Samsung 18/11kg Heat Pump washer dryer UK model!

[me]

Just noticed Samsung have a UK version of their US sized heat pump washer dryer available for pre order for a mere £2,249, and that's £750 off!

Samsung Bespoke AI All-in-One WD18DB8995BZT1 18/11kg Heat Pump Washer Dryer

WD18DB8995BZT1

Bespoke AI Heat Pump Washer Dryer 18KG WD8000DK | Samsung UK

Buy the Samsung Bespoke AI Heat Pump 18KG Washer Dryer WD18DB8995BZT1. Enjoy 0% Finance Options & Exclusive Deals at Samsung UK.

www.samsung.com

 

[henene4]

The EU version has recently launched, yes, and honestly?
It doesn't look terrible?

It's inverter heat pump, it has a bigger drum than any stand alone household dryer on the market.
It's efficient - comparable to stand alone heat pump dryers.
It's not even THAT slow - 6h to dry 11kg on Eco mode give or take isn't fast, but faster than the competing combos from the likes of LG and AEG. On speed mode, it can dry a few kg in under 2h.

It's just pretty expensive. In Germany, it's only price currently online is 3500€.
If it was 1k less I would even say it's competitive.

This actually could be a pretty good choice for larger families.
It's huge, but if you can stomach running a load through the night and a load through the day, I don't see why this couldn't work even for pretty large tasks.

 

[logixx]

I wonder who'll eventually be able to sell it. As of now (here) it's only Samsung and the Otto Group, both online retailers. It'll probably be a while before we will see any good online review videos, let alone machines on display in a store.

 

[me]

I did wonder if any of the manufacturer's of the US heat pump washer dryers might try selling a version in the UK market.

Not being constrained by the standard 600mm wide gap and fitting under a worktop means there's plenty of space for an efficient heat pump and a large enough drum to dry a decent sized load, although LG seems to have done a reasonable job of squeezing a heat pump washer dryer in a standard sized space, albeit a bit deep, with their fixed tub, suspended drum design, but I'm not sure I like the idea of the extra gasket on the back of the tub and the controls on the door of the LG.

If you've got the space for one, and as you say a large family and prepared to part with that much money, the large capacity and added convenience of it being able to both wash and dry a 11kg load while you are in bed or at work could be quite appealing.

 

[logixx]

I think these were released in Asia before they made it to the US. The above combo is marketed as a 25kg washer (and 15kg dryer) in Singapore, where Samsung also already sell the touchscreen models that are 60 cm wide.

11kg Bespoke AI™ Laundry Washer -AI EcoBubble™ Silver | Samsung Singapore

11kg WW9400D Washer with SpaceMax™ and AI Wash (WW11DB9B84GDSP) - See the benefits and full features of this product. Learn more and find the best Washers and Dryers for you at Samsung Singapore.

www.samsung.com

 

[combo52]

Full-size 27 inches wide washer dryer

It’s only a matter of time until this becomes the standard around the world, anybody building upscale housing. Anywhere in the world will start to put in full-size machines like this, this type of one piece machine saves the builder a lot of time and effort only having to install one machine and it takes up less total space than two separate machines and looks much better.

People are not any smaller overall in most countries and have the same clothing needs and bedding needs etc. that need to be laundered.

Three to four thousand dollars is not a lot of money again when you consider what housing cost and what people pay on cars, etc.

John

 

[donprohel]

the standard around the world

I really don't think so: the European standard for furniture and appliances is the 60 cm module, even Switzerland is dropping their 55 cm standard to adopt the European module.

 

Maybe it is just that we would like to see our habits to become the "norm", but this is not often the case

 

[me]

I can't see oversized machines like this taking any significant market share from standard sized ones in the UK. Will mainly appeal to large families.

There might be a bigger market for a wider than 600mm washer dryer that still fits under a standard height worktop, which could be put alongside a narrow kitchen unit to fit a 1200mm space.

Or perhaps a standard 600mm width, but taller than standard machine with a pedestal underneath to avoid bending, since it could be fitted in place of using stacked machines, which would provide more room for the heat pump that a standard sized machine, but wouldn't provide space for a wider drum for better drying; would be neat if the heat pump was built into a standardised detachable unit so either half could be swapped out if it failed instead of dumping the whole machine.

 

[launderess]

UK and across Europe average standard washing machine dimensions pretty much are: 84-85cm in height, 60cm in width, and 55-60cm in depth. One may find slight variations but otherwise there you are.

These somewhat standard dimensions aren't just abstract numbers. They are what designers, architects and others use or used when planning out housing of all sorts. Just as in USA cabinets and other bits needed to fit out a kitchen or bath come in certain dimensions to make everything else "fit".

