Teal 1959 GE Swing-out Shelf Refrigerator

[baltimore]

Hi,

We have a 1959 GE Refrigerator that is not getting cool in the refrigerator compartment. The freezer works fine, but the fridge does not get below 60F in a 68F basement.

Background: The fridge was placed on its side for 30 minutes during transport, and the fridge was left upright for 2 weeks before we plugged it in.

During troubleshooting, I discovered this may has been serviced in the past. I see two issues:

1: In the Freezer Compartment, the metal refrigeration tubing seems to not be routed correctly (circled in blue in the photos). The module hidden on the back wall (wrapped in black foam and not visible in photos) has 2 lines coming out. One goes to the horizontal coil loop, and the other goes into the silver module (visible in the photos).

2. There is a single thin metal tubing line coming from the Refrigerator temperature selection knob. It runs along the top of the ceiling to the back left corner of the coil plate assembly, and then along the back of the coil plate to the right rear corner of the coil plate where the line terminates. It also appears the white/grey rubber grommets are not seated perfectly.

I am thinking about purchasing the online manual, but I wanted to see if anyone has any idea what happened during the previous service attempt. More importantly, I am wondering about what they may have left me with.

I am concerned the improperly routing tubing in the freezer compartment might be causing a problem if the R12 is in liquid form at that stage and requires a downward slope. I could fix this problem and still be faced with the original problem.

I am also concerned about the tubing from the Refrigerator temp switch. I'm not sure if that tubing is supposed to be in a loop with the Refrigerator R12 circuit (the TM should tell me this). This makes me think the line was possibly broken in the past allowing the coolant to leak out rendering the refrigerator inoperable. Maybe this is why they mucked with it in the first place.

Does anyone have any thoughts on how to proceed or do you see anything glaringly wrong? Is it possible to modify the system to be like a modern one where I blow cold air from the freezer into the fridge to maintain 40F in the Fridge? The 1959 system seems like a lot of complicated components to do what a hole, thermostat, and fan can do.

Thank you,
Jeff

 

[pulltostart]

Who you gonna call???

"Refrigeration Busters"!!!

 

Jeff - this is a job for Dave (turbokinetic).  Hopefully he'll see this post and respond to your question.  The man is a genius with refrigeration equipment.

 

lawrence

 

[combo52]

1959 GE refrigerator

The little line in picture number five is completely normal. That’s the sensor which is part of the thermostat.

Do the coils at the top of the refrigerator get cold at all?

I assume it’s running all the time? How cold is the freezer actually getting?

If it’s running all the time and there’s no cooling at all in the refrigerator section, it’s low on refrigerant.

I don’t see any sign from your pictures if this is ever been worked on

John.

 

[baltimore]

The freezer gets to just below 0-deg F. The compressor run as I would expect, and it shuts off when the freezer gets cold. I did not think the Refrigerator temperature switch had a thermostat, I thought it controlled the amount of R12 that is allowed to flow through the secondary refrigeration circuit.

Something interesting happened. When I took my photo of the refrigerator, I had the both doors open for about 5 minutes with the compressor running. Then I realized I need more light, and had to unplug the fridge for a minutes to get the light plugged in. Next, I plugged the refrigerator in again and the compressor would come on for a few seconds and then turn off and I heard a clicking sound similar to a relay tripping. I let it sit for several hours and then plugged it in again the compressor seems to run fine again. I might have forced the system into a failure/protection mode, but this also may be a clue to what else could be going on. I am glad this problem has gone away.

I thought this had been serviced because in photo 4, there is a bracket that looks like it is designed for the tubing to be routed though, and it seems like when they put this back together, they did not get the tubing into the bracket properly.

Is that photo of the showroom of laundry machines at a store in Beltsville, MD?

 

[combo52]

Where are the cold controls in this refrigerator? Is there one in the freezer section and one in the refrigerator section?

I am not entirely familiar with the way this refrigerator works. It may have a secondary refrigeration system for the refrigerator. Some of their older top freezer models did that I never saw it used any bottom freezer refrigerator but it may have been.

If it does have a secondary refrigeration system that operates off the freezer system that system is the culprit. It’s probably lost its refrigerant charge.

In any case, this is not gonna be an easy repair.

That picture is a shot of our museum, which is part of the appliance business that I run with another guy in Beltsville.

