2018 Maytag vs. SQ

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LeeLee, what you need is a good front-loader, preferably with an on-board heater. Normally I'd recommend Miele, but their honeycomb drum means grit/sand extraction isn't too great, but it's much gentler on delicate fabrics than a normal drum. I'd look for a front-loading machine - possibly secondhand - with normal large holes, and lots of 'em. A commercial Speed Queen FL with a heater might be a good option, but the domestic ones (all now discontinued apart from the washer & dryer stack unit) all lack heaters, so as hot as you'll get is what's in your hot water line, and the machine has no way of keeping the water at that temp - which, in winter when it's started cold, is going to be a pain.
 
Joe (twintubdexter), you'd probably be horrified by my language in real life too... I just tend not to employ it here out of respect for our hosts and 99% of my fellow members!
 
Richard, not offended at all...

<span style="font-size: 14pt; color: #008000;">Not really horrified at all. I have a friend who lives in Scotland who has very colorful language. Fortunately (for me) his Scottish Brogue is so heavy (and very cool) I can't understand most of what he says. My next-door neighbor, a graduate of Holy Cross College in Boston who hangs with very influential people, talks like a longshoreman.  If I wanted to get horrified at something I'd complain that's it's currently 112 outside at 5:00 PM. Blah!</span>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[this post was last edited: 6/22/2018-23:37]
 
Well.... i put my money where my mouth is. I will keep the LG front loader, i'm undecided about the speed queen, seems to do an ok job, not as bad as people say, however it is very sensitive on overloading, if you go past the top row of holes forget it, the maytag might handel overloading better but as one member said their mother always said (if you need a corkscrew on your agitator its overloaded) i had a white towel that had cheddar powder from popcorn that didnt come out so i ran it through the lg with the same tide stain realease and oxiclean and the lg did not remove it eather, the dirt on the bottom of my socks the speed queen does as good as my LG, the speed queen really shines with towels, it really moves them around alot as long as its not overloaded, it fits alot actually. Im ok with it. As good as maytag in wash performance? No, but i bet it lasts longer. The speed queen does way better than my aunts kenmore/cabrio though, so i'd say its on par with the compitition not leading like it used to be.

infusor-2018062402355807505_1.jpg
 
Nice review, the SQ is on my list to replace my 15 year old Maytag. It fits into my required space and I like that you can control the water level. Should wash fine for my needs.
 
Infusor

Thanks! Bravo for biting the bullet and ACTUALLY finding out how the new TR machines perform, for yourself.
IMO, it seems like your experiences match up pretty well with Consumer Reports' results....the ones you oh so bashed to bits not too long ago.
 
Not really, it actually does pretty good if it is loaded correctly, i walk around my house with my socks on so i have alot of ground in dirt and it does a good job at removing the dirt, also had an old washcloth that had been use to clean grease and dirt up from a spot on my floor and it came clean, i was very surprised actually. I do like the machine. Im getting used to it, you just can't cram it full like the old model or my lg, but if you load it correctly, clothes actually spin around pretty good, the water surges around the pretty good,
 
Oh i fprgot to mention to 3verybody, the dealer i got my tr5 from said that speed queen WILL be selling front loaders again next year, he said the the government ordered all of their inventory for the military and navy, so the quota at alliance was already met for the whole year so they decided there was no need for the residential sales for this year, but the front loaders are indeed coming back next year.
 
☝️ that's exactly what i was thinking too. You would think they would want to make even more money by selling to residential customers too. Maybe they got maxed out on their production schedule and couldn't handle it. Seems weird to me.
 
Seems clothes get clean by detergents and action that causes the clothes to be rubbed against themselves and others over and over.(woo-hoo!)

The old Queen did this action well. The new Queen sloshes. No real rubbing. No real turnover. No tolerance for slight overloading. No ability to CLEAN A LARGE LOAD OF DIRTY CLOTHES IN LESS THAN 35 MINUTES like the old Queen always did.

Tolerate/praise/hope for the slosher Queen all you want. IT DON'T CLEAN and sure don't have speed.
 
Nothing can clean and rinse a large load of dirty clothes effectively in just 35 minutes. Not the old Speed Queen, not anything. You're expecting too much of a fundamentally primitive machine. That's why almost all industrial OPL machines are front-loaders with long cycles and powerful on-board heaters...
 
