1929 Frigidaire

[spin-it]

I have to say I have never worked with SD refrigerant, all the units I dealt with were R12 and expansion valves, from the early 50's. I have worked with high side floats on a limited basis, if the float is stuck closed it will not admit liquid to the evap and it will "pump down" and cycle on the low press. control. If it is open it will admit too much liquid to the evap and could flood liquid to the compressor, not good and quite noisy.
I remember old A&P stores with a whole row of belt drives lining the basement back wall, usually water cooled, one compressor for one, maybe two display cases. R12 was a great refrigerant used for medium temp or freeser temps. Those were the days! I have no photos but would love to see any that other members may have.
Beautiful vintage refrigerators by the way.

 

[cfz2882]

belt drive compressor

a local cafe still runs it's belt drive compressor for the
walk-in cooler;the cooler was put in in 1940 and is insulated
with cork.The motor is fairbanks-morse and the condenser is
air cooled with a single fan on the motor pulley(i have seen
larger ones with a belt running to a 2nd fan)
only part not original on the cooler is the evaporator as the
original had to be replaced because of corrosion.
BTW i did take a few pics of the compressor-if i can find them
i will try to get them up.

 

[lhafvens]

Need Advice on similar Frigidaire Refrigerator

Hello! I'm so grateful to have found this post here and am wondering if there is anyone who could help me identify the date/model of this refrigerator and any advice for restoring it. I bought it from the family of the original owner but I don't believe it works, and based on what I've read here I'm concerned about safety issues. The outside is really pristine! Have not been able to find anyone locally (Washington D.C. area) who knows anything about restoring them or is even willing to touch it. Thinking that the best and safest thing might be to replace the refrigeration system. I intend to use it, am restoring a kitchen in a 1917 row house. Appreciate any help, advice or suggestions you might have! Many thanks.

 

[volvoguy87]

Don't get ahead of yourself just yet.

The refrigeration system might be just fine. My 1939 GE's system certainly shows no loss of performance or efficiency. With the refrigeration system, I'd leave it alone if possible. Replacing or modifying the refrigeration system would be expensive and likely wouldn't result in any improvements in performance or reliability.

In order to make your refrigerator safe, you may want to replace the cord. I'd also likely connect a ground wire. In order to make it a well performing and efficient machine, you may need to replace the door gasket. Door gasket material can be purchased from www.antiqueappliances.com.

Old refrigerators, such as this, tend to be simple and very reliable. Most mechanical problems have to do with the thermostat and compressor starting mechanism (relay or similar). Surprisingly, really old refrigerators, like this one, are also pretty energy efficient.

Best of luck,
Dave

http://store.antiqueappliances.com/Door-Gaskets_c_8.html

 

[swestoyz]

I'm no expert , but here is my experience

The original compressor is more than likely a belt-drive unit, very similar to my 1936 Frigidaire.  The refrigerant type was SO2 in the mid-30's, not sure what stuff would have been factory for '27, but it certainly wouldn't be very safe (either Ammonia or SO2) to expose in a contained area, i.e. inside the house. 

 

These systems aren't sealed in the sense that the GE Monitor tops or later GM Frigidaire Meter-Miser compressors were.  There is an actual separate compressor that looks very similar to a pneumatic air compressor pump, with a motor driving the pump via a belt.  The shaft seals can leak over time, and/or the head gasket, etc. 

 

The chances of the original system being intact with refrigerant are probably pretty slim, but I would be quite cautious plugging this old girl in just in case it still is charged up.  If you are not comfortable working with these unknowns, I would suggest continuing the search of finding someone who is and has an extensive background with refrigeration equipment.  Unfortunately, most folks in the industry these days haven't seen a belt driven pump before.

 

Ben

 

[travis]

That's a 1930-32 Frigidaire

That's a nice looking fridge.  If it's original, it's an so2 unit and belt driven.  These belt driven compressors rely on refrigeration oil to lubricate and help seal the shaft seal.  What happens is the seal dries out, the so2 starts to leak.  The leaking so2 contacts moisture in the air and creates rust and further destroys the seal.

 

When I have found a refrigerator like this, the compressor pulley is usually frozen solid.  You don't want to play with these in your house until you know it's ok.  If you have to break the pulley free with your hand or a mallet, you better be ready to turn on the motor and back away.  There may be a charge left.  The shaft seal may seal itself in operation.

 

I got a 1935 Kelvinator last week.  I saw the belt drive unit and figured I had a hunk of scrap.  I was shocked when I turned it on to find that it runs and cools just fine.  That was a first for me, in a dozen purchases.  It's possible to use R12 in most of these.  You can compensate for refrigerant differences by changing the motor pulley.

 

If the belt drive compressor leaks, you can have a refrigeration man install a new compressor but keep the original evaporator.

 

[norgeway]

SO2

Is a GOOD refrigerant but is a nasty smelling one, it can kill pets, especially birds, and will cause all exposed metal it comes in contact with to rust, in a sealed system like a Monitor Top you probably will never have a problem, in this I would have a old time refrigeration man check it out before I used it...its not going to kill you, but its also not a nice experience..trust me, you wont stay around it long if it leaks!!

 

[kb0nes]

First off, Hello Lauri! And a big welcome to AW!! That is a neat old beast you have there and it looks to be in nice shape.

