Hi all,
This post has been a few months overdue, since I purchased a really nice (outwardly) KUDS25 PowerClean based KitchenAid Supurba dishwasher.
However, once it was brought home and fired up, boy did it make a racket. As well as had a limescale coated pump.
So the renovation ensued!
I've got some of the process pics attached, and shamefully didn't photograph everything.
Issues and Remedies;
1. (Photos 2-6); Since the pump was making a racket, and was dirty, I needed to open it up. This was a challenge right away. Since the wash imeller screw would NOT COME OFF! I fought with it a while till the plastic nut features on the top of the impeller cracked away. At that point it needed to be sacrificed. So I drilled a hole through it, and used a screwdriver as a stop block. With that engaged, I was eventually able to get the screw out.
The PowerClean I dealt with on my other KUDC23, was tough too, but this was the absolute worst.
Once I got the impeller out, the rest of the pump could be opened up.
Upon opening things up to the grinder/drain section, the culprits were found. Of course, lots of weird debris, like plastic bits, a screw, and shards of glass.
The drain impeller bore, where the grinder spring engages, was also cracked.
At this point it would need a full rebuild.
MURANDO on the forum was ever so gracious to donate some spare PowerClean pump parts so the rebuild could be done, and the KUDS25 could live another day!!!
2. (Photos 5, 7); While waiting for the pump rebuild parts, I cleaned up the sump, and very rusty shaft.
This took two treatments of soaking paper towels in CLR and laying them with good contact, in the sloped sump area and around the pump shaft. Within a weekend I was able to get it all cleaned up!
The shaft, that was more challenging. I needed to wire wheel Dremel that clean, in order to insert the new drain impeller.
The shaft seal was interesting. There was no evidence of leakage under the tub or on the motor, but there was a very rusty shaft, and a surprising amount of scale behind the seal. So that needed gentle scraping out before a new seal could be put in.
3. (Photos 8); Reassembly went well. The initial fire-up of the machine was nice n smooth, and leak free (from the pump)
Once it was running a bit, there was a noticeable leak coming from the large fill vent on the lower left side.
This one was tricky and took a few weeks to solve. Upon disassembly, the fill vent assembly and gasket were pretty gunked up with scale. I initially tried just cleaning things with CLR to the point it was scale free. The housing and seal. But when it would be reassembled, it would still leak during fill and wash. Even though the ring seal was making a real tight fit, water would still pass by it.
At my wits end, and knowing there's no replacement parts, I went big. I just sealed it up with silicone kitchen sealant that can withstand the temperature.
This too took a couple attempts, but finally worked!
I got a couple weeps from it still, but after several runs the little pores must've sealed up and has been leak free.
4. (Photo 9); The ActiveVent wax motor was busted, so the vent never closed, leading to a pretty noisy wash. Replaced that wax motor with a new one from ebay. Works nicely now, and much quieter.
5. The detergent dispenser was also leaking significantly, through the lid lock shaft. A large pool of water would collect while a cycle ran, and then dump out when I'd open the door.
I did find a replacement OEM detergent dispenser, but it didn't have the Rinse Aid sensor. It was only an issue if the door was opened too far soon after a dry cycle. So I held onto that issue to "monitor for the future."
I'm happy to say, several months later of regular use, the little shaft seal must've been heated and moistened enough where it doesn't seem to be an issue anymore. It could be still weeping a bit, but the cycle heat seems to evaporate it.
6. Overall, the machine is in good condition after the renovations. However, if I'm honest, the older 23 series I have, seems to have held up better over time. From everything like pump parts, racks, wash arms and bearings. Seals etc, the 23 is just aging better.
However, the 25, with this refresh, is holding its own.
7. (Photos 10,11); Now, what's fun is, it has the soil pressure sensor!
What's interesting is, I could not get this to trip and modify the cycles at first. So I conducted some evaluation and experimentation.
I was able to get some aquarium tubing, and a low level pressure gauge.
I confirmed that when the pressure sensor was blown into manually, it would trip and manipulate the cycle.
But the gauge was able to tell me what's going on in a cycle.
Findings: Upon attaching the gauge, and running some cycles, the following was observed.
- When running with clean water, the gauge reads between 2-3in/wc (inches of water column).
- Manual testing with the gague, blowing into it, the trip switch level is aprox. 6in/wc.
- I ran a couple cycles of soiled dishes, and the first two, only reached a max of 3.5in/wc. According to the cycle chart, the "sensing" period is in the first PreWash for about 4-6min. And my sensor readings didn't reach the trip point in that time frame.
