7 RINSES???!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
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jasonl
New member
NOT
3 spray rinses, 1 deep rinse, and 3 more spray rinses.
I don't know how many gallons but it's not what you think. I don't think any front loader ever did 7 rinses. Mine does 4 with extra rinse turned on.
3 spray rinses, 1 deep rinse, and 3 more spray rinses.
I don't know how many gallons but it's not what you think. I don't think any front loader ever did 7 rinses. Mine does 4 with extra rinse turned on.
laundromat
Well-known member
7 rinses
The Askos have seven rinses.
The Askos have seven rinses.
Huge Water consumption, although no Filter -Flo
My 70's Whirlpool does 4 spray rinses, a deep rinse, then 4 more spray rinses. On the "Extra Large" load setting, all in all. A total of about 65 gallons is used.
My 70's Whirlpool does 4 spray rinses, a deep rinse, then 4 more spray rinses. On the "Extra Large" load setting, all in all. A total of about 65 gallons is used.
65 Gallons of Water?
Try getting that past the Feds/California today! *LOL*
Try getting that past the Feds/California today! *LOL*
Designgeek
Well-known member
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- 865
Yow!
If I understand correctly: what's going on with a rinse is that detergent is diffusing from an area of high concentration (in the water trapped in the fabrics) to an area of lower concentration (the water introduced for rinsing). This happens pretty quickly with relatively little agitation.
Also having more water in one cycle doesn't make it go much faster, becuase as the concentration of detergent in the clothes decreases and in the water increases, each further degree of change will take longer than that which preceded it (think of an asymptotic curve), until you change the water in the container.
So the fastest rinse cycle is also the most efficient: horizontal agitation, add just enough water to have a little bit of surplus pooling in the machine, agitate briefly, then spin/extract at high speed, then repeat as needed.
If I understand correctly: what's going on with a rinse is that detergent is diffusing from an area of high concentration (in the water trapped in the fabrics) to an area of lower concentration (the water introduced for rinsing). This happens pretty quickly with relatively little agitation.
Also having more water in one cycle doesn't make it go much faster, becuase as the concentration of detergent in the clothes decreases and in the water increases, each further degree of change will take longer than that which preceded it (think of an asymptotic curve), until you change the water in the container.
So the fastest rinse cycle is also the most efficient: horizontal agitation, add just enough water to have a little bit of surplus pooling in the machine, agitate briefly, then spin/extract at high speed, then repeat as needed.
westytoploader
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Water hogs are good
Wow, 65 gallons, amazing, I never knew how much water my large-capacity BD Kenmore used until now!
From what I've read, the solid-tub machines of the 50's and 60's tended to be pretty water-efficient compared to their perforated tub counterparts. And with the overflow rinsing, nearly all of the soap was flushed out. Why don't they bring this effective design back? I'm not much of an efficiency person mainly because my machines, which aren't exactly water thrifty, do a good job, and machines that are water/energy efficient don't, IMHO. Even on the GE Portable, which has no first spin, the rinse is relatively suds-free. Same goes with the Maytag, DD Kenmore, BD Kenmore, etc...
And yes, when I used my aunt/uncle's Frigemore, there was a stronger scent of detergent than I was used to with a TL when I pulled the load out. Makes me wonder if that machine rinses effectively or not...
Wow, 65 gallons, amazing, I never knew how much water my large-capacity BD Kenmore used until now!
From what I've read, the solid-tub machines of the 50's and 60's tended to be pretty water-efficient compared to their perforated tub counterparts. And with the overflow rinsing, nearly all of the soap was flushed out. Why don't they bring this effective design back? I'm not much of an efficiency person mainly because my machines, which aren't exactly water thrifty, do a good job, and machines that are water/energy efficient don't, IMHO. Even on the GE Portable, which has no first spin, the rinse is relatively suds-free. Same goes with the Maytag, DD Kenmore, BD Kenmore, etc...
