Tall Tub Dishwashers and GFI Circuits

[retroguy]

An experts point of view in an article that I came across and found interesting.

http://www.davesrepair.com/DIYhelp/DIYDWsandGFIs.htm

 

[frigilux]

Interesting! And a good idea, too.

 

[exploder321]

Ours is wired into a GFCI outlet.... I thought that all kitchen electrics should be

 

[toggleswitch]

Most DW-ers in my area are hard-wired in; not plug-and-cord (flex) connected.I actually had to go out-of-state to see one plugged in. IIRC a freezer or refrigerator is not to be connected to a GFI- Nuisiance "trips" can be coslty and hugely inconvenient.

Intersting to note in the newer NEC (National Electric Code)* is the requirement of arc-fault circuit interrupters in bedroom circuits. Fits in the circuit-breaker panel. Neutral goes into it instead of the general "bus" Measures both sides of current as does a GF(C)I**, but does so "looking" for arcing.

*NEC=> Some cities (and maybe states) have more stringent codes on top of this. Local "rules" of law are called ordinances.

** Residual Current Interrupter" on the other side of the pond, IIRC.

http://www.askthebuilder.com/320_New_Arc_Fault_Breakers_-_Small_Price_To_Pay_For_Peace_Of_Mind.shtml

 

[toggleswitch]

AFCI

http://www.cpsc.gov/CPSCPUB/PUBS/afcifac8.pdf

 

[toggleswitch]

AFCI-COntinued.

'nuff said!

http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/AFCI-HTML/HTML/Arc_Fault_Circuit_Interrupters~20020128.htm

 

[toggleswitch]

GFCI- basics and intricacies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device

 

[toggleswitch]

How does it DO that?

http://www.codecheck.com/gfci_principal.htm

 

[exploder321]

Thats confusing

 

[retroguy]

Toggles....

Thanks for adding all that info. Something to think about for my basement. (And anything else I might do.)

 

[sudsmaster]

Oh, thanks, Retroguy. Yet another "Honey-do" to put on the list!!!

(Yeah, I know, Toggle, in NYC you have to hire a licensed union electrician at $80+/hr to show his pencil holder butt-crack as he upgrades your outlets and breakers... but here out west we he-men do all this stuff ourselves, when we get a "round tuit")... ;-)

I just happen to have more than a few 20 amp GFCI outlets in the garage just waiting to be installed. The DW and the garbage disposal are first on my list. Already done the baths and indoor kitchen, as well as the fish pond. The patio kitchen is proving resistant becuase of the unique configuration of the outlet plates where the initial power comes in... two dual switches in the old outlet configuration, and then a standard outlet, three outlet parts in all. I'll have to change the two outlet swtiches over to the big rectangular format to accomodate the GFCI, but it will no doubt be worth the expense. The house circuit breakers however are obsolete Federal Pacific (which however are working just fine) and I doubt that there are any AFCI breakers available for them. That will have to wait for a breaker panel box upgrade to SquareD or similar modern brand.

 

[toggleswitch]

What a manly man!

~You have to hire a licensed union electrician at $80+/hr
For entertainement maybe.
I actually do my own wiring with BX instead of allowable Romex. Although plastic sheating is not a bad thing, there is something about a hard steel casing that is resistant to big spikes and nails that works for me.

~The house circuit breakers however are obsolete Federal Pacific (which however are working just fine.
I believe these lost their UL listing /approval rating a long time ago. They appear to be reluctant to blow/trip during overloads and are believed to be a major fire-hazard. I am guessing this is why they can no longer be found.

http://www.ul.com/

 

[toggleswitch]

I almost bought a Round Tuit years back before flea-pay existed. It was in one of those catalogues of small household itmes (Read: Porqueria.. junkly little sh--.)

It was a latexy-rubbery thingy that was round (labeled a round-tuit) and was to be used a a jar opener /gripper.

Here is a wooden version:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-A-Wooden-Ro...yZ123859QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[toggleswitch]

We just can't get that toggle to stop!

~The breakers may also fail to shut off internally even if the toggle is switched to "off."

Defective Toggle. BIG SURPRISE! LOL.

This linked article refers to the "Stab-lok" type

http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm

 

[toggleswitch]

More info.

http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpe.html

 

[toggleswitch]

Identifying the suspect circuit-breakers and panels ("consumer units" across the pond)

http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpeid.htm

 

[toggleswitch]

Here is a 30a that is visibly overheated, most-likely from a a failure to trip when oveloaded.

We know that it is a 220v line in that it is/has 2 poles with what looks like a common trip.

 

[sudsmaster]

Yes, Togs, I am well aware of the history of problems with the Federal Pacific breakers. I got educated over on the THS electrical wiring forums.

However, I know they are working... because I've tripped them on occasion...

The panel was inpsected when I bought the home and there was no sign of arcing (a different FP problem with the Stab-lok panels) or of overheating. I am also careful not to overload circuits.

Of course it's on my list of things to do, that is, replace all the FP panels (there are three on the property), but it's relatively low on the list.

You can find FP breakers, however, they tend to be very expensive. Fortunately I have some spares just in case.

 

[toggleswitch]

Say no to crack!



I could not be sure, but I thought you might have an inkling based on your post.

Well, at least it was a chance for me to pontificate.

 

[toggleswitch]

Hmmm and those wires don't be lookin' like copper, neitha!

 

[sudsmaster]

Yes, I also noticed the aluminum wiring, which is a problem all in itself quite apart from the brand breakers or panel. Unless the connections are designed for aluminum, they can loosen which more or less invites a poor connection, heating, arcing and worse.

My hunch is that FP started making shoddy breakers and/or panels sometime later than those installed in my home (mid-60's). Perhaps that's wishful thinking but it lets me sleep at night.

Hey, if you can't be queen for a day, why not be pontiff for a message or two?

 

[tolivac]

The picture of the wiring in the FP box looks sort of scary-esp the what looks like alunimun cables connected to the 30Abreaker terminal that is overheated-they should call in the electrician at once!In most areas that would not pass code!My place has FP panels like that one-I check it regularly-the cable connectors in it were designed for aluminum cable-they used AL cable for the Water heater,Dryer,AC and Stove runs.So far no problems-I do dream of the day of using that AL cable as "pull snakes" for Copper cable and a new breaker panel!AL cable makes great pull tapes for new copper cables!