To Heat Pump, or Not To Heat Pump... Help?!?!

[matthewza]

Hello All and warm greetings from sunny South Africa.

So as the subject suggests, I am conflicted...

My fiance and I are moving to a new apartment in a few weeks, and I want to get a new dryer. Currently I have an LG 7.5kg vented (https://www.lg.com/za/tumble-dryers/lg-TD-V75120E-vented-tumble-dryer) which I love and it works great and has never let me down. But it stands in the lounge and vents into the room (I leave the windows open and balcony open when in use) but the new apartment has a washer/dryer stack setup in the kitchen and I think I want a non-vented dryer so that I dont have dryer lint blowing into the kitchen, and also, I want a more energy efficient dryer. Currently my fiances mother pays our electricity bill, so I actually have no idea what it comes to, but we will be paying that ourselves in the new apartment and I know our current dryer isnt the most efficient. Currently I dry everything on low heat thinking that that surely reduces energy consumption (even though it increases drying time). We have an 8kg LG DD FL that spins at 1200rpm and I have a spin dryer that I then still use on whatever has to go to the dryer so that I really run it for as little time as possible. We wash about 4 loads a week, but I only tumble dry socks, underwear, pjs, towels and pillow cases. So the dryer only runs for about 1 or 2 hours a week.

So ever since heat pump dryers came out, I wanted 1. But they are more than twice the price of a basic vented dryer. The 3 options I am looking at are:

- Defy 8kg heat pump. ZAR6000 at the scratch & dent dealer (ZAR9000 in stores)
https://www.defy.co.za/product/8kg-heatpump-dryer/

- Smeg 8kg heat pump. ZAR8000 in stores (more money than I would want to spend, but I would bite the bullet if need be)
https://www.smeg.co.za/product/dhtw81esa/

These are the 2 cheapest HP dryers available in SA. The Samsung, Siemens and Grundig and Miele are all over the ZAR10000 mark, so they are not options.

And then lastly a Bosch Serie4 8kg condensor (Bosch has not brought a HP to SA yet) which retails for between ZAR7000 and ZAR7500
https://www.bosch-home.com/za/produ...s/WTM8326SZA?breadcrumb=condensertumbledryers

I added the Bosch to my list as it has a B energy rating and has good reviews.

However, last night I found this article and now I am scared that SA might not be the right place to own a HP dryer, as now in Cape Town in Summer, we have days that reach up to 37C outside (then drops to around 16C in winter). Our new flat is on the 12th floor and no aircon. Would a HP be less effective with our climate? Should I rather just buy a regular condensor?

https://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help/buying-advice/tumble-dryers/3845-are-heat-pump-dryers-worth-it

If you professionals out there reckon a regular condensor would be a better bet, then I might just find a good 2nd hand one, but if you reckon that I could use a HP, then I will trust your judgement and bite the bullet once we move.

Warmest Regards to you all and thanks in advance!

 

[henene4]

The normal condenser will struggle more then the heatpump.

The heatpump will need to cook more and thus live a little shorter, but not to worry.

The 2 hp models are made by the same company, so that is a tossup.

 

[suds]

I reckon heatpump...

Hey Matthew !

(Fellow ex Saffa here - originally for Somerset West!). Upgrading to the heatpump will benefit you in many ways. Very little heat is released into the room, they dry at lower temperatures which protects your clothing, and give the ever increasing electricity prices over there they make sense as they are way more frugal. The non-heatpump condensoer will struggle in the warmer weather and have to heat up really hot to dry the clothes and the pump loads of warm air into your apartment. I didn’t realise good ol defy have launched a heatpump Dryer - Heavens their old centre dryer wilt slight facia upgrade has been sold for years.

 

[matthewza]

@henene4 Thanks for the input. I am also worried that a condensor would struggle to condense on a hot summers day.

