1-Phase, 2--Phase, 3-Phase...

Automatic Washer - The world's coolest Washing Machines, Dryers and Dishwashers

Help Support :

pulsator

pulsator

Well-known member
Bronze Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2002
Messages
2,374
Location
Saint Joseph, MI
Ok, there is a 50/50 chance that I wll be gettin a Wasomat double loader soon, the laundromat decided to get new machines and they have many Wascomats just sittin there. I have talked to my dad about it and I think I have almost everything figured out.
-Cement for bolt-down (check)
-Plumbing for drain pipe (check)
-Enough Skills to fix it up (hopefully check)
Now the only issue is electricity, I am guessing that it is 220volts, which I have. Next to our dryer is a 220volts plug for an electric dryer, but my question is, is it a 3-phase machine? What does that mean? Can I plug it into an electric dryer outlet?
 
You can gain a better understanding of two and three phase power by reading the link. You may also wish to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-phase_electric_power.

The electrical requirements for Wascomat washers are usually on the serial number plate inside the door. Failing this just get the model number and to to Wascomat's website and serch for the model in question.

Though no expert on electrics, am pretty sure three and two phase power must come in from the street, and are not something one can "rewire" a single phase outlet, even though it is 220v. There are such beasts as phase converters, but do not know how they would fit your situation.

IIRC many, many coin up washers are two or three phase power as motors designed to run on such power are "non-stalling" and very efficient.

Could have made a muddle of this, but no doubt better heads than mine on the matter will chime in.

Best of luck with your new find!

Launderess

http://www.du.edu/~jcalvert/tech/threeph.htm
 
I'm not aware of anything called "two-phase" power. Most residences only have single phase 110 and 220 power. Most businesses have that, plus three phase 220. They can also have three phase in higher voltages and wiring configurations.

Whether or not you can get three phase service to your home depends on the wiring on your street. You may also be charged different, perhaps higher, rates for it. Additionally, there would be a charge to have the service run to your home, and of course you'd want an electrician to extend that to a suitable circuit breaker panel and from there to an outlet.

I would suggest asking the laundromat owner if the machines are single phase or three phase. If they are single phase, ask how many amps they require on the circuit.

Phase converters come in different flavors. From my reading it appears that the most versatile are the mechanical rotary converters, which use 110 volt motor to start a 220 volt three phase motor spinning. The 220 volt three phase motor is wired up to the single phase 220 circuit. Once it gets going, the third leg of the three phase motor will output the third leg of three phase power, and then a three phase piece of equipment can be run off the three legs of the three phase motor. I've seen a home-built version of this; it was definitely not OSHA-approved but it worked as long as the power capability of the ciruit and driven motor was not exceeded by the equipment being run (in this case, a big metal lathe).

You can buy rotory phase converters, they seem to start at around $500 and go up for more power.

You can also get solid state phase converters, but from what I gather they are more finicky and their output must be more closely matched to the equipment being driven.

So it would be easiest if the washer you purchase can run on single phase 220.

Incidentally, those double load Wascomats don't seem to be much bigger than any of the large 110 volt front loaders on the market today, such as the GE, the Duet, etc. If you don't have the right power for the Wascomat it might be cheaper to get a new residential type washer instead.
 
One phase
regular 110v (one hot and one neutral)

Two phase
Nnot really ever called that- think of it as *regular* US 220v (two hots and a neutral)

Three phase-
Three hots and a neutral (red, black and blue are the hots)

One and "two" phase service tends to be 110/220v
Three phase (delta and WYE configs) tend to be 110/208v.
[Square roots and factors. TMI, I just gloss right over it. LOL].

Three-phase service is relatively rare in the US in residences and usually is only found in properties and homes that are located near commercial/industial settings which DO use this type of power.

Wascomats are available in many voltages/phases. Perhaps you can get one that is suitable to what you have available.

Best of luck, let us know how this dream-machine works out.
How will you be handling the gravity drain situation?


http://www.wascomat.net/landing.jsp;jsessionid=alm4e2mNW5X_
 
Residential 220V in North America is technically still single phase. It's not correct to refer to it as "two phase", although I can understand the tendency. But even though the two hot leads in a single phase 220V circuit are 180 degrees out of phase with each other, the resultant circuit by using both is a single phase with a peak twice that of the two contributing wires.

Three phase is best for running motors. In fact, its inventor, Nicholas Tesla, tried to get his bosses to use it for all residential wiring. A three phase motor doesn't need a starting circuit/capacitor to get going, and is inherently more efficient than a single phase motor.

