this is why folks are concerned about the health bill

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The Empires of Britian and European Powers

Were not purely based upon land overseas possessions, though that was a large part of their empire.

See the above link as to the book's thesis on why great empires of the past crumbled.

While sad for Americans to hear, many persons on both sides of political spectrum predict the US is in decline and China is rising. While yes, the later country does not have a huge military power, they are working on it, however this does work to their advantage. While Russia and the United States are spending vast sums on their military and such activities, China does not have the same drain on it's resources. Indeed China benefits greatly from many of the wars/military action started and being run by the United States.

China is very active in Iraq, Iran, Africa, Cuba, South America and the Middle East. The country has vast financial reserves and *NO* debt, which makes it quite easy for them to carry out polices in their own self interest.

China is also moving away from an economy based upon manufacturing export, especially only with the United States. The country has a HUGE supply of educated workforce, especially in areas the US is lacking such as engineers. While the United States kicks visa college graduates out of the country soon as they graduate (if they can get into the country at all),other countries around the world welcome Chinese students and allow them to stay upon graduation.

In short unless the US finally wakes up, it is only a matter of time before the balance of power moves to Asia, (China & perhaps India).
 
Well, the fact is that the USA has been riding on its role in WWII for the past 70 years.

We were the ultimate victors, alone among the combatants with our manufacturing infrastructure and cities left intact, undamaged by the ravages of war. In time that led to complacency and today our infrastructure suffers in comparison with that of those countries that were forced to rebuild (Japan, Germany, England, etc) or had nothing in the way of infrastructure to begin with (China, India).

We had an economic boom in the 90's largely based on a relatively new industry - high tech electronics and computer software/services/internet. But as we all know that was much over inflated, as was the following housing boom.

What we need to do is to get back to basics. When and if that will happen, who knows? But a first step necessarily may be to wean ourselves off cheap and plentiful mfg goods from China, as well as relatively cheap imported fossil fuels.

Do I have a solution? No, and I don't think that anyone does. The economic imbalances in trade and debt probably will have to run their course before any great changes are made. Unfortunately when that point is finally reached... there may be a lot of bad stuff happening...
 
Lets talk healthcare/religion- above the church operating cost the money would be well used added to the healthcare bank, Not on polititcal issues such as prop8 in california, the portion on prop8 should of required taxes to be paid as in separation of church and state. Immigration, unless the plan is to give the land back to the native americans, process these folks and let them in, we are all immigrants and not too many generations back in the past. Education funding I am all for it. Where is all that gambling casino money, and state lotto money, in all cases i know of gambling/lotto was passed to fund education. Where is the money??? Abortion keep it legal and if it has to be unfunded by government, ban insurance/govt. $ for cialis and viagra, their use could lead to abortion. IMHO abortion and the little blue pill should of been debated as reproductive medicine. I think it is quite seldom a woman gets up and says i think i will get an abortion today, i would think she would have conviction on why she has chosen abortion. i think all tax exempt charities should have to have internet transparency, with a healthy fine for duping the public. I guess I think its unfair that organizations ringing up big $ do not seem held to the same standards that American citizens are. I hope President Obama clips the wings on some of these other abuses that just slide by, year after year. End the useless wars, continue to hunt osama bin laden with high tech drones and such and bring our young men and women home. please dear santa. alr2903
 
sorry i typed to much, even Bill Maher, points out that we have fully operational military installations in Germany, Japan, Korea. Is that necessary in this day and age, the wars with these contries have been over for decades. Not to jump back to education, yes close the public schools give parents vouchers, give them a choice. Lets not have to recycle junk mail any more, i do not want circulars and advertisements, to throw into the trash can on my walk up the hill from the mailbox. Cut U.S. mail delivery to Monday, Wednesday and Friday, Add those savings to healthcare too. Let walmart, walgreens add a secure mail drop off point, so we do not waste gas driving to the post office when a bill comes in. alr2903
 
Quote from Robert above, "The idea of people not being able to afford or simply get health insurance must seem downright neanderthal to all of those outside the USA."

Yes!!!

It just astounds me.