@suds small world! And yes - those old vented 5kg Defy Autodry's that just got a facia change every few years, were and are legendary! I have had a couple over the years when I used to wheel and deal. If it wasnt for the fact that I like having sensor dry and a bit more space than 5kg, I would probably still have 1! My aunt and uncle have 1 that they got 2nd hand from me and it must be about 20 years old now (was about 15 when they got it) and its STILL GOING. I think my uncle has replaced the belt a few times, but even with the abuse of a 4 adult, 12 dog and 6 cat household (that thing gets the clothes, towels and blankets thrown at it), it just doesnt die. They have said its the best dryer they have ever had.

Defy brought out an HP dryer a while ago already. This is the 2nd generation. And from what I have heard, they are selling and they never come up on the used market, so I assume that people like them.

I think for now I will just hang onto my beloved LG 7.5kg vented dryer. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with it, (I had to replace the belt last year, but I bought it in 2012 and needed to have the heater replaced and it got fair use and then when I left the family home in Jan 2014 and took it with me, it has seen very regular and sometimes heavy use, but it just keeps going! and it ,ust also be nearing the 20 year age mark?)

Maybe for the warm SA climate, a vented makes sense. I dry everything (even towels) on low heat, so will be interested to see what the electric bill comes too from the end of December (we only move 1 Dec.)

Side note - are the energy ratings the same across the globe and accross all brands? Like does a B rating on a Bosch mean the same as a B rating on Whirlpool for example? Is there a set of parameters that are used to determine the rating? Like A means between X and Y kilowatts, B between X and Y kilowats, etc?

 

[henene4]

Never heated of the Defy brand, but everything in terms of laundry and dishes on their website is Arcrelik sourced.

We do have an Arcrelik EU A+++ unit since about 6 months for our flat share and it is amazing.
Pretty quiet with the inverter motor. No inverter heat pump, but at 400-500W its incredible efficient, silent and delicate drying. And surprisingly quick.
Reversing on this one is kind of a joke (on Cottons it reverses for 1 turn every 10min) but somehow nothing tangles. Even my oversized bedding usually dries evenly without balling.
One thing that is really nice compared to the Whirlpool made Bauknecht we got back home: The heat pump stays on through the reversing period and even more nice: It does not have a restart delay on the heat pump.

Let me tell you about that which verry little people know or talk about:
Some higher power heat pumps can only start up every couple of minutes.
If the pressure differential across the compressor is to large, it would pull to much power during startup due to resistance of the coolant.
That means if you interupt the cycle of the Whirlpool and restart it, it effectively won't dry for 2-5 minutes after the restart.
So untangling by hand if something ever tangles extends the cycle significantly.
Timed cycles are effectively 5-10 minutes shorter then you select.

This heat pump starts up right away after an interruption or such. No waiting around.
So nice, really.

On efficiency: Those ratings are usually government based.
Across the EU they are uniformly mandated in terms of testing and consequent results.

Possible SA just copied the EU or they have their own system.

 

[matthewza]

Defy is a stalwart in the SA appliance world. Its been here for over 100 years (literally) and has a reputation of being incredibly reliable,easy and cheap to fix, and their appliances are very well priced too. From what I have seen, its pretty much rebadged Beko appliances like in the UK (which are probably rebranded Arcelik?)

Thanks for the heads-up about HP dryers that have a delay on the condensor. How would 1 know if this is the case with a particular dryer before purchasing? Would there be a note in the manual?Ask the manufacturer?

As I said, I dont neeeed to replace my LG... I just want a new toy as I have already upgraded the washer and dishwasher earlier this year (also LG. I'm a fanboy) so maybe I should just do more research and hold out a little bit longer before making a purchase.

 

[liamy1]

I’ve been

Wanting one for a while, but never bit the the bullet so to speak as the stories of hugely increased drying time put me off.

I currently have a condenser (always have) and I like it, then only one problem is it heats up (my heavily insulated granted) house way way too much - to the point we put fans on (which I know does very little) and it’s not an old condenser either. So I’ve really been keeping an eye on HP machines for the lower temperature aspect. Upside, whilst my electricity bill is sky high- (my dryer is almost never off - joys of U.K. weather) my Gas bill is stupidly low.