And yes, when I used my aunt/uncle's Frigemore, there was a stronger scent of detergent than I was used to with a TL when I pulled the load out. Makes me wonder if that machine rinses effectively or not...
I agree with you Austin!
Washers (both top and front loaders) simply rinse better with more water. What really annoys me nowadays about a lot of today's frontloaders is the fact that they claim to use 40 litres of water to wash and multiple rinse laundry. Matter of fact is, this simply isn't going to rinse the laundry! That's why all the time I use the "Sensitive" option on my AEG, which ups the rinse level to a 1/3 or 1/2 up the window (depending which rinse it is - they get deeper as the cycle moves on). And from this you see suds disappear almost instantly, whereas if I use the low water level rinses (and I sometimes do for sheets) the suds don't disappear until the 2nd rinse at the earliest. These deep rinses combined with up to 1600rpm interim spins make for greatly rinsed laundry. Whenever I do a load of laundry in the Bosch (which doesnt do deep rinses), I can most often always smell the detergent afterwards.
Unfortunately I haven't had much toploader experience so I can't comment on the rinsing results on them, but as it goes it seems that those people who have got rid of their old Tls over on That Home Site seem to be exaggerating about how their new washers rinse. Some even go to claim that they didn't have to use detergent for the first few loads they did because there was enough detergent residue left from their old toploader! Of course, I'm very skeptical about that claim...
Jon
Washers (both top and front loaders) simply rinse better with more water. What really annoys me nowadays about a lot of today's frontloaders is the fact that they claim to use 40 litres of water to wash and multiple rinse laundry. Matter of fact is, this simply isn't going to rinse the laundry! That's why all the time I use the "Sensitive" option on my AEG, which ups the rinse level to a 1/3 or 1/2 up the window (depending which rinse it is - they get deeper as the cycle moves on). And from this you see suds disappear almost instantly, whereas if I use the low water level rinses (and I sometimes do for sheets) the suds don't disappear until the 2nd rinse at the earliest. These deep rinses combined with up to 1600rpm interim spins make for greatly rinsed laundry. Whenever I do a load of laundry in the Bosch (which doesnt do deep rinses), I can most often always smell the detergent afterwards.
Unfortunately I haven't had much toploader experience so I can't comment on the rinsing results on them, but as it goes it seems that those people who have got rid of their old Tls over on That Home Site seem to be exaggerating about how their new washers rinse. Some even go to claim that they didn't have to use detergent for the first few loads they did because there was enough detergent residue left from their old toploader! Of course, I'm very skeptical about that claim...
Jon
hoovermatic
Well-known member
I used to have an Ariston FL and it used so little water that you would almost think there was none in the machine. It had no deep rinse facility and ran three rinses on all cycles. I used a regular detergent (Sainsbury's/Waitrose own brand) and NEVER had cause to re-rinse a load of laundry. I think something is wrong with your machine or the amount of detergent used. I NEVER use the recommended dosage as it is always way over the top, for obvious reasons. I rarely pretreat apart from the odd spray of Vanish and never have a problem.
They are using the word "rinse" quite loosely. The reason they say seven rinses is because the early Whirlpool and Kenmore had four spray rinses during the first two timer increments of the first spin cycle, one full deep rinse and two more spray rinses for the first increment of the final spin. The later machines with the two minute increment timer would have had 9 "rinses" total!
While its perfectly fine in the UK, us Americans wouldn't want to use Vanish for pre-treating stains on clothes. Vanish would probably eat through fabrics on this side of the pond! LOL
While its perfectly fine in the UK, us Americans wouldn't want to use Vanish for pre-treating stains on clothes. Vanish would probably eat through fabrics on this side of the pond! LOL
partscounterman
Member
Solid Tubs
I don't think we should go back to solid tubs. Can you imagine the sand nightmare I would have after washing beach towels and swimsuits? I'd have to shop-vac that sucker out every time!