John

 

[baltimore]

There is no temper control for the freezer that I see. It does have a metal rod that was sitting loose in the freezer area. I have read some threads that indicate the freezer control can be adjusted be a rod of some sort. If that is the case for mine and the rod was removed, I cannot see where the rod would go. I also do not have a fan in the upper left corner of the freezer that blows air over the coil plate.

I might have been misinterpreting what I was reading about this refrigeration circuit. I found a really good thread last night where you explained how the refrigerator circuit is more of a subcircuit to the freezer circuit with a valve that allows the subcircuit loop to either be or not be allowed to go through the rest of the system. I suspect it may be a leak. If it is a leak, that almost pushes me towards adding a port and fan to blow cold air from the freezer compartment up into the refrigerator compartment. If I had a leak, wouldn't it all work its way out if both systems were connected?

I have seen the refrigeration described in 2 ways.

1) Like you said in that older thread, fridge loop is a subloop to the freezer loop with a gate to control flow from one loop into the other.

2) I have also seen it described where the Freezer coil and the Refrigerator coil only come in contact with one another, and you use a well packed putty to assist in heat transfer back and forth.

Also based on my reading, I would have expected to have a hot gas defrosting system, but in the attached photo of the engineering print it appears there are heaters for defrosting.

It even has a zero in the part number (photo 3) which is probably the most confusing part of this entire machine.

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[whitewhiskers]

From 1959...

 

[combo52]

1959 GE refrigerator

The additional information helps. This refrigerator has just one cold control is not a frost free freezer refrigerator section defrosted each time the compressor cycles off.
There. Is only one refrigeration circuit it is likely low on refrigerant, try adding a few onces or R12 and see how it behaves

Since the cold control is in the refrigerator section the compressor should be running all the time if the compressor is healthy the freezer should be 10-20 below zero.

 

[114jwh]

I also have a GE cycle defrost, a few years older than yours and mine is a top freezer. When you first start mine up, the freezer begins getting cold first for quite some time while the refrigerator section remains warm. Once the freezer section gets down to temperature only then do the coils in the fridge start getting cold and the temperature begins dropping. Once the thermostat is satisfied with the temperature in the fridge then it shuts off and cycles to maintain. There is no thermostat in the freezer section in mine either, the temperature of the freezer is controlled by the thermostat in the fridge. My freezer maintains a temperature of about -10 or thereabouts. I don't really fully understand how this works but thats what I see with mine.

What I don't understand about yours though is if the thermostat is located in the fridge, it shouldn't shut off unless its satisfied by the temperature in the fridge section. I'm not sure if this is possible but perhaps it could be cycling on some kind of high limit circuit that protects the compressor from overheating instead of cycling with the thermostat?

I'm certainly no refrigeration expert but thought this might be helpful in case yours works on a similar principle. It looks to be a really nice fridge so hope you can get it working

 

[baltimore]

This is great news that it could possibly be a little bit low on refrigerant. Can you tell me the name of the special fitting required to add R12? I have been searching around and keep running into info about 134 conversions.

It is also great to know that it takes a little while before the refrigerator begins to start cooling. I recorded the freezer temperature over time. I have 2 thermometers and the number from the digital one is listed below. The second dial type thermometer consistently read a little bit higher than the digital thermometer. Do you have a rough idea of how long it takes before your coils get cold or for your refrigerator cavity to get fully cooled?

0.0h 65.0F
3.5h -3.7F
5.5h -9.4F (had the freezer open for 2min)
6.0h -9.2F (added 2 ice cube trays)
10.0h -4.4F (ice cubes half frozen)
27.0h -20.0F (dial type thermometer reads -14F)
28.0h same (Fridge temp is 58.3F on digital, Fridge coil feels cool on RHS)
29.0h same (Thermometer placed on top of coil (RHS) shows 53.3F digital)
39.0h same (Fridge temp 53F on digital)

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[114jwh]

Jeff, just to help clarify, I think it might be helpful for the experts to understand how often the compressor is running during these time intervals. Once its stablized a bit from powering it up initially, did it run for approx 15 minutes and then shut down for 5 etc? Or is the compressor running the entire time without shutting off in your chart above?

On mine, it usually takes maybe 30 - 45 min at the most from initial power on for the cooling to start happening in the fridge (at which time the freezer has become quite cold). However mine is a top freezer so it could be quite different in yours but you definitely should be seeing the fridge getting colder over the time interval you've recorded above.

 

[good-shepherd]

special fitting required to add R12?

