Shaft seal install gauges for KitchenAid KDI-19

[oldkitchen]

My 1981 KitchenAid (by Hobart) KDI-19 dishwasher is leaking at the shaft seal.

Sears of course is useless for parts. Got a 3rd party seal kit online, but it doesn't have the shaft shim washers -- but local Hobart dealer does.

Have the service & parts manuals. Service manual says to use a "touch - clear" gauge to determine the shim thickness. I know people just guesstimate, but if I could find the gauges or know the zero point from where to measure, I'd be happier. It says what the limits of the gauges are, but I don't know where the gauge rests.

drain pump impeller shim gauge is TL-91043
wash pump impeller shim gauge is TL-91767

Also mentions putting four bearing spacers on top of the lower pump housing, part # A-102652 which are not in the parts manual at all and not in the seal kit.

 

[qsd-dan]

Not sure about the third party parts, but when I installed new seal and impeller kits in my KDS 18 and 19 dishwashers with genuine Hobart parts, reusing the same shims in the same places with the new parts got the clearances right on the money.

 

The main clearance you want to the be concerned about is the wash impeller. The drain impeller just has a single fat washer underneath it.

 

[oldkitchen]

Hobart no longer has the shaft seal kit available.

Any trick to installing the seal? Do I just press it in?

And it looks like the flat side goes down?

 

[qsd-dan]

Acutally....

The seal and impeller kit is still very much available from Hobart, they just don't know it, lol. Hobart sold off the consumer end of their appliances back in the mid 80's and practically nobody that works for Hobart anymore is aware of it. Their modern day SR-24 commercial dishwashers use the the same <a name="start_40670.601720">435102 seal and impeller kit as the KD18 - KD20 dishwashers.</a>

 

<a name="start_45967.672116">Any trick to installing the seal? Do I just press it in? </a>

 

<a name="start_45967.672116">Yup, press it in, but coat the seal with liquid soap or shampoo first. Not sure if the o-ring needs soap/shampoo, but I put some on there anyway. Doesn't hurt anything.</a>

<a name="start_45967.672116">
And it looks like the flat side goes down? </a>

 

Correct. The dot indentations face up into the impeller housing.





The soap/shampoo will cause LOTS of suds, so run a couple of cycles with an empty tub and some detergent since dishwasher detergent contains anti foaming agents.

 

Keep us updated.

 

 

 

[stevet]

Right on the money!

Dan, you got it perfect! And yes, the 435102 seal kit is very much available and comes with EVERYTHING you need to install the seal. Gauge, shim washers and shims, and a high capacity drain impeller. You can't go wrong with that kit and it is well worth the price they ask!

 

[barcoboy]

Thanks guys for that information. I've been wondering the same things myself regarding the seal in my KDS-58. Now to find a distributor!

 

[jetcone]

Thats good info

my impeller in  my 20 was cracked and I didn't have a kit so I reinstalled it, but now I can rebuild the whole damn thing correctly!

 

However if I disturb the new seals they should still work right? They've only been in 6 months....experts chime in puhleeze!

 

 

 

[firedome]

anything similar

available from Hobart for KA-17 Series machines?

 

[stevet]

15-16-17 Seal kit number

Hobart still has a whole lot of the seals for these machines in stock. The part number is 117011 and they list for 34.45.
I haven't installed one in about 8 years and don't remember if they send any shims along with the seal. I still have the touch/clear gauge that you will see in the service manuals. I think there is only one other guy in my office who would even know what it was used for! They don't teach the new techs anything about the old machines anymore. There just are not enough of them out there to spend the time on them, Very Sad in my opinion because then they have no idea of the evolution of machines from the past to the present.

The gauge is not a necessity but makes the process easier and you don't have to put the whole pump together to work on it.With the gauge, you can leave the motor in the machine and work completely from inside the tank.

I think I was 14 or 15 when I shimmed my KDS-15 motor which failed early on and my uncle gave me the specs and told me to figure out how to do it with a feeler gauge while he sat there watching me. Then he took the gauge out of his pocket and checked it and it was spot on! It wasn't too long after that, that he started taking me on service calls with him. I even spent a summer working at the agency at the time and learned about the UM and WM's as well as the A200 and D300 mixers. There were still many of the original UM's with the horizontal motors like the KD10's out there and they had porcelain tanks too!
It was a good summer! LOL

 

[oldkitchen]

So the Series 19 kit is part 435102 and the Series 15,16,17 kit is 117011 ???
***

I'll call Hobart again Monday & get the OEM kit.

The internet place sent me a kit by FSP Appliance Care Products ("geniune whirlpool quality") part 4162139 Impeller, code 111003. Comes with a couple spring washers and the course strainer as well as the seal. But no shim washers or gage.

The manual says to lube with water but I know everyone uses soap. Wonder if I could dissolve some of the new style low-suds laundry powder made for the new horizontal washers?

 

[oldkitchen]

I have the Hobart seal kit 00-435102- and it has the shim washers but does not have the gauges.

Does the washer that fits on the underside of the impeller want to have the metal side exposed or the rubber side?

 

[oldkitchen]

>The gauge is not a necessity but makes the process easier and you don't have to put the whole pump together to work on it.With the gauge, you can leave the motor in the machine and work completely from inside the tank.
>

I don't understand... looks like all I have to do is replace the parts I already removed, and use the new ones?

what do I need to know to set the gaps correctly -- hopefully I don't have to remove the motor from under the machine ???

 

[oldkitchen]

The Hobart impeller is a larger diameter than the one in the machine. There is a Sears parts sheet in my files so it may have been replaced in the past. The current 3rd part seal kit impeller is the same diameter as the one I'm taking out.

But the Hobart part more fully fills the diameter of the well in which it sits.

Takeout is 2 1/2" dia
Hobart is 3" dia and also has four 1/8" holes in the flat portion

 

[oldkitchen]

Its not draining properly. I filled the sump, looked for gross leaks, then ran a cycle. It had a lot of water -- lots more than what I poured in -- filling the bottom. Gallon and a half to 2 gal.

Checking the drain hoses for clogs, but I'm wondering if the larger diameter drain impeller might be the problem somehow?.

Poured water into the sump and it flowed freely thru that hose to the input of the drain solenoid.

Going to pour water down the discharge hose after dinner.

Can I check the drain solenoid function by simply attaching it to a wall outlet with alligator clips (120 VAC) ?

***

While observing for leaks after replacing it, I saw a spark from inside the bottom of the motor housing when some cycles change. Its coming from behind so I have to look w/ a mirror. It seems to be coming from inside a soft-looking clear-yellowish colored (old soft plastic ???) "tube" of some sort. Also a red and a yellow wire next to it; maybe they connect inside this tube.

I'm wondering if this surrounds a switch of some sort and if the spark is normal. Or maybe a replaceable part.

Maybe this is the Thermal Protection switch kicking in? During one of the cycles, there is a really loud hum. When I press my finger against the Fill Valve, the vibration decreases a lot. I'll have to try again and time the cycles to see exactly when.