We went through all this scenario in the 1970s and 1980s in AU, when our national health insurance scheme was introduced. Predictions the sky would fall in. Send the country bankrupt. People would die due to rationed, poor quality healthcare. Socialized medicine. Guess what actually happened?...
Australia spends a LOWER percentage of its GDP on healthcare than USA does. Yet Australia has better health outcomes than USA. Lower infant mortality. Longer life expectancy. Better patient satisfaction. The system actually WORKS. It creaks and groans at times, it is still somewhat under-funded, we do have a shortage of qualified doctors in many regions. The Conservative side of politics still hates it and tries to water it down whenever they are in power, but they dare not dismantle it because they would be wiped out at the next election. Universal health cover is part of the Australian landscape now.

I am horrified at reports I am reading and hearing about loony behaviour of reform opponents in the USA. (death threats, sabotage, and so on.) The wingnuts have a lot to answer for.
 
After the initial hysteria things will calm down and America

Robert commented that this may take a generation or two. I think that it won't. As many have observed, this is the beginning of something that has to evolve into, hopefully, something much better. When people begin to see the benefits to themselves and the broader community they will change their minds and do it quickly.

Obama, for all his faults, is a good and intelligent man who is trying to do the right thing for his country. I consider him to be a man of far sounder morals, trustworthiness and greater resolve than his predecessor.

And if you really don't want him send him to us. I will have Obama any day over our current prime minister Kevin Blahblahsniveltoad.

Olav
 
As For Companies Cutting Or Revising Their Employee/Retiree

That Waxman man in Congress has gotten the scent, and along with another (Stubeck?) has sent letters to heads of said companies,and summoned them to Washington for the now all too familiar public mounting ritual. A little putting the stick about in front of the media has served Democrats well these past few months.
 
Launderess...........

Medicare is the universal system in Oz that covers everybody with basic medical...

Yes, we do have to pay some tax for it in addition to our normal tax rate....but not as much as you may think...How does 1.5% of your taxable income (after deductions and provided you already hold private cover) sound? This rises to 2.5% if an individual has no private cover....

You may wonder why you have to pay it if you already have private cover......well, some things can't be claimed via your private cover, such as a visit to a GP, and others don't get claimed (generally) via Medicare - say reading glasses, which are claimed back via private cover....

I would also suggest that people may like to read the Wikipedia link on the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme too...to see just what Governments can do to help ALL of a population....I may also add that there was immense pressure from American politicians on behalf of drug companies when Australia was negotiating our Free Trade Agreement that we dismantle the PBS to give them, effectively, the ability to control the cost of medicines in this country.....

....we would have then seen medication prices similar to America

Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Medicare (Australia) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Interesting, ronhic...

You know, we USAians already pay something like 4% of our income toward Medicare/Medicaid - we pay half, our employer pays half. (I don't remember the exact amount).

What is truly shocking is that the true liability of these programs here is COMPLETELY unfunded.

Hunter
 
Medicare is not 4%

 
Medicare is 2.9%. Employee deduction, employer contribution are each 1.45%. There's no limit on wages subject to Medicare.

Social Security is 6.2% each employee & employer, on maximum of $106,800 yearly wages per employee. Maximum Social Security deduction (for both 2009 and 2010) is $6,621.60.

Medicare + Social Security is 7.65% each employee & employer, aggregate total 15.3%.

Self-employed pay the full 15.3% (after a slight adjustment on business profit) but 1/2 of it is an income credit (NOT a tax credit) on the yearly 1040 tax return.
 
Bill Maher echos my thoughts -

but with better prose:

New Rule: You can't use the statement "there will be no cooperation for the rest of the year" as a threat if there was no cooperation in the first half of the year. Here's a word the president should take out of his teleprompter: bipartisanship. People only care about that in theory, not in practice. The best thing that's happened this year is when President Obama finally realized this and said, "Kiss my black ass, we're going it alone, George W. Bush style."

Two months ago, conservative Fred Barnes wrote, "The health care bill is dead with not the slightest prospect of resurrection." Well, if it's dead, you just got your ass kicked by a zombie named Nancy Pelosi. Seriously, the last time a Democrat showed balls like that John Edwards' girlfriend was filming it. Make all the botox jokes and she-shops-too-much jokes you want, but this is the biggest political victory a woman has ever achieved in America. Yes, Nancy Pelosi likes nice clothes. So does Sarah Palin. The difference is Nancy Pelosi pays for hers.