- I conducted this test a 3rd time, with lots of gross pans and dishes, after I did some baking. THIS time, I watched the gauge, and it rose to the 6in/wc trip point within just a few mintues, and dumped the tank! Modified the cycle to a "medium" soil load, which adds a thermal hold in the main wash, and the pre-final rinse purge is turned into a full rinse.
It worked! Whats very interesting, monitoring its performance and soil trip points, I've come to the following conclusions:
a) the collection chamber is very large on the PC, and it takes a lot of soil to collect before there's any collection resistance.
b) the types of soils really matter. Obviously, the chunkier, heavier soils will settle out, and not seal the mesh. Loads that have lighter, finer soils, like breading, flour, starches etc, float and seal the filter faster, causing the sensor trips.
This action makes sense! It's those fine, gritty soils that cause that grittiness on surfaces if it's not adequately washed and rinsed away. So if there's a load that has more of that soil, it makes sense the machine will "see" that type of soil, and want to run longer and flush more water through, so that silty stuff has enough opportunity to be flushed away.
Existing Nagging Issue:
There's an existing nagging issue, that I can only suspect is a control board glitch.
It tends to trip the detergent dispenser, randomly, within the first fill or first wash segment. Causing an issue where a double dose could be dumped into the PreWash. Leaving nothing left for the main wash.
It's sometimes gone weeks without doing this, and acting normally. But sometimes creep up again.
So, I've had to get in the habit of just letting it fill, run for several seconds, and then put my detergent pack in the cup, for the rest of the cycle.
Modifications:
The upper arm that came with the machine was a gross yellowish color, like bad teeth or something. So I got another one super cheap. But.....after several weeks, that one became yellowish too! It looked so bad compared to the nice white racks.
So I got a dark gray wash arm from a Voyager platform. Fit right in. The hole pattern is a little different, and it actually spins a little faster with extra drive jets.
But so far no issues with cleaning! Everything up top is squeaky clean!
Epilogue:
Yeah! Pretty happy with it so far. It's quieter and the wash cycles are better than the 23 series with modern detergents. The thermal hold rinse really helps.
Another interesting observation is that I can hear the 1/3 HP motor pitch change more when its under or off load with water, or when drained. The 23's 1/2HP motor never did that.
This post has been a few months overdue, since I purchased a really nice (outwardly) KUDS25 PowerClean based KitchenAid Supurba dishwasher.
However, once it was brought home and fired up, boy did it make a racket. As well as had a limescale coated pump.
So the renovation ensued!
I've got some of the process pics attached, and shamefully didn't photograph everything.
Issues and Remedies;
1. (Photos 2-6); Since the pump was making a racket, and was dirty, I needed to open it up. This was a challenge right away. Since the wash imeller screw would NOT COME OFF! I fought with it a while till the plastic nut features on the top of the impeller cracked away. At that point it needed to be sacrificed. So I drilled a hole through it, and used a screwdriver as a stop block. With that engaged, I was eventually able to get the screw out.
The PowerClean I dealt with on my other KUDC23, was tough too, but this was the absolute worst.
Once I got the impeller out, the rest of the pump could be opened up.
Upon opening things up to the grinder/drain section, the culprits were found. Of course, lots of weird debris, like plastic bits, a screw, and shards of glass.
The drain impeller bore, where the grinder spring engages, was also cracked.
At this point it would need a full rebuild.
MURANDO on the forum was ever so gracious to donate some spare PowerClean pump parts so the rebuild could be done, and the KUDS25 could live another day!!!
2. (Photos 5, 7); While waiting for the pump rebuild parts, I cleaned up the sump, and very rusty shaft.
This took two treatments of soaking paper towels in CLR and laying them with good contact, in the sloped sump area and around the pump shaft. Within a weekend I was able to get it all cleaned up!
The shaft, that was more challenging. I needed to wire wheel Dremel that clean, in order to insert the new drain impeller.
The shaft seal was interesting. There was no evidence of leakage under the tub or on the motor, but there was a very rusty shaft, and a surprising amount of scale behind the seal. So that needed gentle scraping out before a new seal could be put in.
3. (Photos 8); Reassembly went well. The initial fire-up of the machine was nice n smooth, and leak free (from the pump)
Once it was running a bit, there was a noticeable leak coming from the large fill vent on the lower left side.
This one was tricky and took a few weeks to solve. Upon disassembly, the fill vent assembly and gasket were pretty gunked up with scale. I initially tried just cleaning things with CLR to the point it was scale free. The housing and seal. But when it would be reassembled, it would still leak during fill and wash. Even though the ring seal was making a real tight fit, water would still pass by it.
