1968 Frigidiare Custom Imperial (Restoration)

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Phil, does this mean that what I have ordered will not work?  I don't have the top side of the machine opened to get a picture of the top bearing because it doesn't seem to be the problem.  I'll have to see how things are up top after I complete the bottom end work.

 

Ben, thanks for checking into that man, you've gone out of your way to be helpful to me.  Thank you!

 

Mark, I remember those days too!  I have no fear of any Frigidaire now but I will say that pulsator nuts and water bellows never seem to be my friend!
 
Another thought

If I can't locate something that works I got the notion this afternoon that I could replace the inner workings of the bearing with good parts from a new bearing that is within a few mm of the proper size.  I can't imagine it would be that huge of a difference in the ball/holder size versus the inner bore size.
 
I wish I had better news.  I bought a digital caliper today to measure both the NOS 7524183 bearing and the shaft in the transmission.

 

In terms of the bearing, I got pretty much the same measurements as Phil.  There's no need for me to tear apart the spare transmission at this point.

<ul>
<li>Outer Diameter - 46.97MM (47MM or 1.8504 inches)</li>
<li>Width - 13.97MM (14MM or 0.552 inches)</li>
<li>Inner Diameter - 20.65MM (20.6375MM or 0.8125 inches or 13/16")</li>
</ul>
It seems GM used a 13/16" spin shaft and machined the bearing housing to standard metric specifications.  I suspect they couldn't go with the standard metric bore sizes of either 20MM or 22MM, as they had make sure the pulsator shaft bearing had enough material to be effective (not too small), as well as fitting into a fairly tight space in terms of the housing (not too big). 

 

My buddy at work took a look at the Bearing Interchange and mentioned that the ND 77504CJ had several bore sizes available, as well as the standard 20MM.  The CJ references the type of lubrication inside the bearing, <span lang="en-US"><span style="font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">MIL-G-23827 grease</span></span></span></span></span>.  He didn't respond back with the other sizes he saw in the interchange besides saying there wasn't a 22.64MM, but it wouldn't surprise me if one was indeed 13/16"/20.6375MM.

 

From the looking around I've done it seems that no one makes a 13/16" bore radial bearing.  If you step up to 7/8", there are a few out there that are slightly over-sized on the outer diameter, and short on the width. (Grainger 1L008, 7/8" x 47.625MM x 13.00MM).  But even then, you'd need to find a way to bush the shaft, and get the larger bearing into the housing.

 

There is a good chance that a bearing would need to be custom made, or maybe a shop out there can take the old one apart, clean it up, and reassemble it.  The problem is the shields are usually toast once you take them off.

 

Ben

swestoyz++2-22-2014-15-53-6.jpg
 
Ben, thanks so much for the updated information.  I'm committed to making this work somehow and I'm not above trying anything.  Just for the heck of it I'm going to see if I can transplant the innards of a 47X20mm into the casing of the original and see what I've got after reassembly.  I can't see that I've lost anything in trying.
 
Couldn't a machine shop machine the housing to take standard size bearing?

I had some custom machining done to make a Rollermatic transmission fit in a Multimatic machine a few years ago. Just used it last night. A 1960 Custom Imperial
 
Hey Rick, the problem is not the housing but rather the sizing on the inner bore.  Most bearings are standardized at 20mm, this one is 20.6.  That .6mm makes enough difference since the spin shaft has those threads on the end, that prevents you from pounding a bearing up over there because you would damage the threads.  I'm going to see how this bearing I have ordered works out and if necessary I'll rebuild the original bearing.  I've done some reading on the subject and feel that I'm savy enough to do so.  We'll see just how clever I can be ;)
 
Thoughts On Finding a Bearing To Fit Your washer

Hi Joe, I am sure that you have looked for a NOS Frigidaire bearing, but I would continue on that coerce it always seems that I can find mechanical parts for FD laundry appliances.

2nd thought couldn't you install the new bearing with the over-sized inner bore with some type of epoxy like material around the shaft to fill the gap ?

Ben you certainly did an impressive amount of research into looking for a replacement bearing, I wounder if my younger brother Phil whom works with a machinist would have any thoughts on how to solve this problem.
 
Good idea also John!  I never thought about an epoxy filler.  I seem to recall finding on some web search a bearing that had a 21mm inner bore with the standard 47mm outer.  I need to look for that again and maybe order it too.

 

UPDATE:  I did find one spec'd as a deep groove ball bearing (shielded) that was 47mm x 14mm x 21mm  for $10.  I ordered that too.  Something tells me that .4 mm will not make much of a difference, but since this is trial and error we shall see.
 
A bit late to the party here Joe, I was just talking to John and he just mentioned the thread to me.

I'm not sure I fully understand all you are dealing with so bear with me. From what I have gathered you have a possible replacement bearing that would work bit its inner bore is .0625" over your shaft diameter.

You could conceivably use some form of metal filled epoxy paste to build up the shaft, but the material would have to be machined after the epoxy kicks hard. I would think it would need to be machined to fit the bearing to insure there isn't excessive runout. If you just assembled with the epoxy soft and let the paste set up in place alignment may be off.