I don't think we should go back to solid tubs. Can you imagine the sand nightmare I would have after washing beach towels and swimsuits? I'd have to shop-vac that sucker out every time!
Hoovermatic,
We have fairly hard water here, and I use a 1/4 scoop of fairy or 25ml of Persil non-bio liquigel, depending on what I'm washing. (I use Fairy powder for most things, and the Persil liquigel if I'm using the Handwash cycle). I never follow the recommended dosages either (they just want you to pour lots down the drain so you have to buy more). I just feel that rinsing needs to be done with water - and plenty of it. Trying to wash and rinse a load in just 39l is a joke IMHO.... I must use at least 39l PER rinse when I use the sensitive option
.
Take care,
Jon
PS - Robert - how do you get those smilies?
We have fairly hard water here, and I use a 1/4 scoop of fairy or 25ml of Persil non-bio liquigel, depending on what I'm washing. (I use Fairy powder for most things, and the Persil liquigel if I'm using the Handwash cycle). I never follow the recommended dosages either (they just want you to pour lots down the drain so you have to buy more). I just feel that rinsing needs to be done with water - and plenty of it. Trying to wash and rinse a load in just 39l is a joke IMHO.... I must use at least 39l PER rinse when I use the sensitive option
.Take care,
Jon
PS - Robert - how do you get those smilies?
On rinsing in front-loading washers: I think part of the reason we tend to see more suds in the final rinses of FL'ers is because there is so much raucous splashing/ vigorous water action. The waters of your average TL'er are fairly calm during agitation by comparison.
The softness of the water makes a big difference, too. I once ran 6 rinses with a big load of towels just to see when the last of the suds would disappear. I have mechanically softened water. After 6 deep rinses, there were still some (albeit weak) suds hanging in there.
I think the vintage orbital agitation Kelvinator/ABC-o-Matics would be the only machines to rival the water splashing of a FL'er. (Ok, you 60's GE/Frigidaire owners, begin posting now, LOL!)
The softness of the water makes a big difference, too. I once ran 6 rinses with a big load of towels just to see when the last of the suds would disappear. I have mechanically softened water. After 6 deep rinses, there were still some (albeit weak) suds hanging in there.
I think the vintage orbital agitation Kelvinator/ABC-o-Matics would be the only machines to rival the water splashing of a FL'er. (Ok, you 60's GE/Frigidaire owners, begin posting now, LOL!)
My two suds worth....
With my Neptune I have never had a problem with excess suds left in my clothes after the rinse cycle. I have taken the drain hose out of the stand pipe and placed it in the utility sink. Using regular Tide with a full load of wash, there was quite a bit suds that came out with the wash water. After the first rinse there were still suds present. After the second rinse, a faint trace, and after the third rinse there was not a trace of foam anywhere. I noticed that with the Neptune it seems they fill with a greater amount of water during the final rinse ( up to the bottom of the door, litteraly! ) then it does when it fills for the wash. It has a very pronounced "sloshy" sound during the rinse. More so then it does the in the wash cycle. Tnis may be why we notice a strong detergent smell after the cycle is complete. With so little water being used in the wash cycle and with a regular dose of detergent, it is being concentrated greatly. Well that was my two suds worth.
Christopher
With my Neptune I have never had a problem with excess suds left in my clothes after the rinse cycle. I have taken the drain hose out of the stand pipe and placed it in the utility sink. Using regular Tide with a full load of wash, there was quite a bit suds that came out with the wash water. After the first rinse there were still suds present. After the second rinse, a faint trace, and after the third rinse there was not a trace of foam anywhere. I noticed that with the Neptune it seems they fill with a greater amount of water during the final rinse ( up to the bottom of the door, litteraly! ) then it does when it fills for the wash. It has a very pronounced "sloshy" sound during the rinse. More so then it does the in the wash cycle. Tnis may be why we notice a strong detergent smell after the cycle is complete. With so little water being used in the wash cycle and with a regular dose of detergent, it is being concentrated greatly. Well that was my two suds worth.
