Wall Mounted Toilets

[rp2813]

Is anyone familiar with these?  We're in the initial stages of deciding the new configuration for the bathroom we intend to convert into the master en-suite, and I'd like to take advantage of the opportunity to install a wall-mount toilet (with exposed tank) since the location of the toilet will for sure be changing in the new scheme.

 

There aren't a lot of options out there.  American Standard offers one, but it has a pressure assist flush mechanism, which is something I've never cared for.  The one that seems to have everything I'm looking for is the Gerber Maxwell model 20-021 with elongated bowl.  I've never heard of Gerber before, but haven't found any negative (or positive for that matter) reviews on it.  The big selling point for me is the gravity flush as opposed to pressure assisted.  I've found this model on line for $290 with free shipping.  I don't think I can do any better than that through the local Gerber distributor.

 

Here's a link to it.  Suggestions, experience sharing or comments welcome.

http://www.decorisland.com/product/gerber/0020021/maxwell-het-1-28gpf-wall-hung-back-outlet/maxwell/white/?detailsfeed=yes#feeddetails

 

[turboace]

I'm pretty sure that's the brand of just about every toilet I've ever seen while traveling in Belgium and Germany on business. Most, if not all, the toilets there are wall mounted.

 

[yogitunes]

for everyone I have ever seen or used and cleaned....your best bet is a wall mounted unit no matter which one you choose....

cleaning the toilet, check your model that your thinking about, some have clean lines, no nook and crannies that you need a toothbrush to get at...

and the big benerfit is the floor area, a simple wipe with a mop, and your done....

any thoughts Ralph on a bidet...as an add on or attachment?...maybe even built in!

 

[mattl]

The bath remodeling shows use wall hung all the time, most have the tank in the wall.  I've had 3 wall hung toilets, and the last one is my favorite.  All were in my basement bathroom where in floor plumbing would be a pain.  The first lasted 15 years, finally cracked, replaced it with one I found in a salvage yard, it had issues, then replaced it with the current unit that is an American standard 1.6 gal. flush.  The kicker is it uses a flush valve, no tank.  You need a decent water supply, it wants a 1" line, I used 3/4, and have no issues.  flushes well every time.

 

[logixx]

every toilet I've ever seen while traveling in Belgium a

Yeah, looks like a regular toilet. Is that like new technology to the US? We have the tank hidden in the wall.

 

[supersuds]

Gerber is an American (theoretically) company, that used to be a family operation. When the older generation passed away, the heirs sold it, and everything is now made in China. Here's an article about them.

The good news is that Consumer Reports rated the Gerber Avalanche 21-118 the second best toilet they tested in the Sept 2012 issue. They didn't test the Maxwell wall mount unit, but the Maxwell Dual Flush DF-21-118 was the worst dual flush model listed...so I dunno if that helps any.

http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=152033

 

[supersuds]

Duravit

The German company Duravit has an extensive line of wall mounted toilets.

http://www.duravit.us/website/homepage/products/product_overview/categories/toilets.us-en.html

 

[rapidry1000]

Crane makes a wall mount gravity flush elongated bowl toilet called the Rexmont. Crane toilets are a division of Universal Rundle. How effective the flush I do not know.

 

[rp2813]

Thanks for the responses thus far. 

 

I'm unfamiliar with the in-wall tank system.  Since the tank is where the vast majority of issues with toilets develop, my concern is accessibility.  What does one do when the flapper needs replacing or the valve goes bad?

 

A tankless flush valve model is out of the question.  The supply line from the meter is only 3/4" and reduces down to 1/2" for the household system.  Pressure leaves much to be desired.  That type would also be noisy and likely far too institutional looking, particularly to a female, for resale purposes at some point down the road.

 

There's no room for a bidet or I'd for sure be considering one.  I intend to place an electrical outlet in a location that would be convenient for an add-on bidet seat assembly.

 

I didn't find any tank type wall mounts from Crane when I checked before.  I'll look into the Rexmont as a possible alternative to the Gerber.  The local supplier couldn't find the model number for the Gerber Maxwell wall mount, so either it's very new or discontinued.

 

[rapidry1000]

check Terry Love's website for information on toilets. That's where I found the information on Crane's wall mounted toilet as well as American Standard's. There were a lot of comments from readers of the site on the quality control issues of American Standard wall mounted toilets.

 

[rp2813]

I was on Terry's site and did see the complaints about A.S.  I saw complaints about floor mount A.S. toilets there as well when I was shopping for a new one last year.  I did in fact purchase an A.S. toilet and didn't have any of the problems that were described.  It's still fine a year after installation.  Maybe I just got lucky.  That would be the assumption based on comments found on Love's site.

 

I'll go back there and look for information on Crane.  All I saw when I visited before were brief mentions of Crane and Gerber as alternatives to A.S. and Toto, but no information about how they compare.  Time to take a closer look . . .

