Why did Maytag eliminate the Dependable Care Line?

[k1rod]

I believe these were amongst the best laundry appliances ever designed.  Their elegance was in their simplicity.  They were ultra durable, inexpensive and easy to work on.  They were the machines that made the Maytag repairman "Old Lonely".  They were almost universally respected as the "bullet proof" machine.  If you had something like that going for you company, why would you ever piss it away?

 

[combo52]

Why did the Helical Drive- Dependable Care Washers disappear

This could be a long discussion and I hope that others ofter their take on this. MT started to phase out the HD DC [ helical drive - dependable care ] machines in favor of the Norge and Amana designs for several reasons.

 

One they were cheaper to build.

 

Two they performed much better than the HD DC machines almost all ways, consumers liked the new MTs much better.

 

Three MTs conservative right wing anti-union management was tiring to cut costs by moving production to non-union factories.

 

And MT actually never stopped making the HD DC washers, they did not go out of production till MT sold out to WP. I believe they would have stayed in production for many more years for the older mom and pop dealers and for the Commercial side as they knew that the ATs and HTs were inferior in durability.

 

[k1rod]

I'm kind of new to this so please excuse my ignorance. What was the difference between the Helical Drive models and the (Norge/Amana) designs? Was this when MT went to the orbital transmission? You mentioned that the Norge/Amana design performed much better than the HD but apparently was not as durable. What ways did the new (or copied) design perform better?

What were some of the HD/DC machines that MT manufactured right up until being bought out by WP?

Thanks for any insight you can provide!

 

[kenmore71]

At the end, the Dependable Care machines that came out of the Newton IA plant all had model numbers that began with the prefix "LAT". In the repair and parts industry these machines are known as "Newton" platform Maytags. With the exception of the major transmission re-design in 1988, these machines were largely unchanged from 1957 until 2006.

The Performa & Atlantis lines are usually referred to as "Herrin/Norge" platform machines. The majority of these machines had the model prefix of "MAV" or "PAV"

 

[supersuds]

Not Maytag management's doing...

...although they screwed up plenty of things, this wasn't one of them.

The Dependable Care machines were in production until after the Whirlpool takeover of Maytag. It simply didn't make sense for Whirlpool to have more than one design of toploader in production when the average consumer didn't know the difference and didn't care.

 

[foraloysius]

LAT

The last model wasn't an LAT but an LAV, an LAV3600 to be precise. Here is a picture of it saved from the Maytag website.

 

[jerrod6]

So Maytag eliminated the line because they were bought by Whirlpool.....who eliminated it so that they could use their same design on Maytag .......buy a Maytag brand  and get a Whirlpool........buy a Kitchen Aid brand and get a Whirlpool because consumers are idiots.

 

[k1rod]

So Maytag eliminated the line because they were bought by Whirlpool.....who eliminated it so that they could use their same design on Maytag .......buy a Maytag brand and get a Whirlpool........buy a Kitchen Aid brand and get a Whirlpool because consumers are idiots.

 

If I was in charge of Whirlpool (they never offered me that job ),  I would have said, "Yes it does make sense to only build machines to one design.  But the Maytag Dependable Care design is clearly the superior design.  And now we own it!   And from shortly thereafter, all the Whirlpool badged machines would have been Dependable Care machines rather than the other way around.  They owned arguably the best, most respected washing machine design on the planet and summarily executed it!  Naw, we don't want to build these anymore.  The Whirlpool executives that made this decision must have been former US congressmen...

 

 

 

[kenmore71]

Well it was a superior design in some respects. The drawbacks to it from a production and sales standpoint were considerable.
1. The DC machines were being made in a union shop. I don't think the WP machines were.
2. The design uses quite a lot of steel and aluminum and is heavy! That's an expense issue for materials, labor and shipping. It also raises the final price tag.
3. The DC design was pretty much maxed out capacity-wise at 19 gallons without a major redesign which also means a major factory retooling. The WP machines had larger tubs (22-ish IIRC) which was a selling point.
4. The WP machine is MUCH easier to do major service on in the field. The motor and pump can be changed by laying the machine on its side. The entire drivetrain can be removed from the same position in another 10 minutes. Once that is out you have access to the spin clutch/brake.

So, as has been mentioned here, the quality across the whole "Maytag" line actually went up when the Herrin/Norge machines were pulled from the line and everything that said "Maytag" was actually a DD WP machine.