Sorry, no real useful advice for you other than that out of the brands you mention, I would say either Bosch or the Defy (I’ve never heard of them either, but as you say they’re known for being reliable)

I would not have a Smeg.... anything actually, most (if not all) Smeg products do shockingly bad when reviewed by Which? (Make of this what you will) and I’ve read some true horror stories over the years online with regards to Smeg products.

 

[suds]

Drying times

Hi hi

The HP dryer will give off little heat , mine operates in a cupboard with the door ajar so that it can breathe a little as the condenser fan comes on ocasionally but that’s it’s . Weekly I wash 3 sets of bedlinen sheets and pillowcases for 1 super king and 2 doubles - all in same washload then dry them separately as it creases less - each set takes about 40 mins on the bedlinen cycle. A full load of cottons , socks underwear pj’s t-shirts of around 4-5 kg takes 80-90 mins and 4K of teowels takes 100-110 mins - is that too long? - what kinda drying times do you have on your condenser? Also I have less shrinkage due to lower heat and energy saving too - the only thing is the higher initial purchase price.

 

[liamy1]

Thanks

Very much for that suds.

Those times seem very good actually, the same as my condenser, if not a bit faster??

I'd been reading times quoted on some reviews as 4+ hours to dry a load.

If I can ask, which model do you have please?

 

[wayupnorth]

Next door neighbors bought a $2100 Whirlpool front load washer with only a cold inlet and heater and a condenser dryer for the fair weather months when they are here and hate hanging stuff out. That stupid dryer takes 2 1/2 hours to dry a load of towels and a gallon of water to lug and pour out. They wouldnt listen and buy a regular stacked model for half that price and then now wonder why their electric bill went up so much.

 

[launderess]

While a heat pump dryer may prove better in some ways

Am now saddled with the AEG Lavatherm and only use the thing during winter/cooler months. Unless outdoor temps are < 50F or so one just doesn't bother. Lighter things aren't that much of a bother, but heavy loads and or items just take too long IMHO.

Did an oversized load of towels and wash leathers in the AEG Lavamat other night (machine said load was at 120% full). Chucked the lot into my vintage WP small dryer, things were done in about one hour and fifteen minutes. In fact the load finished drying before Lavamat completed second load. Most things were dry in about an hour, but some of the heavier towels needed a bit longer.

Mind you did set the washer to final spin speed of 1800rpms.

 

[suds]

AEG’s

Hi Launderess

Your AEG’s are the pre Electrolux , what some would consider, properly put together ones? Would love a pic

S

 

[launderess]

Were several threads at the time

So won't bore everyone again, but you can see pictures here:

https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?47213

https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?47752

First Wash In The Lavamat

Ah love dis machine! Sorted out a temporary fix to the busted legs and figured why not go for a mortgage? Really needed to do the wash as both the linen stores and quite frankly personal linen supply was running low. Hooked up the water hose, put drain hose in sink and we were off: First load...

www.automaticwasher.org

 

[rolls_rapide]

"Your AEG’s are the pre Electrolux"

Er, no - not quite.

The tumble dryer might be, but the washing machine has seen some meddling from Electrolux/Zanussi designers.

True AEGs had the knob(s) on the left and the powder drawer on the right. My Lavamat 'Update' 1600rpm model was of that configuration. It looked similar to Launderess's, but drawer and knob were switched about, and mine had fewer LED displays. Launderess's drum looks as though it has been Zanussified too. The drum lifters look identical to my deceased Zanussi IZ.

 

[suds]

Ah ...

I see - the “pure” AEG’s were such good machines. Been a fan since childhood

 

[mrboilwash]

Depends on what you mean with "pure".
AEG went insolvent in 1982. In 1985 Daimler Benz took over. AEG Hausgeräte (appliances) was sold to Electrolux in 1994, but part of production still went on in Germany until 2007.

 

[suds]

Ok....

....so i guess I’m keen on the German produced machines then - thx for the brief history lesson

 

[launderess]

There is good and bad with Electrolux taking over AEG

To be sure, but that happens all over.

Electrolux certainly improved the Lavatherm condenser dryer design. Adding a secondary filter (which IIRC Miele and others had for years), did much to keep interior of dryers clear of lint which had many benefits.