2018 Regulations

[suburbanmd]

Paulo, I'm glad you brought up the subsidies (tax credits) that the government has given to manufacturers for exceeding requirements. A few years ago I urged Consumer Reports to tell readers how the system works. Without going into the whole thing, I'll say that the Home Editor not only didn't know about the credits, but refused to believe me when I told him. Yes, the credits are a powerful force that's hard to resist, but consumers should know about them.

 

There are mandatory minimum standards for clothes washer energy and water use. Search for "clothes washers" in this document:

http://https//www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=86e70cbc87e5af18caca2e5c205bd107&mc=true&node=se10.3.430_132&rgn=div8

 

[DADoES]

"Dual-disc" Maytag vs. Calypso

 
I have both a Neptune TL ("dual-disc" Maytag) and a Calypso.  The Calypso has been my daily-driver for almost 9 years and I find it to be superior of the two in several respects.

Calypso rinses better.

There's no way for anything to come out of a Calypso without having been thoroughly doused with detergent & rinse solution and mechanically tossed

Neptune TLs are interesting for sure but have a trouble with being unable to consistently roll loads of light-weight fabrics and some types of bulky loads.  Of course the typical consumer would have no clue of this problem due to inability to see through the locking lid.  I've washed LARGE loads of typical cotton/synthetic casual "button-down" shirts that did not roll over even once through the entire wash period without my help.  I watched from the start and let it go through the full wash period to see if *maybe* it'd eventually roll ... but no.  The disc could not get sufficient grip on the load to roll it.  I restarted the cycle and helped it along.  Some loads may roll a few times then get "stuck" for some minutes and either not roll any further, or eventually start rolling again.  Two days ago I ran a small fleece/microfiber blanket and a black cotton t-shirt.  Warm water.  I didn't watch the load from start but I checked it toward end of the wash period.  The items were jiggling between the discs, not rolling at all, and there was a blob of undissolved STPP caught in the blanket. This would not have happened in the Calypso.

The Calypso has *never* gone off-balance during spin.  The Neptune TL often has trouble balancing/distributing.  It aborts after four tries on the before-rinse spins and does a long drain instead.  It refills and tumbles after four failed attempts on the final spin, does that twice if necessary, then beeps for help.  The final spin is limited to 500 RPM if the tub impacts the cabinet during any distribution attempt.  Terrible tangling of some types of loads impairs separation of the items during distribution attempts which contributes to balancing trouble.  The Calypso's center dome avoids this problem.

I have had items damaged in the Neptune TL.  Never in the Calypso.

Reference this video of a bulky-items load getting "stuck" in a Neptune TL (from 0:14 to 3:03).  I have seen instances of a load getting stuck after several rolls and not "breaking-free" to roll more.

 

[Chetlaham]

Perhaps your experience was good with Calypso- and yes these do rinse things thoroughly via recircualtion- but a lot of customers did not seem to like them. Perhaps it might have been service issues more than performance. The Maytag dual disk was a good idea IMO- but was not given enough time to mature. The discs do not reverse for one thing. Spacing needed to be tweaked more.

In truth I am sure both designs were not given the time to mature- but IMO if either one had been advanced, I think they would have done a much better job than today's impellers. Bouncing, tumbling and showering is much better than an impeller scratching a heap of fabric.

 

[foraloysius]

I've always been an advocate of H-axis toploaders. They work like frontloaders, but they load from the top. With so many new designs you would exepect that they at least would give an old design a try.

 

[Chetlaham]

Honest opinion...

I could be wrong, but here is my honest opinion based on facts: It would be much cheaper and much simpler for manufacturers to switch to front load only. Having only a few designs, perhaps one that covers a global market- is much cheaper and much simpler then having multiple very separate and very different designs (ie TL and FL). TL machines that are made to replicate FL will always be more complicated. And in general any top loader- even a deep fill- will always have more moving parts.

I know it sounds like I am knocking on top loads, but in truth with energy requirements becoming inevitable (look at Speed Queen), front loaders are highly preferred by manufactures. However that does not mean the market will go away if consumers demand them, but at the same time it would not surprise me if manufactures try and convert people over to FL in the coming decades.

 

[DADoES]

 
IMO much of the consumer dislike for Calypsos is inability to adapt to using them properly and misunderstanding about how they work.  I read reviews long ago on the now-gone Epinions from people who clearly had no clue, and have had a few discussions with people on other message boards.  One woman said her service tech told her that Calypsos reuse the wash water for rinsing.  That's silly and obviously wrong if one just *listens* to the water draining and filling frequently throughout the cycle.  Another said she often had items that were dry at end of the cycle.  I asked her to check some of the videos on YouTube and explain how that's possible with the constant recirculation shower and she couldn't explain it.

Reversing Neptune TL's tumble would involve more complex engineering.  They wash nicely when the load type is appropriate but are a dud on loads that don't work.

Love my Calypso.

 

[Chetlaham]

Reversing Neptune

Can't they just reverse direction of the motor? And employ a splutch with a separate shaft for the basket? I think Maytag was on to something but gave up to soon.

Also I am pleased to here you got the most out of your Calypso. Maybe it was user error after all.

 

[warmsecondrinse]

Neptune dual disc:

I see the issue. I can't help but wonder how that combination of disc design and water level made it into production.

Calypso: I've used one a number of times and have to admit my clothes come out clean and well-rinsed. Personally, I'd like the water level to be a bit higher... but that's just me.

User Opinions: I'm beginning to think that the largest single factor in how well a given machine does with the general public is how well it cleans when the consumer stuffs it with unsorted clothing and pushes random buttons. Over the years I've read A LOT of user reviews.

A strangely high percentage of the rave reviews have some comment about the reviewer being clueless and blindly following the the instructions that came with the machine.

An equally high percentage of negative reviews have the reviewer blaming the machine because his red wool sweater shrank and turned pink when washed with LCB in hot water... Or stuffing a combo with jeans and blaming the machine for ridiculous drying times.

In short, most positive and negative reviews seem more a reflection of the reviewer than of the machine. Go figure.

Jim

 

[DADoES]

Neptune TL reversing & Calypso water level

 
Neptune TL motor does reverse, for spin.  It uses a dual-shaft drive, with a sort of torque spring clutch that spins in one direction vs. releases in the other direction to rotate the discs.

Higher water level in the Calypso ... you're aware that the water level is always below the wash plate and the clothes are doused only by the recirculation spray (or the fresh water spray for some of the fills & rinses)?  Raising the water level above the wash plate would cause a huge amount of splashing.  Raising it higher but still below the wash plate would have no appreciable effect.  Probably 85% of the water usage per cycle is for rinsing.

 

[warmsecondrinse]

I was kind of curious as to how spin would work...

Lol, I know that at an intellectual level. It just looks like there isn't enough water... even though my clothes come out clean and well rinsed.