That said, I LOVE the DC machines. Between the my personal collection, the condo bldg I manage and the machines on the family farm I "oversee" 4 DC Maytags, 1 DD WP, 1 BD Kenmore, and 2 Herrin/Norge Maytags. I will only perform the most rudimentary of service on the Herrin/Norge Machines. When they have major issues they will be replaced with refurbished DC machines. One of the biggest service issues with the late model DC Maytags was the tub bearing/seal redesign. The last design was not nearly as robust as the earlier ones and that is often what fails first.

 

[k1rod]

Wow lots to learn here. Thanks Mark for the latest.   My experience is mostly empirical.  I grew up in a family of 9 (back in the 60's-80's)  that was brutally hard on washing machines.  It seemed WP or Frigidaire's would last about 5 years where as the Maytags under that same harsh conditions would last about 15-20 years.  We also didn't own enough machines to really be be statistically significant.  When did Maytag change the tub bearing design?  Could a machine be retrofitted to the older design?  I also still don't really understand what the Helix drive is but suspect it was what went out when the orbital transmission came in?  Thanks again for all the insight.

 

[DADoES]

 
Helical refers specifically and only to the transmission drive shaft under the base, which has a spiral (helix) cut in it on which the drive pulley rides down on the shaft for agitation (tub brake set, the shaft turns the transmission interior gears for agitation) or up on the shaft for spin (tub brake released, the transmission exterior housing + basket lock and rotate together).

The orbital and non-orbital (aka pitman or Newton) transmissions are *both* helical-drive.  Orbital refers to a different internal gearing design for converting the motor's rotation to agitator oscillation.

 

[combo52]

Why did the Helical Drive Washers disappear?

While the DC washers were very reliable machines and good overall there time had passed. And while WP did technically kill the MT DC washers that MT had been trying to do so for over ten years. If MTs management had improved and redesigned the Helical washer it could have remained a viable washer a lot longer. WP very correctly did not consider keeping the DC machine a day longer than necessary to do an orderly shut down of the factory after they took control of MT.

 

Yes the DC washer was a very good machine overall and had the longest run of any US washer design in history, almost 60 years. But it was never a top performer in capacity, cleaning, linting, rinsing, sand disposal, water extraction and it was the last TL automatic washer built in the US that didn't have self-leveling rear legs and still had an antiquated off - balance switch that could cause the user to make two extra trips back to the basement for each load of wash.

 

The MT DC washer was a little like a 1955-7 Chevy, a 1960s Dodge Dart or a Volvo 240, all very reliable cars in there day but it would make absolutely no scene to be building any of these cars today.

 

Hi Mark, WPs factories are all completely unionized in this country. In fact most major appliance plants in the US are unionized. The problem for MT was as you are automating an older plant it is hard to get rid of older employes and that leaves them with older less productive employees. Unions are great over all when the industry is growing and this is where MT went so wrong buy buying Norge and Amana instead of reinvesting in their own factories like WP did when they came out with the DD and the Calypso.

 

[arbilab]

Thanks for the explanation of 'helical'. I knew what the word meant but not in terms of washer drivetrains.

 

[k1rod]

Awesome John! You nailed it! But please allow me a little different perspective. You said " The MT DC washer was a little like a 1955-7 Chevy, a 1960s Dodge Dart or a Volvo 240, all very reliable cars in there day but it would make absolutely no scene to be building any of these cars today. <span style="color: #000000;">"   I can't think of a better group of examples.  You have listed some of the most awesome and cherished feats of mechanical engineering I can think of.  I hope to someday have a 57' Chevy Bel Air because it was elegant in it's simplicity, durability and style.  You could stand in that engine bay while you were changing the spark plugs!  The Volvo 240, 740, 940 all used one of the most well built, durable designed engines ever built.  The 4 cylinder freewheeling engine was often known to go 500k miles if you took proper care of it.  If you neglected to change the timing belt and it broke, no problem, you simply coasted to a stop and needed a new timing belt.  With modern interference engines,  when this happens, your pistons smack right into your valves requiring a complete rebuild of your head (Maybe $4000 dollars versus $250).  And the Dodge Dart (I'm assuming you are talking about the venerable "slant 6" was just like the Volvo!  Provided you didn't drop a screw down the distributor and break the plastic distributor gear,  You couldn't kill these engines with a baseball bat!   They would run forever.  You see, this is exactly what I am looking for in a manufactured product.  I want simplicity, reliability and durability.  I don't care if it has all the bells and whistles.  I don't care if it is the most efficient on a surface level. (And many people don't have the ability to incorporate 2nd order effects such as the energy costs involved in producing an entire second machine to replace the first one because the first one only lasted half as long into their calculations).  And I am not the only one.  There is a huge market (not as big as mass market for sure), that wants exactly this and is willing to pay for it!  </span>

 

[volvoguy87]

Hang on a minute!!!!!