Majority of European homes have laundry appliances (at least washing machines) located either in bathroom, kitchen, or perhaps adjacent area with plumbing connections (such as former or current scullery). With such compact living anyone not living in perhaps a mansion or castle usually desires what Americans call "compact" laundry machines.

That being said both European and now Asian manufacturers have long cracked obtaining more capacity for washing machines but keeping standard height and width. Solution is simply to make tub deeper and or otherwise greater to occupy more space within cabinet. This explains how both an 8kg and 11kg capacity washer pretty much have same overall dimensions. Depth may be greater on 11kg capacity washer but height remains 83cm.

As for rest of it European housewives and anyone else saddled with doing laundry long have worked out "coping" (if you will) with "smaller" washing machines and having large families.

Things that are an anathema to many Americans such as doing frequent wash loads don't bother and or long have been normal in Europe. Modern washers with computer controls often have delay timer settings. Bung everything in machine before going to bed or leaving for work/school, set timer and so forth, arrive later to finished wash ready for hanging up or going into dryer.

There is also fact Americans by and large have habit of wearing things only once (and even then for short period of time) then putting item in hamper to send to wash. That is wasteful and just creates tons of laundry.

Americans seem to have a thing about wanting washers with capacity to do things such as huge eider downs, quilts, coverlets and so forth. In Europe many of those things are simply sent to laundry or perhaps done at laundromat (self service or service wash). Duvets have covers for a reason and when done so actual item rarely if ever needs washing.

IIRC Miele tried to flog their uber sized 4XXX washers in Europe without much success.

 

[henene4]

I don't think the W4XXX from Miele were ever sold here.

BSH and Whirlpool used to sell their US sized machines here, so did Samsung.
And LG pretty consistently had theirs on offer for well over a decade.

Sales numbers will be and always were rather small, but we basically had someone selling something like this for all of the 2000s.
But, with this being a touchscreen machine, localising it for any market in the EU is basically no work what so ever, which makes it scale better than any other try like this might.

 

[foraloysius]

“Three to four thousand dollars is not a lot of money again when you consider what housing cost and what people pay on cars, etc.”

There are a lot of countries where people don’t use dryers because the climate is so that line drying is always a good option. And then there’s the price of electricity to consider too. For instance in Italy using a dryer costs an arm and a leg. All people need then is a decent washing machine that will cost not more than 300 - 400 euros. I bet Samsung will not even carry such machines in their assortment in such situations.

 

[henene4]

3500€ is obscene, don't get me wrong.
A TOL Samsung washer isn't even 1000€, same for the TOL dryer.
You'd spend about 1000-1200€ for LGs US sized machines aswell.
So you definitely pay a premium for it.

But, there is just nothing like it.
There are straight up people who do benefit from that huge capacity - and except for going with 2 dryers there's nothing that can handle such drying loads.

This does wash and dry REAL 8kg of laundry with no issues, 10kg of you push it.
And given they can sell this machine in basically all EU countries, even if they only sell a couple of thousand a year, it probably will be easy to justify.

For comparison: At the BSH factory I worked at, the minimum quantity for a single model was between 100 and 200 units per year. That wasn't even the full production of one line in one shift.
If they can run a shift or two per year for these, it'll probably stay around, even if very few units move.

 

[logixx]

I'm wondering what the profit margin on the Samsung is? Considering it's (as of now and in Germany) only available from two retailers.

I remember we once had a Bauknecht (of all brands) on offer with the only other retailer being Amazon. Had we sold it at the same price as Amazon, the profit margin would have been an astronomical 50%. Our normal margin for appliances is between 5 to 10 or maybe 15% on average.

 

[mrboilwash]

So, for the price of two smaller sized Miele washer-dryers or three MOL Miele washers or 12 BOL Beko washers I can have:

-A washer-dryer that fits just through my kitchen door but not through my bathroom door, oh and what fun it has to be to get this 147 kg beast through a narrow staircase into the basement where continental European homeowners usually have their washers located.

-A washer that obviously only provides a mechanical aqua stop hose. And even this is on "applicable models" only.
What fun it would be for me to have a serious flood on the 4th floor.
It`s not the 1970s anymore where average wash cycles were done in 90 minutes and you were expected to be around when the washer runs for just in case...

-A washer that needs the drain hose at a minimum height of 60 cm connected. Or else it would siphon out? Again I thought it`s not the 1970s anymore.

-A washer that does not provide an automatic prewash cycle because of the lack of a regular 3 chamber detergent dispenser drawer. But hey at least you get a shabby dosing device to put straight into the drum if you ever dare to use a different product than whatever you filled into the automatic dispensers.

