, but in a compact automatic washer. A compact belt drive may have been slightly more than a wringer but Whirlpool probably figured people would rather spend a few more dollars for a compact automatic washer that took the same footprint and portability as a wringer.
Not sure if those observations are correct, but could very well be a possibility. John more than likely knows a little more about that since he was repairing and serving machines back in the 70’s and 80’s.
I also believe the thin twin machines replaced the wringer machines as well since it could serve the same thing as a wringer, but in a compact automatic washer. A compact belt drive may have been slightly more than a wringer but Whirlpool probably figured people would rather spend a few more dollars for a compact automatic washer that took the same footprint and portability as a wringer.
Not sure if those observations are correct, but could very well be a possibility. John more than likely knows a little more about that since he was repairing and serving machines back in the 70’s and 80’s.
Reasons why the combinations went out of production
There are many reasons will probably never know the exact reason, but I think they simply cost too much to build. They probably never made money on them.
Their timing was probably good to stop in the early 70s and that we went into a major recession and Inflationary period in the 70s and that might’ve killed them anyway they would’ve become very costly.
Hi Sean, the whirlpool Finn twin didn’t come out until 1984 although they did make some stacking kits where you could stack their compact 24 inch laundry throughout the 70s And we space was tight. They did serve the purpose of a laundry in a smaller space.
Westinghouse introduced their stacked front load pairs in 1957 and they quickly started touting them as an alternative to the combination. Washer dryer, they discontinue their combination in the mid 60s may be a little sooner.
The only major player in the laundry industry was Frigidaire and they never introduced a combination washer dryer. They introduced their 24 inch skinny mini and 1969 and it captured some of the market that combination washer dryer might have taken.
When my brother Jeff and I started this business, we did all the service on a 400 unit condominium development in Greenbelt Maryland that all built with general electric combination washer dryers, it was built between 67 and 1971 and we kept those machines running for quite a few years.
A lot of people did not like the GE combos they took a long time and they got quite hot. I always remember one customer who got rid of the GE combo and went and bought a skinny mini in the later 70s she hated the GE and it had broken down again and she said if you would’ve told me, there was anything worse than that GE combo I would not have believed you until I got the skinny mini what a piece of junk she said.
I remember another lady in that complex who had the GE combo and her boyfriend was a carpenter, and she accidentally washed some of his pants with 3 inch nails in the pockets and one of the nails cut through the heating element, which is a very serious repair on a GE combo.
She was a middle-aged woman and she said I had used a lot of washing machines in my life, but I never had anything that cleaned like this GE she loved the machine. She was very disappointed when we told her how much it would cost to tear that machine completely apart to fix it .
John
There are many reasons will probably never know the exact reason, but I think they simply cost too much to build. They probably never made money on them.
Their timing was probably good to stop in the early 70s and that we went into a major recession and Inflationary period in the 70s and that might’ve killed them anyway they would’ve become very costly.
Hi Sean, the whirlpool Finn twin didn’t come out until 1984 although they did make some stacking kits where you could stack their compact 24 inch laundry throughout the 70s And we space was tight. They did serve the purpose of a laundry in a smaller space.
Westinghouse introduced their stacked front load pairs in 1957 and they quickly started touting them as an alternative to the combination. Washer dryer, they discontinue their combination in the mid 60s may be a little sooner.
The only major player in the laundry industry was Frigidaire and they never introduced a combination washer dryer. They introduced their 24 inch skinny mini and 1969 and it captured some of the market that combination washer dryer might have taken.
When my brother Jeff and I started this business, we did all the service on a 400 unit condominium development in Greenbelt Maryland that all built with general electric combination washer dryers, it was built between 67 and 1971 and we kept those machines running for quite a few years.
A lot of people did not like the GE combos they took a long time and they got quite hot. I always remember one customer who got rid of the GE combo and went and bought a skinny mini in the later 70s she hated the GE and it had broken down again and she said if you would’ve told me, there was anything worse than that GE combo I would not have believed you until I got the skinny mini what a piece of junk she said.
I remember another lady in that complex who had the GE combo and her boyfriend was a carpenter, and she accidentally washed some of his pants with 3 inch nails in the pockets and one of the nails cut through the heating element, which is a very serious repair on a GE combo.
She was a middle-aged woman and she said I had used a lot of washing machines in my life, but I never had anything that cleaned like this GE she loved the machine. She was very disappointed when we told her how much it would cost to tear that machine completely apart to fix it .
John
It's always a treat to see machines that John has restored, they take your breath away. I can't wait to see this one in action, he's outdone himself again.
What an incredible restoration - John you are a true craftsman. I can't even imagine the effort and ingenuity you must have put into getting to this end result. Congratulations on this stunning rebuild and Ben thank you for sharing!
Its remarkable how similar the control panel is to the 1960 TOL belt drive I'm currently working on. Personal preference but I think this style of control panel is one of the most unique and nicest of the early belt drives.
I always wondered if these combos of the 50's & 60's were marketed towards a consumer who primarily still (and preferred) to use a clothesline to dry clothes. I've seen several examples over the years of matching sets where the washer was used to death and the dryer is practically brand new. For someone with preferences like this and needs a new washer, I think a combo is a perfect solution - you get a washer and also the functionality of a dryer in the off chance you ever happen to need it without having to sacrifice the real estate of a full set.
www.automaticwasher.org
Its remarkable how similar the control panel is to the 1960 TOL belt drive I'm currently working on. Personal preference but I think this style of control panel is one of the most unique and nicest of the early belt drives.
I always wondered if these combos of the 50's & 60's were marketed towards a consumer who primarily still (and preferred) to use a clothesline to dry clothes. I've seen several examples over the years of matching sets where the washer was used to death and the dryer is practically brand new. For someone with preferences like this and needs a new washer, I think a combo is a perfect solution - you get a washer and also the functionality of a dryer in the off chance you ever happen to need it without having to sacrifice the real estate of a full set.
Early Inglis Belt Drive Set
Hi Everyone, Thought I would share a recent find - a 1960 Inglis Royal W&D. Some might recall way back when I did a rebuild on a 66 Inglis and so almost 10 years later I guess I'll be at it again. These machines are much earlier than I've ever worked on before so these will prove interesting...
www.automaticwasher.org