 

[hydralique]

You might check Toto. A client chose wall mount Totos for a major remodel a couple of years ago; so far he and his husband seem very happy with them and they're fairly particular people. The tank is in the wall but there is an access panel for maintenance.

 

[alr2903]

With a wall mount you sure would have the option of  tweaking the height of the commode.  I guess of course only if it is you forever house. None of us are getting any younger.  I guess it also depends on how tall you and the others in the home are. alr

 

 

[mrboilwash]

Seems the American Gerber brand is easily confused with Geberit.

 

[sudsmaster]

The cleanability of a wall mount commode surely would be a plus, but I'd be a bit concerned about the lack of diversity in the residential offerings. At least with a floor mount there's a wealth of options out there.

Maybe you can find a Navy surplus stainless steel model?

But if you're doing a remodel anyway, why not add:

1) A wall mount urinal

2) A bidet

BTW, The two floor mount one piece Waterridge "Water Sense" 1.1/1.6 floor mount toilets I installed this year are doing just fine.

 

[turboace]

Thanks mrboilwash. I knew it was something like that!

 

[rp2813]

Additional Fixtures

Rich, there's no room for either a separate bidet or urinal.  I'd be considering both otherwise, but I wonder if a urinal would also require a 3/4" or 1" supply for its flush valve.

 

After further reading, the big concerns with wall mount toilets are (surprise) structural.  They require 2x6 studs, and most interior walls have 2x4.  I may be in luck since in the new scheme, the toilet would be mounted on an exterior wall.  Even if there are 2x6 studs behind the sheet rock, adjustments will be necessary.  The toilets I've looked at have mounting bolts spaced 17+" apart.

 

Some toilets are rated to support as many as 800 lbs.  Of course, this assumes the mounting is solid and has no give.  When you're dealing with wood, even minor flexing is something that needs to be considered.  Unless the mounting is solid as a brick en-suite, issues can develop with the rear seal, which is not a wax ring as is used with a floor mount.  Still, there are testimonials on line as well as the one in reply #11 above that indicate wall mount toilets can remain trouble free for many years.  We have friends who live in a 1962 home that still has its original wall mount toilets and the only problem they've presented is finding new seats that fit their peculiar mounting holes.  With modern toilets, that's a non-issue.

 

I'm expecting any plumber I speak with to try to talk me out of wall mount, based on price of the fixture as well as the precision plumbing that it requires.  It's clear from my research that the most important decision involved with a wall mount is hiring a plumber who has experience with them and knows what he's doing.  Otherwise you should anticipate immediate problems.

 

This may be prove to be more trouble and expense than it's worth, but unless there's an insurmountable engineering problem it will require a good amount of convincing before I agree to reconsider.

 

[hydralique]

I would not expect your exterior envelope walls to be 2 x 6 on an older home of not more than two stories. While an exterior wall is usually stronger than an interior wall, you will have the complication of the foundation below if this is a first story application. Basically you will have to make sure that the waste pipe from the toilet can come down through the studwall and then turn 90 degrees above the foundation wall to exit. Depending on which way your floor joists run, it will either come out between the floor joists or will have to make another 90 degree bend to avoid running into a joist. While it is possible to header off a joist if needed, I'd try to avoid this in a bathroom if there is a tile floor; it only takes a little flexing to crack tile. Making holes in floor joists for water supply pipes is no big thing but it's not something you want to do for a great big waste pipe. If you have the space to do it the simplest solution might be to fur out the wall behind to allow the waste pipe to exit straight down and bypass the foundation wall.

 

If you really want the functions of a bidet I believe you can get a special toilet seat that does most of this. I've used them in Japan and they work well, though I'm not sure if they adapt to all toilets. A buddy of mine in Germany actually had a urinal installed in his condo when it was built. It wasn't a standard feature IIRC but he made the sale contingent on this, a very sensible idea.

 

[rp2813]

I actually have photographs of this bathroom addition when it was under construction in the mid-60's.  The joists are running in a favorable direction.  Although the house is two stories, this particular addition is a single story, and as a result there's a decent chance the framing was done with 2x4's.  I can't find any pictures of the framing to confirm one way or the other.

 

From what I can tell, it appears that there will be room for the waste pipe to make the turn above the foundation, but it strikes me that if the framing was done with 2x4's I will likely need to fur out the wall since I don't think the waste pipe can be concealed behind it otherwise.  I don't know how complex that job would be.

 

Regardless of whether I go with a wall mount or floor mount, the new configuration requires the waste pipe to be relocated diagonally across the room from where it is now.  Considering this, configuring it for a wall mount may not significantly add to the cost.  The additional carpentry work to accommodate a wall mount may not make a big difference in the cost of the entire remodel either.  I'll find out when I start taking bids.