I understand that the more exotic types of three phase - such as the delta/Y, 430 volts, etc, are useful because of the lower amperages needed for an equivalent amount of power, as well as lending themselves to being transformed into a number of different types of circuits - such as three phase 220, single phase 220, and single phase 110. At least that's what I've picked up from badgeing company electricians over the years... lol...
 
I have also heard that one *mighT* be able to grease the skids, so to speak, in ocnvincing a power company to run 3 phase to one's home by sating that one is getting an electric on-demand water heater.

That is, if 3 phase is already on the nearest utility pole.

I'm out of luck on that one... from looking at the poles on my block, the nearest 3 phase is a long block away...
 
WISCONSIN ELECTRIC POWER COMPANY

First Revised Sheet No. 21M.P.S.C. No. 2 –

Electric Cancels Original Sheet No. 21(Implement Retail Access)

CLASS OF SERVICE: RESIDENTIAL SERVICE – RATES Rg 1, Rg 1-C AND Rg 2EFFECTIVE IN ALL AREAS SERVED IN MICHIGAN CONDITIONS OF DELIVERY

1.The company will generally furnish single-phase, 60 hertz service at 120/240 volts. Single or three-phase service at 240 volts will be furnished in accordance with the Electric Service Rules and Regulations of the company.

2.In any established three-phase, four-wire area, the company may furnish 60-hertz, alternating current service at 120/208 volts. Single-phase loads will be served from three-wire circuits (two phases and neutral) and three-phase loads from four-wire circuits (three phases and neutral).

3.When single phase 120/240 volt service is furnished through one meter, and single or three-phase 240 volt service through another, each installation shall be regarded as a separate service under this rate.

4.Service for a barn or private garage may be furnished through the associated residence meter or through a separate meter. In the latter case, it shall be treated as service to a separate residence. A private garage is defined as one used in connection with a residence and housing not in excess of four cars, or housing more than four cars if all cars are used in connection with the residence of a single residential customer.

5.In multi-unit dwellings in which each dwelling unit is separately metered, service to each such unit shall be furnished under the residential rate. Service to the janitor’s quarters, excluding service for the public portions of such dwelling, shall be furnished under the residential rate if separately metered. A dwelling unit is defined as any room or group of rooms used for cooking and sleeping purposes.

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach...df+Michigan+power+three+phase+residence&hl=en
 
On-Demand Water Heating (Tankless) & 3-Phase

Hmmm. I have an electric tankless water heater. The unit is rated at 120 amps. My house has 300 amp service. I'm not aware that it's 3-phase, but I wasn't involved in the construction. Perhaps I should ask the electric provider.
 
DIN DING DING DING- sounds like a regular one-phase install.

Three-phase would have multiples of three elements.

Tied-in in this way:
=================
1- blk & red
2- blk & blue
3- red & blue
 
Checking for three-phase service.

-Perhaps I should ask the electric provider.
DIY, man!

One main breaker?
110v. you had might as well torch the house yourself.

Two main breakers?
Average 110/220v service

Three main breakers?
JACKPOT 110/208 v three-phase power
 
No clue.

Can't really see if your main breaker is a double or triple.

Some of the 220's seem to be double slots with ONE handle.
are there any breakers taking up THREE slots?

Also, read the sheet on the back of the door. It will tell you if it (the whole panel box [a/k/a consumer unit=> UK])is rated for three-phases.
 
If not, is there a way to convert it to 1-phase?
(where it = the washer, I assume)

There is ALWAYS a way to do everything. Is it practical and cost-effective to do it is another question.

In a word, think heavily "NO"

a motor-generator- MAY be less expensive than a phase converter. I can't intelligently say.

(220v in / three-phase out.)
(2 hots & neutral in /three hots & neutral out)
 
Local code may not allow 3-phase power in residences.

Pulling 3-phase from the street is expensive. The power company will charge you to pull the wire, you will have to pay for a new meter,you need an electrician to install the new circuit box and connections, the city inspector will have to approve the install.

If the washers in question are not single phase, wait until you can find some. Contact local commercial distributors to see if they have any used stock. You will probably have to be persistant, because if you are no in the business, they will blow you off. Subscribe to the CLA Journal, as they have an extensive "for sale" section in the back of the magazine for people selling used commercial equipment.

http://www.coinlaundry.org/journalmagazine/journal.html
 
oh Jamie.