I would think that the easy/simple fix is to simply create a sleeve to resize the shaft. A piece of stainless bored to press fit onto the shaft, then machine the OD of the bushing to slip fit into the replacement bearing. Perhaps you could get a sleeve machined to just slip onto the shaft and fit the bearing without the need of sending the shaft to the shop. If you handle it in this manner it would make sense to size the sleeve to be a proper fit into the replacement bearing bore, then have the sleeve ID made to be a slip fit onto your shaft. A drop of Locktite 609 retaining compound will create an artificial friction fit without altering the OD of the sleeve, thereby eliminating the need to machine the outer diameter to size after the press fit.

There are a number of companies that sell stock shaft repair sleeves to give a new surface for a lip seal to bear against. I looked for a few minutes and was unable to find any that would work in your application with your dimensional constraints.
 
Phil,

The inner bore of the bearing is smaller than the shaft by 20 mm ID on the bearing vs 13/16" or 20.6375mm on the shaft...

 

Bearings with larger ID seem available but they are 22 mm or 22.23 mm (7/8") and not as common as those with 20mm ID.

 

I also thought about something like a Speedi-Sleeve held in place with Locktite 609 but I don't think they'd fit either as most are not wide enough and probably not the correct thickness anyway.

And 22mm ID bearings with the correct width and OD seem to be rare too.

Do you know if there's a way to machine a 20mm bearing to 20.63mm? If I understand well, the place in the UK in a link I sent above seems to do things like that. I emailed them last weekend but haven't heard from them yet...

 

Also, non-metric bearings with an ID of 13/16" don't seem to be very common either. I have searched for them but didn't find any. It's either 3/4" or 7/8"... Maybe that's the reason why GM used a metric bearing size for that application and they specified to have the ID slightly enlarged to 13/16".
 
Have a look at the bearing in this link. With the exception of the ID, the quoted dimensions match the new old stock bearing that was measured above. The seller lists the ID on his bearing as 25/32", which is essentially 12.5/16ths instead of the required 13/16ths, but that could be due to the way he way holding his calipers. I'd ask him to measure that again and see if he can come up with 13/16ths. The listed part number is 77504XIC.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-DEPARTU...=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item3cdced2e85
 
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Machining from 20mm to 13/16"

Phil

In theory opening up the 20mm center race .025" to .8125" shouldn't be all that difficult. Holding the bearing and stabilizing the inner race is the first hurdle. To do one bearing I think it would be easiest to just clamp it to a plate, indicate on the ID and Jig Bore to the new size. If one were to need a few made then a clamping fixture would made to hold them in the lathe to bore them.

The only fly in the ointment is if the inner race is very hard. Typically the races are induction hardened then ground to finish. If the material is too hard boring (especially in the Jig Bore) may be problematic. Even if they were really hard the ID could be Jig Ground to size but that is a slow process that isn't too common today, i.e. read pricey...

If possible I'd rather find a bearing with an over size ID that was usable otherwise and sleeve the shaft up in size but perhaps bearings in this size aren't common. Modifying the bearing is possible but it could risk contaminating the race so it would be my 2nd choice.
 
I also had considered a sleeve if it became necessary.  You all must have missed my post above where I talked about locating and ordering a bearing with a 21mm inner bore.  I sincerely don't believe that .4mm will make much of a difference in this case.  We'll see how it is when it arrives, that will be the real proof.  I think I'd come quicker rebuilding the original with good parts rather than having machine work done since I don't have ready access to those abilities.  You all tell me what you think, I'm enjoying this discussion!
 
Joe, My apologies,I did miss the part where you had ordered a 21mm ID bearing.

Indeed 21mm is a lot closer to the 13/16" shaft diameter, but still you are left with .014" clearance. As they say close only counts for dancing and hand grenades. While I don't have a perfect idea of how this assembly works or the loading, my hunch is that the loading is significant otherwise they wouldn't have used a hefty bearing like that. How much spacing is there between the upper and lower bearings? I'm curious as to how much angular shaft displacement the lower bearing play might cause.

It might be possible to fill the gap with something like Locktite 660 Quick Metal Retaining Compound. I'm not sure how you'd apply it as it probably doesn't wick like Locktite 609 does. The 609 product is rated for gap fill up to .2mm so it might work, at least for a while. The drawback for any of these adhesives is that you will effectively glue the bearing to the shaft, although the bond is easily broken by heating to about 400F.

Hope you find something to work. With these vintage machines and parts made of unobtanium, it may be helpful to let your fingers do the walking through Google and find a sympathetic local machine shop. They are out there!
 
I'm itching for that 21mm bearing to get here so I can try it.  I'm ready to get moving! 

 

Phil, I've taken a pretty exhaustive study of these machines and it's mechanism and I've come to the conclusion that while it would seem the bearing is really taking a bulk of the load I tend to believe that Frigidaire actually did a good job in engineering how weight would transfer through the different parts of the mechanism.  It seems to me from a physics standpoint that the tub (mechanism) support carries a great deal of the weight load, part of this load is distributed right down through the spin shaft which then ultimately transfers load through the mechanism brace into the snubber system.  I would imagine weight loads diminishing the further it traveled down through the mechanism, leaving the upper and lower bearings in the spin shaft to by and large provide stabilization of the spin shaft itself.

 

One thing I'm curious about that someone here might be able to answer is what kind of bearing is in the upper end?  I've never been any farther in top of one than to change a tub out.  I've drawn assumptions from schematics I've studied that is a bronze sleeve type bearing?  If anyone knows please tell us.  I want to use this thread to dispense as much information as possible for others to use in the future which is why I'm being so detailed with photos about everything I do that is common to many of us.
 

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