Christopher
kirk280980
Well-known member
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- Feb 1, 2005
- Messages
- 172
Hi all,
Do agree that, generally speaking, the more water used for rinsing the better the end result is. I don't see any sense in sending gallons of water down the drain for no practical reason, but you do have to strike a balance between conservation and performance. Using enough water to get the job done to an acceptable degree is not wasteful IMHO.
The washer we have only gives a so-so rinse on the cottons cycle, despite my frugal use of detergent. On many occasions I have observed the recirculation pump running dry due to the tiny amount of water used being fully absorbed by a load of towels or suchlike. Only work-around I've found so far is to wash everything on the synthetics cycle, which has deep rinses, and then reset the controls again afterwards to get a fast spin. Something I really shouldn't have to do, but at least it's workable in the meantime while we still have the machine.
Regarding TLs, the Maytags, Speed Queens and Whirlpools I've used have all rinsed just fine, no complaints here. Personally I think it's all down to how the machine is used. Having seen people pour big globs of liquid detergent into a TL without measuring, I can very well understand why they later complain of soapy clothes! If they did the same with a FL the results would be similar, there's no magic involved here.
Do agree that, generally speaking, the more water used for rinsing the better the end result is. I don't see any sense in sending gallons of water down the drain for no practical reason, but you do have to strike a balance between conservation and performance. Using enough water to get the job done to an acceptable degree is not wasteful IMHO.
The washer we have only gives a so-so rinse on the cottons cycle, despite my frugal use of detergent. On many occasions I have observed the recirculation pump running dry due to the tiny amount of water used being fully absorbed by a load of towels or suchlike. Only work-around I've found so far is to wash everything on the synthetics cycle, which has deep rinses, and then reset the controls again afterwards to get a fast spin. Something I really shouldn't have to do, but at least it's workable in the meantime while we still have the machine.
Regarding TLs, the Maytags, Speed Queens and Whirlpools I've used have all rinsed just fine, no complaints here. Personally I think it's all down to how the machine is used. Having seen people pour big globs of liquid detergent into a TL without measuring, I can very well understand why they later complain of soapy clothes! If they did the same with a FL the results would be similar, there's no magic involved here.
I know a lady who has her Maytag Performa washer set for auto-second rinse always and told me for towels, she runs it through a complete cycle with detergent and 2nd rinse, then resets the washer for another complete cycle, sans detergent with 2nd rinse (now the 5th rinse, actually) before she feels they are rinsed properly. I don't know how much water the Maytag uses in a regular cycle, but six changes of water at 25 gallons per fill comes to well over 150 gal. including the spray rinses...
Now those are rinsed towels but to add a little irony to the decadence, she throws a couple of dryer sheets in with the load! Gets them perfectly free of all detergent residue, then smears perfumy schmeg all over them in the dryer...
Now those are rinsed towels but to add a little irony to the decadence, she throws a couple of dryer sheets in with the load! Gets them perfectly free of all detergent residue, then smears perfumy schmeg all over them in the dryer...
westytoploader
Well-known member
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- Sep 4, 2004
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I can understand a machine that guzzles water, but to do another cycle with a second rinse to rinse the towels out is a little much...
Designgeek
Well-known member
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- Dec 12, 2004
- Messages
- 865
Ahh, but the fun part of engineering is working right up to the limits.
Agreed about "too much detergent." I have no idea how the detergent producers manage to convince people to put in such enormous quantities per load, since the results are so self-evident ("hey Mom, Bobby just sprayed me with the hose and now my clothes are all full of suds!"). While suds can be fun, seems to me that lots of suds are just evidence of too much detergent in the load.
A few years ago I did a lengthy design project on hand-washing methods (okay, having said that I know I'm about to be dismissed as a masochist or a troglodyte!. I found that a plain flow-through rinse used enormous quantities of water before the suds were gone, but any kind of agitation with smaller quantities of water did a much better job, and was faster as well.