A main panel
a sub-panel
and a junciton box/relay box

are not 1,2,3 phases. OY VEY!

Read also your electric meter It should say.

If your electrical service is above-ground, count the cables in the drip-loop. (They loop down so water doesn't follow the wires). The neutral from the house will be connected to the metal anchor-wire that most-likely terminates on a ceramic
(brown)insulator near or on the house.

I hope some of this helps and is not confusing the issue for you

Four wires is three phase
Three wire is regular 110/220v US service.
Two wires (which you will not see on a newer house-- and by that I mean post 1940) means you need an upgrade YESTERDAY)
 
Hi Pulsator,
If I were you, and the Wascomat was free or cheap, grab it and worry about the details later. A laundromat in Boston was getting new machines and I walked in on a whim and asked what they were doing with the old Dexters. (there were 5) I was told that they were waiting for a disposal company to haul them away. Needless to say I have one working, one spare, and a boatload of parts. The electrical issue is nothing a good electrician can't solve. You should inquire about them quickly. You may be doing them a favor by taking them off their hands, and they are a ton of fun to rebuild, and you could possibly make some money on any other ones you could get. Keep us posted. Bobby in Boston
 
Three phase-Where to begin-the place where I work is fed with 4160V 3Ph 1600A--monster feed.Then a set of transformers steps the 4160 down to 208-120V for running the building.The 4160 runs the transmitters.3 phase feeds come in two types-"Y" and Delta"Y is the most common.208-120V,480V-277 are the most commonly used.I used to live in an apartment building that was fed with 208-120.3 phase.The 3 phase ran building equipment-and the 208V ran HVAC systems in the apartments.The apartments and systems were balanced on the phases.With the 208-120 you can do this-you get 120 v from phase to neutral or ground.You can tell what type is feeding your building by looking for the power company meter panel feeding the building-this usually has the information like"this premises fed with 208-120V 4 wire three phase"Most single homes are fed with 240-120V power.this is NOT 3 phase.You could feed the 220-240V into a rotary converter(Phasemaster,Kay)come to mind and get 3 phase.the converter WILL NOT step up or down the voltage-you need a separate transformer for this.I have seen an FM transmitter run from a Phasemaster.Many transmitter sites are in areas very remote-and no three phase feed there.Also this was common on farms in the west and midwest-in fact early Sears and Wards farm catalogs had phase converters.3 phase is the way power is derived-the power company generators are 3 phase devices.I do know of one freind of mine who worked at the same plant I am at now who has a machine shop in his own home-a milling machine and a lathe-both ahve 3 phase motors-he runs them from a rotary converter.This could be the answer for someone who gets a commercial laundry equipment that needs three phase.You just need to get the right size converter-and is your power feed large enough?Of course the best answer is to get a mchine that can run from your supply.I don't know what the horsepower of the motors in the mill or lathe my freind has.In the case of breaker boxes-they often tell you what the panel is wired for.
 
Thelsa was obviously taken more seriously in Europe

3 Phase power in europe is quite commonly installed in residential services in Europe (except in the UK and Ireland). Many heavy domestic appliances can be wired for 3-phase power e.g. ovens, hobs(cooktops), water heaters etc.

In Ireland it's generally only installed if you have an absolutely huge house, a large home workshop or use electric heating.

In general, in urban areas here 3-phase is always available. 4 wire distribution systems are always used and homes taking single phase just take 1 of the hots + the neutral. A 3-phase service takes all 3 hots + neutral.

European 3-phase is 400V 50Hz ... Single phase (phase to neutral) is 230V 50Hz

There were certainly plenty of 3-phase Mieles around in the past.

Note: Europe harmonised voltages. Previously 220/380V (All of Europe, including Ireland) and 240/415V (UK)... Harmonised to 230/400V.
 

Similar threads

S
Both my Speed Queen units stop working I don't know what I'm missing or doing wrong - Please help.
Replies
17
Views
871
pierreandreply4
pierreandreply4
M
Miele T1 Dryer Drum Volumes and Options... Advice from T1 Owners Please
Replies
8
Views
1K
henene4
H
Ultramatic
Appliances: The Future is Battery Powered
2 3
Replies
83
Views
1K
tolivac
T
H
DE606 "HOH" shut-off solenoid the book calls it
Replies
14
Views
196
hank_raster
H
J
1940's Kenmore Model?
Replies
2
Views
46
golittlesport
golittlesport

Latest posts

Back
Top