New SQ TL Washer Vs The Old Ones

This is is why SQ is still making the machines with the transmission, the older machine does a very good job washing most clothing loads in around 35 minutes.

 

We have built and used over 1/2 BILLION top load washers in this country over the last 70+ years and while they have their faults no  one has ever suggested Americans do not wear and have about the cleanest best smelling clothing that one will experience anywhere in the world.

 

John L.
 
... the f***?

How on earth does a FL have less wash action?

The main reason FLs need a little more time are:

a) Saturation takes a little longer.
b) Balancing is thing with a FL.
c) Most FLs at least rinse twice.

A TL that double rinses needs about 40min, lots of FLs take about the same.
A FL that tricks a little about (aka LG TurboWash) and thus only has to balance twice can do an average load in the same time a TL would.
 
here goes a caca-disturbing comment...

<span style="font-size: 14pt; color: #008000;">Some people like dogs and dislike cats. Some people don't like front-load washers (especially those like me with painful backs) and prefer top-load machines. There's plenty of room for both of these models to exist happily in America's homes. There's no need to defend front-loaders as if the people that own top-load washers are stupid. Like stainless steel they're nothing new. And as for them being "the choice" in Europe, most washers (if you're fortunate enough to have one) are found installed next to the toilet or the kitchen sink. "Compact" is a polite way to characterize them, "puny" is more accurate.</span>

twintubdexter-2018070414520402549_1.jpg
 
I didn't mean to imply that you can't get your clothes clean with either method, but a traditional U.S. top-loader can do it in less time due to it's use of brute force.

Yes, a front-loader needs more time. It also will benefit more from an internal heater since a front loader holds less water, and washes for a longer time.

Then there's the fact that most U.S. homes have a water heater that stores 30+ gallons of 140f+ water ready for use.

Front loaders rinse at least twice? Well they'd better, since they do each rinse with so much less water.

A Traditional U.S. top loader also rinses twice, first a spray rinse during the first spin, then a deep rinse.[this post was last edited: 7/4/2018-18:32]
 
It is only MODERN front loader that take more time. Early (up to the 80's)front loaders washed in the same amount of time as top loaders. Up to 15 to 20 minute wash on normal cycle, with rinses about 30 to 35 minutes to complete the cycle. They tumbled in one direction(not stopping every few turns to reverse which takes time) and didn't bother with balancing the load they just went into spin. When done the clothes were very clean and if loaded properly not too knotted into a rope( well not worse than Fridgidare).Jeb
 
Most front-loaders until recently used lots of water to rinse, but a single deep rinse after a spray in the spin is simply not enough. Even with two deep rinses, the SQs don't rinse that well. They're OK for lightly-soiled stuff, but if you need to really clean and sanitise properly dirty stuff, they're not up to the job.

The best front-loaders, other than the 1950s Bendixes, were always those of European manufacture (we'll ignore the fairly woeful Westinghouse designs). Find an old 1960s AEG or Miele, and you'll find a machine with vigorous reversing action (tumbling, soaking and dropping is far more effective than the gentle rollover of most top-loaders, pace Frigidaire), that fills with cold water, heats it internally to temperatures up to 95 celsius (Constructa, Bauknecht, Brocke and possibly others went up to a full 100 celsius boil-wash), and you generally get four or five deep rinses with loads of water. The wash portion of the cycle alone will be about 45 minutes to an hour, because that's what you need to sanitise effectively, killing dust mites, bacteria etc. The whole job will take about two hours.

The one agitator top-loader that sold well this side of the Atlantic was the Hotpoint 24" variant of the GE Filter-Flo design. Guess what? They had onboard heaters, spun at up to 1100rpm and would do a 95-celsius boil wash...
 
Rinsing

That a certain rinse sequence is the best is just plain wrong. Lots of factors play into different rinse considerations.

First and formost, while it seams illogical, water isn't the main ingredient in rinsing, extractions is.
Sure you can rinse well with dozens of gallons of water, but most modern washers can rinse remarkably well with verry little water.

The trick can be mathematicly explained:
Each rinse is a dilution phase. Lets say, at the end of a wash portion a fictional load of laundry contrains the amount 1 of water which has a detergent concentration of 1. So our overall amout of detergent in the laundry is 1 (concentration times amount).