At my wits end, and knowing there's no replacement parts, I went big. I just sealed it up with silicone kitchen sealant that can withstand the temperature.
This too took a couple attempts, but finally worked!
I got a couple weeps from it still, but after several runs the little pores must've sealed up and has been leak free.
4. (Photo 9); The ActiveVent wax motor was busted, so the vent never closed, leading to a pretty noisy wash. Replaced that wax motor with a new one from ebay. Works nicely now, and much quieter.
5. The detergent dispenser was also leaking significantly, through the lid lock shaft. A large pool of water would collect while a cycle ran, and then dump out when I'd open the door.
I did find a replacement OEM detergent dispenser, but it didn't have the Rinse Aid sensor. It was only an issue if the door was opened too far soon after a dry cycle. So I held onto that issue to "monitor for the future."
I'm happy to say, several months later of regular use, the little shaft seal must've been heated and moistened enough where it doesn't seem to be an issue anymore. It could be still weeping a bit, but the cycle heat seems to evaporate it.
6. Overall, the machine is in good condition after the renovations. However, if I'm honest, the older 23 series I have, seems to have held up better over time. From everything like pump parts, racks, wash arms and bearings. Seals etc, the 23 is just aging better.
However, the 25, with this refresh, is holding its own.
7. (Photos 10,11); Now, what's fun is, it has the soil pressure sensor!
What's interesting is, I could not get this to trip and modify the cycles at first. So I conducted some evaluation and experimentation.
I was able to get some aquarium tubing, and a low level pressure gauge.
I confirmed that when the pressure sensor was blown into manually, it would trip and manipulate the cycle.
But the gauge was able to tell me what's going on in a cycle.
Findings: Upon attaching the gauge, and running some cycles, the following was observed.
- When running with clean water, the gauge reads between 2-3in/wc (inches of water column).
- Manual testing with the gague, blowing into it, the trip switch level is aprox. 6in/wc.
- I ran a couple cycles of soiled dishes, and the first two, only reached a max of 3.5in/wc. According to the cycle chart, the "sensing" period is in the first PreWash for about 4-6min. And my sensor readings didn't reach the trip point in that time frame.
- I conducted this test a 3rd time, with lots of gross pans and dishes, after I did some baking. THIS time, I watched the gauge, and it rose to the 6in/wc trip point within just a few mintues, and dumped the tank! Modified the cycle to a "medium" soil load, which adds a thermal hold in the main wash, and the pre-final rinse purge is turned into a full rinse.
It worked! Whats very interesting, monitoring its performance and soil trip points, I've come to the following conclusions:
a) the collection chamber is very large on the PC, and it takes a lot of soil to collect before there's any collection resistance.
b) the types of soils really matter. Obviously, the chunkier, heavier soils will settle out, and not seal the mesh. Loads that have lighter, finer soils, like breading, flour, starches etc, float and seal the filter faster, causing the sensor trips.
This action makes sense! It's those fine, gritty soils that cause that grittiness on surfaces if it's not adequately washed and rinsed away. So if there's a load that has more of that soil, it makes sense the machine will "see" that type of soil, and want to run longer and flush more water through, so that silty stuff has enough opportunity to be flushed away.
Existing Nagging Issue:
There's an existing nagging issue, that I can only suspect is a control board glitch.
It tends to trip the detergent dispenser, randomly, within the first fill or first wash segment. Causing an issue where a double dose could be dumped into the PreWash. Leaving nothing left for the main wash.
It's sometimes gone weeks without doing this, and acting normally. But sometimes creep up again.
So, I've had to get in the habit of just letting it fill, run for several seconds, and then put my detergent pack in the cup, for the rest of the cycle.
Modifications:
The upper arm that came with the machine was a gross yellowish color, like bad teeth or something. So I got another one super cheap. But.....after several weeks, that one became yellowish too! It looked so bad compared to the nice white racks.
So I got a dark gray wash arm from a Voyager platform. Fit right in. The hole pattern is a little different, and it actually spins a little faster with extra drive jets.
But so far no issues with cleaning! Everything up top is squeaky clean!
Epilogue:
Yeah! Pretty happy with it so far. It's quieter and the wash cycles are better than the 23 series with modern detergents. The thermal hold rinse really helps.
Another interesting observation is that I can hear the 1/3 HP motor pitch change more when its under or off load with water, or when drained. The 23's 1/2HP motor never did that.