R12 fittings are 1/4 SAE.

So if using a can of R12 you'll need a can tap and hose for R12.
(Preferable one that can be resealed to save leftover R12).

R134 gauges and hoses could also be used with adapters.

 

[rp2813]

It doesn't appear that anyone has responded about the clicking sound you heard after briefly unplugging the fridge.  That's a normal compressor "lock-out" function.  This protects the compressor by preventing it from operating until pressure in the sealed system has equalized.  This is a very common occurrence when the compressor has cycled off for any reason and is reactivated too soon.

 

It's possible that during transport, a component of the sealed system could have been compromised, such as a valve becoming stuck open or closed, or a bit of debris getting dislodged and causing a clog or restriction in a section of small tubing, etc.  This sort of thing has been documented in videos posted here by David (turbokinetic), a highly skilled and meticulous Fridge Whisperer who has almost never met a sick or dead fridge that he couldn't restore to proper operation, sometimes with a simple fix, other times through expert troubleshooting.  He's a busy guy, but I expect him to show up and provide his $ .02 subsequently.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[baltimore]

In 30 minutes of observation, the compressor ran continuously. The fridge temp was 50.3F and I unplugged the refrigerator.

When I was talking about the charging port, I was thinking the cylindrical piece of metal shown in the attached photos was the charging port. Is there a fitting that goes connects to this cylinder and then also the hose to the filling can? I thought I had read about a proprietary GE adapter for connecting to their port. Also, how much of a concern is that corrosion on the line? I was going to gently clean it and apply paint. I figured it was from getting wet at various points over time and was surface corrosion on the outside of the pipe.

 

[combo52]

1959 GE refrigerator

Hi Jeff , there are two charging ports the one at the top that’s attached directly to the compressor is the low side port the one below it is the high side port. There is a special tool that she used to directly access the refrigeration system.

I don’t think these tools are very common anymore. I haven’t seen them available an older repair person may have one still.

The way to proceed on this repair would be to do a vacuum check on the low side. You have to pinch off the suction line and run the compressor. It needs to be able to pull at least 30 inches of vacuum to know whether the compressor is healthy unfortunately GE compressors of this era tend to wear out and there’s a very good chance that this compressor is shot, I would confirm that I can pull a 30 inch vacuum. If it can’t you need to look for another compressor.

If the compressor passes the vacuum test, you could try recharging it and hope the leak is small. It may last for a while.

I would not worry about the rust or corrosion that’s not gonna cause this refrigerator to fail in anybody’s lifetime unless you just wanna clean it up and throw the paint on it.

 

[baltimore]

Do you think there is probably at least a small leak based on my symptoms, or is there a possibility the symptoms could all be from a low performing compressor?

I believe in another thread you mentioned upgrading to a modern R12 compressor solely for the energy savings. Maybe I should just plan for that. Are those compressors readily available? Or do you have an extra one at your shop you could part with?

Am I able to save the R12 in the system and reuse it? Maybe it is not worth the trouble. How much would the R12 gas cost be to completely charge this system? I wouldn't mind replacing the compressor if there were no leaks, but I am worried fixing the leak could be more difficult than replacing the compressor.

 

[good-shepherd]

How much would the R12 gas cost

NOS 12-14 oz cans of R12 are going for $40 each and up on eBay these days.

 

[turbokinetic]

The tool for this was sold by Robinair. I made a video on one of them here:  

 

You can use alternative refrigerants besides R12 if you can't get it.  My go-to is R152A.  This doesn't change any of the repair process, including the necessity of repairing the leak and removing moisture from the system. The only difference is that you can get refrigerant easily and without a license. But as said you can't take any shortcuts on the repairs before recharging. If you don't take the proper steps you will set yourself up for failure regardless of what refrigerant is used.

 

[baltimore]

Thank you so much. eBay has a few (Robinair B30 14476) available for $8 to $20.

If it passes the leak down test, I can then begin a search for an R12 compressor. If I mechanically installed a new compressor, will a traditional HVAC mechanic be able/willing to solder the pipes to the compressor (and fill refrigerant) on-site? I'd rather not move it again if I don't have to.

How reliable are the cold temp switch and module? That would be my other concern before replacing the compressor.

In the attached photo of the right rear freezer ceiling area, does anyone know what the blue and red arrow are pointing to? Does anyone know the purpose of the bracket with the black arrow? It looks like the silver tubing was supposed to be routed through there.