Personally I would not run that unit if it had Sulfer Dioxide refrigerant inside my home. At the vintage of that machine, especially if it sat long, the compressor shaft seal would be quite suspect.

Up thread (Reply #33) is a post from my brother John. Back about 1980 he and I and another brother Jeff found one of these at a DC estate sale. After purchasing the unit we moved it out back and while checking it out Jeff turned over the compressor pulley to see if it were free. The unit immediately started to leak the pungent SO2 refrigerant. We knew it was unsafe to load it into the van and drive home with it. We cracked a fitting and left it there for the night and went back the next day. Even with the little exposure we got to the refrigerant that day we all developed a cough and minor respiratory issues for a day or so. SO2 is NASTY stuff. The Ivy on the garage wall at the home of the estate was burned by the vented refrigerant also!

After we got it home I remember pulling out the condensing unit and cleaning and painting it. I think we were sure that the original compressor would never be used again, especially for SO2. I remember in the pre-Internet days trying to find a little info about a shaft seal and Freon swap. Perhaps today in the information age it might be easier to find a part to sub but this could require a full compressor rebuild, a machinist and lots of crossed fingers.

Eventually Jeff soldered copper tubing to hidden surfaces of the original evaporator and used a modern (in 1980) R12 compressor/condensing unit to provide cooling. The condensing unit was installed remotely in the room behind where the refrigerator was placed in John's West Virginia cabin. It was an awesome resto-mod since the unit appeared to be fully stock. The original compressor could be switched on so as to hear it run also. The unit ran for many years in place, but I believe that John has since sold it.

Perhaps you could end up doing something similar with your unit if you were so motivated. John and Jeff both do active appliance service in the DC area, you may want to try making contact. Look up Alco Appliance in Beltsville and Jeff's Appliance in Adelphi. I'm sure that just about any other service company would all but hang up on a unit this far out of warranty There is something satisfying about seeing one live on!

 

[norgeway]

RE SO2

I forgot about plants...it will KILL ANY vegetation it hits better than roundup!!

 

[norgeway]

Story about SO2

My Grandparents got electricity in 1938 and were the first on the street to have a refrigerator, it was an Apex believe it or not, sometime during ww2 it leaked and ran them all out of the house, when it was fixed it went OUTSIDE on the back poarch!!!! it leaked again in 1950 and a new big Westinghouse replaced it IN the kitchen, our next door neighbor got a Norge in 1940 that lasted until 62 and was replaced by a Coldspot, Bertha and Raymond, the neighbors in the 3rd house got a Frigidaire in 39....its still running in her great neices basement with out any repairs...NOT ONE SERVICE CALL!!!!Frigidaire by this time had Freon and the Meter Miser Compressor!

 

[volvoguy87]

SO2

In a sealed system, Sulfur Dioxide is okay. My '39 GE is SO2 and is running just fine.

It may be possible to convert from SO2 to something a little more common, like R134a, but I've never done it. Bear in mind that appliances of this era were designed to be repaired, rebuilt, and serviced. The compressor can be rebuilt, seals can be replaced, even he electrical contacts can be serviced in many instances.

SO2 is indeed nasty. If contained, it's fine, but if it leaks, you'll know it! Many refrigeration leaks are caused by user error (defrosting the freezer with an ice pick, for example). Even with a compressor oil change, some contemporary refrigerant, and some new seals, the original equipment may still provide fine service.

Dave

 

[travis]

Dave,

What you say about replacing seals is true in theory. The problem is that the original manufacturer is gone on these. Finding a suitable seal for a compressor is much more critical than replacing a seal on a washer or dishwasher.

I had asked Mike Arnold about converting one of these to 134a. He felt that I would never be able to get all of the old oil out of the system to do that.

I assume my Kelvinator uses so2, but it could be R12. I won't let any of it out and stick my nose down there to find out. Just a tiny amount will run you out of the room. I agree though that this fear of so2 is overblown. Don't defrost with a sharp object and it will stay inside where it belongs!

 

[goatfarmer]

Yeah, that SO2 is some nasty smelling stuff, once you get a whiff, you won't forget it!

 

[turbokinetic]

I realize this is a very old thread; but I want to place this info here since it may help someone else. It is possible to modify these compressors to use the shaft seal from a modern General Motors automotive air conditioner compressor.

I recently restored a WP-6 with a similar compressor. To fix the shaft seal, I turned the compressor shaft down to the same size as the automotive compressor shaft; and then turned the automotive compressor housing down to make an adapter to put the new seal in.

 

[cuffs054]

Wow, nicely done!

 

[turbokinetic]

Hey cuffs054 thanks for the compliment. I want to post a thread about the whole Frigidaire restoration but this forum isn't letting me post a new thread. I'm sure it's my laptop; or I'm doing something wrong.

 

[cuffs054]

Turbo, keep trying. Would love to see updates.

 

[turbokinetic]

cuffs054, I was able to start a thread here which I think you've found

.

 

Just dropping the link here so that people who search and find this thread may follow through to mine as well. There is so little info out here on these units, I want to be sure the info is found.

 

http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?76361_25~1
 

Also, I wonder if the original poster ever got his part for his Frigidaire?