-Washer capacity is impressive at 18kg, but you can only load 4 kg on bedding, 5 kg on towels, and 9 kg on sanitize cycle. Seriously? I mean those are not permpress or delicate cycles where a reduced capacity is the norm on FL washers.
But the biggest joke is this hint in the manual:
"For bedding or bedding covers, the recommended maximum spin level is Low or Medium, and the load capacity is 3.0 kg or less."
So now it`s even 1kg less and low or medium spin speed.

-An 11 kg wash-dry cycle almost takes 9 hours.
How many wash-dry cycles of 9 hours mechanical friction can even the sturdiest of your clothes take until they`ll show premature wear?

This is clearly not designed for the European market, laundry habits and expectations are different in different regions of the globe.
Might be wrong but I don`t see a lot of potential for a success here.
Personally wouldn`t even be interested if I could have one for free. Well, I`d sell it on unused.

 

[foraloysius]

Priceless Stefan!

 

[henene4]

The height requirement is on every washer - some just work around it by having the loop up in the cabinet.
Any washer with a drain hose exit at the bottom requires the minimum height.
Again pros and cons: Should the drain hose ever get damaged, it's usually easier the more drain hose is outside the machine.

The washer should have a prewash cycle.
The manual only mentions soil level selection - but given it's automatic dosing for liquids, the missing dispenser isn't an issue.
Still would hate not having a drawer, but it isn't terrible.

Samsung has been INCREDIBLY paranoid ever since the exploding washer thing - that's why the hoot so much about not overloading on bedding.
I had a Samsung for a few months and Cottons worked just fine.

The water safe hoses are basically standard on many brands - especially Beko, Samsung, LG and ELux.
The electronic water protection from the likes of Miele and BSH is the exception, not the other way around.

Further:
A Miele washer dryer takes 6 1/2h for a 5kg wash and dry load using MORE energy than the Samsung does in 8:45h for more that TWICE the energy AND not using water.
The LG heat pump combo on offer here takes 10h for 7kg, the AEG takes 9:40h for 6kg.
This won't cause terribly more wear that the Miele.

Again:
This certainly is not perfect - but there is just nothing like this and for what it is - except for being rather expensive - it's pretty decent.

On the topic of price: Through corporate benefits - a worker benefits store here in Germany - the machine is listed for 3150€, then another 250€ off in the basket, plus a Galaxy Z Flip 6 for free.
You can trade that phone in for 500€ about currently.
So effective price is at 2300€.

At 3500€ the profit margin is something like 40% plus probably.
I wouldn't be surprised if these are produced for 1k€ or there abouts.
Sold by Samsung for probably around 1500€.

But you can see it with the Haier 1:1 reverse dryer as well: If only a handful stores cary an item, it'll retail close to MSRP - which is most often a pie in the sky number.

 

[henene4]

They are using an EEV - a first in heat pump laundry?

What I have just realised:
Both the LG and the Samsung appear to use an EEV - electronic expansion valve - on their new heat pump combos. LG also appears to use one on their stand alone heat pump dryer.

The GE does NOT use such a setup but only uses a capilary tube.

Short lesson on heat pumps:
To keep a pressure difference between the high pressure, warm side and the low pressure, cold side you need something the restricts the flow - a metering device.

Most domestic refrigeration systems - as they are rather small in the grand scheme of things - use capilariy tubes. That's just a very narrow tube of a certain length.
That means there's one fixed flow restriction - thus fixed flow rate of refrigerant for a given pressure difference.

The temperatures of the cold and hot side (with proper airflow) are more or less fixed to the pressure in each part aswell.
That means: You can alter the speed of the compressor (thus the flow rate through the compressor), but that will always change the temperature of your hot and cold side aswell as the restriction between those sides is fixed.

An expansion valve can however vary that restriction. That means you can ramp up the compressor speed (thus "move more heat" - move more refrigerant) but keep the temperatures on either side of the heat exchanger more or less constant.
Or in reverse: You can run a very low compressor rpms and still keep high temperature splits (low heat movement - for example towards the end of a dry cycle).

I don't know of any EU household heat pump laundry appliance that uses an EEV. Main reason is that it makes the control system more complicated, you need more sensors to feed that control system data. Further the parts are (obviously) more costly than a capilary tube.

But: You can a) squeeze that bit more of efficency out of such an appliance and/or b) speed up drying significantly without hitting pressure limits.

These circular parts in the pics are the coils that control that valve.
As far as I understand, the valve has a base position with a spring holding it there.
Depending on how much voltage is put through the coil, that moves the valve a bit.
That means there is no moving part needing to be sealed between insinde the circuit and outside.