Replacement Motor for 1977 Norge Wards Burpilator

[robinbird]

Hi everyone,
I'm a new member and could use some help please. I have a Mongomery Wards 20 cycle washer model LNC-6837 (purchased new in 1977). The motor is on it's last leg. The motor thermal protector shut it down and I could smell it burning. After it cooled off I took off the front panel so I could check out what was happening. I turned the washer on in a spin cycle and the motor buzzed loudly, started smoking and shut off again. I'm a pretty good mechanic and I'd like to replace the motor and keep the machine going if possible. The washer is in pretty good condition otherwise and I like it. Anyway, is there a replacement motor that will fit this machine. I took the motor out and it's 3/4 HP with the following numbers on it... 33-7323 and 5KH41LT11AS. Please help.

Robin

 

[repairguy]

Welcome! What a great vintage washer you have there. Here is a link to a motor that is listed as used but it looks like a new old stock or possibly one that was installed for a short period of time and then removed. This is an Emerson motor that is a direct replacement for the motor number you provided. First I would make sure the pump or the transmission is not causing a strain on the motor. Hope this helps.

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[appnut]

Robin, I'm so impressed you are the original owner. Drool!! Do you still have the original owner's manual and other associated paperwork?

 

[turbokinetic]

The buzzing and smoking and shutting off is very likely due to the motor having worn bearings. This allows the rotor to drag inside the motor causing it to do what you are experiencing.

You really better jump on that motor from eBay. There are people who will buy that to hoard it and you'll miss out. 

 

[robinbird]

Repairguy, thanks for the helpful information and the link. I did check to see if the pump and the tub/transmission turn freely and they seem to turn just fine. I see a couple of other motor models on eBay that LOOK like they may work. One of them is a GE 5KH41LT15S and the other is an Emerson 33-9968. How can I tell if either of these will work?

Appnut, thanks. My parents were the original owners. I inherited the machine from them. They did save all the literature that came with the machine in an envelope. I'll post photos.

 

[rp2813]

Wow, that was not a cheap washer, particularly considering it was a Norge-sourced Signature/Wards.

 

My mom's '75 Kenmore which was just a notch below their priciest model cost $309.  I always knew Kenmore/Sears to be more costly than anything from Wards.  I guess that wasn't always the case.

 

 

 

[appnut]

Robin thank you. Did your parents have the matching dryer at one point? My parents bought a top of the line Norge washer December 1963/64 and the matching dryer February 1964/65.

If you have pages in the guides with close-ups of the control panel and the option buttons to the left & right of the timer dial and respective description information, I'd love it.

Neighbor across the street had a 1971/72 Montgomery Wards washer that was probably 2-3 models below the Top of the Line like your parents bought.

 

[repairguy]

I’m not sure what the difference would be but the 33-9968 motor crosses to a different one. The one in the link above directly crosses from the motor number you provided. Without seeing the other one I don’t know but in my opinion Emerson motors were better than GE in the sound and vibration department. As David (turbokinetic) mentioned above you’d better jump on this motor if you need it. The machines built like yours were discontinued in the early 80’s and parts such as the motor can be a little hard to locate these days.

 

[robinbird]

Appnut, Is this what you were thinking of?

 

[robinbird]

Repairguy,
I'm waiting to hear back from the person who has the one that you linked to. I can't tell if there are 2 studs or 4 studs on the bottom. The original has 4... which the base plate with the 3 pads bolts up to. I also found this cross reference and it shows the original motor 33-7323 crosses to a Mars 04007. When I check a 5KH41LT15S it also comes up as a Mars 04007. Does that mean that the 33-7323 interchanges with the 5KH41LT15S?

http://www.westerncomponentsales.com/cms_uploads/Motor-X-Ref-new.pdf

 

[repairguy]

It’s very possible that these motors will cross reference. The one from the link I sent would have four studs unless someone cut them off for some odd reason. The 3/4 horse motors on the Norge machines were common for Norge. FYI: Montgomery Wards never made an appliance as Sears did not either. They both put their names on common branded appliances. Sears Kenmore washers and dryers were built by Whirlpool for many years. The one you have is a Norge with the Montgomery Ward badge.

 

[washerlover]

Those motors are easy to change out...the trick is finding one.  I have a 1976 and 1980 Wards Signature but am not willing yet to part them out..!  They certainly are fun machines, to be sure! Once you find a new motor, it’s a slam dunk.  Fingers crossed for you because these machines rock!

 

[appnut]

Yes, thank you.  That's exactly what I want to see.  

 

[robinbird]

If the motor in the link has four studs I'll probably end up buying it then. The seller has a pretty firm no return policy so I want to make sure it's good. Seller also didn't take very good photos of it and only two studs are showing. Are there Norge models that are just like the Wards models but with the Norge name on them? I tried searching the internet to find one but couldn't come up with anything.

 

[rp2813]

I would say an actual Norge wouldn't be much different from a Ward's except maybe for minor control panel treatments, particularly toward the end of Ward's sad existence (I grew up in a staunchly loyal Ward's household and witnessed my dad's colorful language many times when various appliances and power tools purchased from Ward's failed prematurely in one way or another).

 

Sears, on the other hand, had Whirlpool build washers for them that offered features and upgrades that were exclusive to the Kenmore badge, and it wasn't long before Kenmore consoles, agitators, etc. looked nothing like Whirlpool's.  Meanwhile, a Ward's washer and a Norge were practically identical under their respective lids.

 

 

 

[robinbird]

Thanks for the helpful information everyone. I just purchased the motor that Repairguy linked. I hope to be able to return the favor some day. I'll post an update after I install it. I tried the motor again and it seems to run fine with no load (belt removed) but overheats when a load is added. The shaft turns freely with no slop. I wonder if there is an internal short in the windings? Possibly from overheating during a heavy load or just a break down of the insulation on the wire over time? The windings look good from the outside but who knows what it looks like inside.

Robin

 

[robinbird]

Update. I don't have the new motor yet but I took the old one apart to see what went wrong. The windings are toast.

 

[combo52]

Burned Motor Windings

Wow, yes the start windings are toast, most likely breakdown of the insulating coating, once it shorts in one place it keeps getting worse.

 

When you put the new motor in check the amp draw as the machine goes through a full cycle, it should never be drawing over around 9-12 amps while running with a load.

 

Norge had more than their share of problems with these 3/4 HP motors, the motors ran hot and often caused  timer contacts to fail from the heavy current draw. Norge was the only company that went to these power hungry 3/4 HP motors. 

 

The best thing to keep these machines running is to replace the 3/4 HP motor with the standard 1/2 HP motor, the machine will run just as well and have fewer electrical problems.

 

John L.

 

[turbokinetic]

I see evidence.....

.... of why it died.  The bearings went dry, became worn until the rotor rubbed the stator, and locked the motor. See annotated picture. 

 

The "greasy" spots on the winding are where the failing bearing melted and then threw bits of the oil wick out of the bearing onto the winding. 

The real tell-tale thing is the shiny, burnished surface of the inside of the stator. This is where the rotor was rubbing on the stator and binding the motor so it could not rotate. 

 

This failure happens once the "lifetime lubricated" oil finally is gone. I always poke a hole in the oil wick covers and re-lube these motors when I get them, to hopefully prevent this failure.