At present I'm looking to zero in on the weight and volume ratios between clothing and rinse water, and the agitation and spin times required to get an effective rinse. The other independent variable is ratio of detergent weight to clothing weight on the wash cycle.
What seems to be emerging so far is, horizontal axis agitated rinse with just enough water to allow some to pool in the container after the clothes are saturated. Followed by high speed vertical axis centrifuging, followed by one deep-water rinse and a final high speed vertical axis spin. Result is: no suds, hardly a bubble on the surface of the final rinse water (vertical axis agitation) and clothes come out clean with no detectable detergent smell. The final rinse water can then be used as wash water for the subsequent load, with the usual amount of detergent. I'm going to try a confirmation run with this week's wash, and then next week start figuring out the exact quantities of the inputs.
Agreed about "too much detergent." I have no idea how the detergent producers manage to convince people to put in such enormous quantities per load, since the results are so self-evident ("hey Mom, Bobby just sprayed me with the hose and now my clothes are all full of suds!"). While suds can be fun, seems to me that lots of suds are just evidence of too much detergent in the load.
A few years ago I did a lengthy design project on hand-washing methods (okay, having said that I know I'm about to be dismissed as a masochist or a troglodyte!
. I found that a plain flow-through rinse used enormous quantities of water before the suds were gone, but any kind of agitation with smaller quantities of water did a much better job, and was faster as well. At present I'm looking to zero in on the weight and volume ratios between clothing and rinse water, and the agitation and spin times required to get an effective rinse. The other independent variable is ratio of detergent weight to clothing weight on the wash cycle.
What seems to be emerging so far is, horizontal axis agitated rinse with just enough water to allow some to pool in the container after the clothes are saturated. Followed by high speed vertical axis centrifuging, followed by one deep-water rinse and a final high speed vertical axis spin. Result is: no suds, hardly a bubble on the surface of the final rinse water (vertical axis agitation) and clothes come out clean with no detectable detergent smell. The final rinse water can then be used as wash water for the subsequent load, with the usual amount of detergent. I'm going to try a confirmation run with this week's wash, and then next week start figuring out the exact quantities of the inputs.
The real test is how cloudy the water is not how sudsy.
I could be wrong, but I don't think the real test of rinsing comes from looking at the amount of suds in the sink during the drain cycle. Low sudsing detergent could still leave lots of residue in the clothes without suds in the sink.
Try this:
1. Wash a load of towels in the machine of your choice using the detergent of your choice.
2. Dry the towels.
3. Fill a new or very clean bucket with very clean water (run the tap a few minutes), take one of the towels and agitate it in the clean water.
4. Take a new clear jar and fill it with water from the bucket. How clear is this water in your jar?
5. Label the jar with the washer name and detergent name. Save it to compare it with other machines and detergents later.
6. Now wash and rinse the same towels in an automatic washer without any detergent. Check the final rinse water in a clear jar to make sure its clean.
7. Repeat using the same detergent in a different washer or same washer--different detergent. The real test is how cloudy the water is.
I could be wrong, but I don't think the real test of rinsing comes from looking at the amount of suds in the sink during the drain cycle. Low sudsing detergent could still leave lots of residue in the clothes without suds in the sink.
Try this:
1. Wash a load of towels in the machine of your choice using the detergent of your choice.
2. Dry the towels.
3. Fill a new or very clean bucket with very clean water (run the tap a few minutes), take one of the towels and agitate it in the clean water.
4. Take a new clear jar and fill it with water from the bucket. How clear is this water in your jar?
5. Label the jar with the washer name and detergent name. Save it to compare it with other machines and detergents later.
6. Now wash and rinse the same towels in an automatic washer without any detergent. Check the final rinse water in a clear jar to make sure its clean.
7. Repeat using the same detergent in a different washer or same washer--different detergent. The real test is how cloudy the water is.