Let's say the washer adds twice the amount of water the laundry holds. That would mean our 1 detergent is now diluted in 3 parts of water. Thus, the concentration drops to 1/3.
After the drain, our laundry still holds 1 water, with 1/3 detergent concentration, so 1/3 detergent total.

For the next repeat of that, that would be 1/9, then 1/27, then 1/81, then 1/243.

After an average final spin, let's say, about 1/4th of water remains in the load.
So after that spin, about 1/1000th of detergent stays in the load

So after 5 rinses, we have 1/243 of detergent left in the load of laundry.

Starting with the same 1 detergent concentration and 1 water after the wash, we now place an average spin before the first rinse.

Let's say out cotton load retains about athird of the water after an average spin.
So now, the amount of water in the load is 1/3 and the amount of detergent is 1/3 as well.

To resaturate the load, we need 2/3 of water and this time, the washer only adds 1 water for the rinse.
So a the end of the first rinse, we have 1/3 of detergent dissolved in 2 water, so a concentration of 1/6 and after the drain 1 water and 1/6 detergent in the load.

After the second interim spin, we have 1/3rd of 1/6, so 1/18 of detergent in the load.

After the next rinse, there is only 1/36 in the load, and after the spin, only 1/108.

Repeat the rinse, we are at 1/216.

With an equal final spin, at the end, there is 1/880 of detergent left in the load.

So I sacrifice 12% rinse performance, but I only use about half the water. Adding another rinse makes my rinse results far surperior while still using less water.

(These numbers are just wild guesses and are ment to drive a point home).

Thus a good rinsing sequence starts with proper extraction.
However, especially after hot washes or with certain clothing, too intense extraction can cause wrinkels or push dirt back into fibres.
It's impirtant as well that as little foam as possible is produced during extraction. Thus properly stepped spinning is verry important.

Actually, most Miele machines since the 70s or 80s already use a compromize: Their motor technology dosen't allow for propper stepped spinning. Thus, to keep suds production during the first interim spin down, they use 2 rinses before they spin for the first time. Then they follow that up with 2 more rinses and interim spins.

Spray rinses work best with thin, flat fibres. Thick, bushy fibres absorb a lot of water in the fibres themselfes and not between them.
Spray rinses can be imagined in the was that the spray away what is stuck between the fibres, but not what is stuck within them.
Fibres which keep a lot of water inside them need agitated rinses to work the detergent out of the fibres.

The amount of water needed also greatly varies.
Bigger water quantities do give better dilution and allow for quicker rinses as water can be worked through the laundry much faster.
As some fibres need lots of water working to release the detergent, some fibres need more water for proper rinsing by nature.
Some bulky items just need big quantities of water to allow for proper dilution action due to their size.
But many everyday fibres need verry little water to saturate them and to work them through properly.

So, for example, typical cotton flat weaved iteams like most underwear, most types of shirts, most socks can be pretty well rinsed with verry little water verry quickly and efficently.

More absorbent cotton like sweatwear, towels and more rugged items like jeans need proper extraction and a little more water with longer rinses.

Thin, flat synthetic items will rinse perfectly in verry little water with verry short rinsing times as plastic can't really absorb water.

Microfibre items however store huge amounts of water and release it only when pushed to do. So those need lots of water often with verry particular extraction.
 
what i have heard wensday

here what I have heard said by a service tech himself sometime its best to keep and have repaired the old set rather than buy a new set washers today are also like computers when they sense fill for the main wash they analyse in order to put the right amount of water compared to older machines that have a water level in term of top load from large to small washer model changes over the years and also before I forget if your in the market to buy a new washer you need to chose the one that fits your needs in term of cycle everyday use.
 
Extraction & rinsing

 

 

This is one reason why I really like my Kenmore He5t FL, it does full speed spins between the wash / rinses.  Granted I don't wash super grungy items on a regular basis, but it cleans everything really well.  

 

I have a MT Neptune 6500 and I need reconnect it and confirm, but I've got a strong hunch it doesn't spin (only drains) after the wash before filling for the first rinse.  I do know it spins after each rinse however.

 

I used to have an older "GE" compact TL washer (built by Hitachi) with a spinning impeller  at the bottom of the tub.  While it's a neat older washer, it would only drain & refill after the wash and first 2 rinses, the only time it spins is after the 3rd rinse.  I rarely used it because of this.

Kevin 
 
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