Having both Maytags and a Volvo 240 in my current stable (and for may years in the past as well) I can say that they can certainly perform in today's world. Classic MT washers were never top performers in anything other than durability, but how many folks need top performance at all times in all categories? I don't roll in mud every day and my clothes aren't caked with grime. I consider this to be normal laundry for me and in that case, the MT performs just fine when loaded properly.

If Volvo still made the 240, I'd buy one without so much as a test drive. I've restored the suspension on my '87 (the engine and transmission run like Swiss watches) and nothing else drives like it. Unlike more modern cars, I have great viability and small blind spots. The handling is great. It will never compete in a slalom, but it's rock-stable on the road and handles every curve I dare throw at it. It's underpowered, but I'm not competing in a drag race. Once I get up to speed, I can drive all day with confidence, economy, and comfort.

Being in the appliance parts biz, I can compare the MT Dependable Care washers to the WP Direct Drives (their closest competition). The DC is easy to service, provided that service consists of replacing the belts. The MT will stand up to FAR more abuse than the WP, one of the reasons why so many property managers like the MT as opposed to the WP. The WP is generally easier to service, but it's likely to need service more frequently. The WP has a larger capacity, but no matter what the capacity is, people will overload them. I also see many WPs with worn out and broken suspension springs. I don't see that in the MT washers.

If I were to buy a washer for the home and knew how to use it properly, I might consider the WP Direct Drive. If it's a washer I'd be putting in a laundromat or a communal laundry facility, I'd go with the MT. The MT might go down for a day or two occasionally, but the WP would go down more often, but be quicker to fix. (How many service calls would you like to run? One big one, or several small ones?)

If there was a superior product today, I'd buy it.
Dave

 

[launderess]

The Gambling Ring Says

Or rather Consumer Reports:

Maytag vs Whirlpool

For 1985:

Maytag A170 - Gave better than average results in all cycles for both hot water and overall water efficency (Regular, Permanent-press). Excellent eletricity usage.Worse than average on unbalanced loads. Average water extraction, freedom from lint and sand disposal. Excellent for noise and brand repair history.

Whirlpool LA5800XM - Matched Maytag in cycle results as above. Average in electricity use but handled unbalanced loads better than Maytag (CR gave it a better than average rating), tub capacity was also rated the same. Water extraction was less than average (one notch below Maytag's). Freedom from lint was better than average however sand disposal and noise were just average. Brand frequency of repair was rated "good" but Maytag again was excellent.

Maytag (A712) again was CR's top choice in 1986 with Whirlpool (LA9800XM) coming in second.

Indeed in every buying guide one has from 1984 through 1987, Maytag was the number one rated washing machine by CR.

Just a bit of information. Do with it what you will.

 

[tolivac]

Not washer related-but has to do with the car motors discussed above-remember a wood chipper being used by a contactor in the neighborhood-It had a Chrysler slant six engine as its motor--The contractors fed the 8 in thick tree trunk into that chipper-it ate it without stalling!Now THATS a motor!!!The chipper owners mentioned it was the same slant six used in the older Chrysler cars.

 

[combo52]

CRs Washer Tests

Hi Laundress thanks for looking up those tests, I was mainly comparing MTs DC washers to the newer Norgetags and Amanatags that MT was trying to replace the DC machines with, also the two CR tests you listed of WP models were still both BD machines, things changed quite a bit by 1990 when the WP built DD machines were more reliable in CRs surveys.

 

[CheertoAll]

We miss the Maytag Dep Care

The MT DPC motor burned out in late 2010. It was mom's and she asked me to replace it. I bought the MT Centennial TL with bells and whistles; but all it did was shred our clothes.

I replaced it a few months ago with the Maytag Bravo XL TOL and steam dryer. So far so good, but without the rebates I received these would not be worth the trouble. Wish I had replaced the motor in the MT DPC. It was the best washer ever.