But even before the Democrats got to take a single victory lap they were already being warned not to get used to the feeling, and not to get drunk with power. I disagree. All you Democrats: do a shot, and then do another. Get drunk on this feeling of not backing down and doing what you came to Washington to do.

Democrats should not listen to the people who are now saying they shouldn't attempt anything else big for a while because health care was such a bruising battle. Wrong -- because I learned something watching the lying bullies of the Right lose this one: when they're losing, they squeal like a pig. They kept saying things like, the bill was being "shoved down our throats" or the Democrats were "ramming it through." The bill was so big they couldn't take it all at once!

And I realized listening to this rhetoric that it reminded me of something: Tiger Woods' text messages to his mistress that were made public last week, where he said, and I quote, "I want to treat you rough, throw you around, spank and slap you and make you sore. I want to hold you down and choke you while I f*** that ass that I own. Then I'm going to tell you to shut the f*** up while I slap your face and pull your hair for making noise." Unquote.

And this, I believe, perfectly represents the attitude Democrats should now have in their dealings with the Republican Party: "Shut the f*** up while I slap your face for making noise -- now pass a cap-and-trade law, you stupid bitch, and repeat after me: 'global warming is real!'"

The Democrats need to push the rest of their agenda while their boot is on the neck of the greedy, poisonous old reptile. Who cares if a cap-and-trade bill isn't popular, neither was health care. Your poll numbers may have descended a bit, but so did your testicles.

So don't stop: we need to regulate the banks, we need to overhaul immigration, we need to end corporate welfare including at the Pentagon, we need to bring troops home from... everywhere, we need to end the drug war, and we need to put terrorists and other human rights violators on trial in civilian courts, starting with Dick Cheney.

Democrats in America were put on earth to do one thing: drag the ignorant hillbilly half of this country into the next century, which in their case is the 19th -- and by passing health care, the Democrats saved their brand. A few months ago, Sarah Palin mockingly asked them, "How's that hopey-changey thing working out for ya?" Great, actually. Thanks for asking. And how's that whole Hooked on Phonics thing working out for you?
 
I hear you MattL, I enjoy Mr. Maher, i also identify with Ms. Wanda Sikes' America. alr2903
 
I am really surprised

everyone is not outraged. Yes, we need affordable health care for Americans. But, HOW DARE the federal government tell its citizens that if you live and breathe you WILL pay for insurance, or be FINED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I believe that is a CROCK and UNCONSTITUTIONAL at best. So, the only way to get around this is to stop breathing and die?
 
As I mentioned in another thread, I was recently on vaccation in the states.
One day, I was sitting in my rental car, waiting for a traffic light to change, a fireman approached me. At first I was very alarmed and thought there must be some terrible accident ahead of me.
But to my surprise he just wished me a good ride for muscular dystrophy, putting a collection boot right under my nose.
I played the I don`t understand what is this about card and he left me alone.
Don`t get me wrong I`m all for helping others in need and I would have been happy to pay my share with slightly higher taxes. But my point is how degrading it must be for someone seriously ill to depend on charity and the goodwill of others.

Obama`s bill may not be perfect but it is a milestone in the right direction to humanity. I`m dancing in the streets with you guys !
 
mrboilwash

These collections are usually for research programs. Whilst there is government an private enterprise funding for all sorts of medical research, they also rely on fundraiser donations from the general public.
 
MD

Indeed, that money was for research AND to help families deal with the costs.

I see it exactly the opposite - how wonderful that people are so generous they are willing to give tens of billions of dollars each year to deal with terrible diseases.

That's one of the truly wonderful things about the USA - ordinary people do NOT wait for the "powers that be" to do things.

Thanks re: the statistics for SS/Medicare -- I couldn't remember what they were. I thought it was somewhere around 4%.

What is so shocking to people is to realize that given the employer tax burden, no wonder why nobody is hiring.
 

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