70's Lady Kenmore Agitator Removal

[flyingethan]

Good news! and bad news.

The good news is I got the agitator off today. Woo hoo! The bad new is that I have some serious rust issues.

After slowly pouring two pots of boiling water over the top of the agitator it finally busted loose. Thank you everyone for your advice.

Okay buddies, I need more of your advice. I found my leak. The basket has some rust but is still usable. The tub has some serious rust in two spots. Where the air dome attaches to the tub is rusted through making a small hole. The center of the tub where the centerpost tub seal goes is rusted badly enough to the point where it probably won't seal anymore. It looks like I tore up that center hole in the tub getting it out but I didn't. It came out looking that way. Both places were leaking. Oddly enough though the air dome hole never showed signs of leaking even though it is clearly rusted through.

The centerpost is rusted badly too. I took a wire brush to everything and still have good metal but it is so pitted that I don't know if I can achieve a seal. Please take a look at the pics and let me know if these things are salvageable.

I have a new centerpost tub seal and it fits snugly but I'm not sure if will be adequate. I've thought about having a buddy weld over the hole next to the air dome and then weld in a plate in the center of the tub to try and create a hole that might create a seal. I'm not sure it would work but I do NOT want to get rid of my washer.

Could I just silicone the crap out of the leaky areas along with using the new seal ( I have new screws with new seals for the tub too).

Is the outer centerpost part of the base? Or is the entire centerpost part of the transmission?

Anyways, does anyone have a basket, tub and/ or base (or transmission if that is what the outer centerpost is part of) that they would be willing to sell? I know it's a long shot but I will gladly pay a higher than normal price for them plus shipping. Plus I would gladly pay for the effort that it takes to package them up and mail them.

I've thought about taking my parts to the local used appliance stores and seeing if they might have some used replacements laying around that I could buy.

Alright, at least I know what I've got now.

Any suggestions are welcome.

 

[kenmoreguy64]

Wow Ethan....

You've got some work on your hands.

Starting with the basket....that rust hole is probably not a big deal but I would cover the area with POR-15 to try to stop any further deterioration --- on both sides of the tub center tube.

The centerpost has indeed lost a good bit of surface area. If you think it is still sufficiently strong as not to break, my solution would be to clean it thoroughly, paint it liberally with POR, then when dry, I would rub on a layer of two part epoxy and make sure it is flush with the rest of the centerpost. This will build you a new sealing surface. Just make sure it is smooth.

The tub...Boy, if these were still available, that tub would be a tosser for sure. Try to re-form the round edges of the centerpost area as your first step. POR-15 the entire area as a lot of porcelain is missing there. Once the sealing edges are straightened back out, try putting sealant on the new 383727 gasket, insert the gasket, then seat the tub in the machine before the sealant dries. Then, fill the area all around that mangled tub lip with two part epoxy. Believe it or not it has worked, well enough for my own use on a stricken machine. Not sure I'd want to warranty that to a customer but for me it has worked. You can use two part epoxy on the air dome hole as well.

I think I would paint the surface rush on the baseplate with POR-15 as well.

Like I said, you have your work cut out for you, but it's worth a shot!

Gordon

 

[arris]

CenterPost

For the centerpost you may want to look for a sheet metal/machine fabrication shop...I have one in my area that installed a new centerpost for my 75 LDA9800 WP.. here is a picture after the install... as far as the outer tub.. there was a place in Grand Junction CO that had many outer tubs.. you will need to take in inside dimensions and the height... I cannot remember the name of the place off the top of my head.. you could google appliance repair/parts in Grand Junction C.O. not sure if they would have an inner tub.. there is an appliance salvage in AZ to.. when I remember the name will send it. attached is my new centerpost... Jim

 

[arris]

CenterPost

The CenterPost is pressed in and is part of the baseplate..

 

[flyingethan]

Arris,

Did the machine shop make you a new centerpost, refinish the old one or just install one that you had into the base?

That sure is a pretty picture.

 

[arris]

Machine Shop

I bought 10ft of stainless tubing, the inside diameter was smaller than the original but the outside was the same. In order for the bearings to fit they had to mill some down on the inside. they measured the old one removed it, cut my stainless to the correct length and installed the new one. For the baseplate mine was in very good shape very little rust.. I sanded it, put a coat of primmer on, then painted it.. I think I,m gonna put a coat of Epoxy on it...
I had shoulder surgery for a torn Rotator cuff in December, and was not able to do much work on it.. but now I'm doing pretty good so gonna start putting it back together. before I do though I think I'm going to go to the machine shop with my outer tub and see if they could make a new one.. just for the heck of it.... before it goes back in the machine, figure all they can do is say NO.... Jim

 

[flyingethan]

Fantastic effort. I am going to see if I can replicate your efforts. Where there's a will there's a way.

If I can have a new post made and get a hold of a another tub I don't see why this washer can't last another 40 years.

Let the hunt begin.

What kind of business did you buy the stainless steel tube from?

 

[arris]

Stainless

I had the shop measure the old one and then they ordered the new one... I had to buy 10ft and still have most of it in the basement, I wanted to keep it so I could have another centerpost installed in a baseplate... good luck, keep everyone here posted on how you make out... Jim

 

[flyingethan]

KenmoreGuy64, is there a particular sealant that you would recommend if I was going to try and reuse the tub and basket?

 

[combo52]

Hi Ethan I am glad the boiling water suggestion worked. 

 

I would look for a good donor basket outer tub and base plate the rust is bad enough around the hole in the basket that that basket will break in the not-too-distant future. The rusted center post is also in danger of rusting through and Breaking.

 

If you want to try fixing the rusted center post we had good luck with buying thin wal stainless steel tubing then sanding the rust off the center post and slipping the stainless steel tubing over the rusty Center post and then welding it at the top and the bottom doing this is much easier than trying to replace the entire center post and you're much less likely to have problems with alignment.

 

The best type of sealant to use around holes in the outer tub is 100% silicone rubber RTV sealant it's easy to get and works very well.

 

[flyingethan]

Combo52. Great idea. I found a machine/ fabrication shop where I live that is willing to help me out. Your idea of slipping a thin wall tube over the post is a good idea.

I was thinking 100% silicone but I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't something else that is even better. I am thinking Permatex Blue is probably a good option.

I called Appliance Express in Glendale, AZ today and they have several of my washers sitting outside. They said that they would get into them tomorrow and send me pics of the parts that I need. I will be able to see if the ones they have are in better shape than mine or not. They said that the tubs, baskets and bases that they have might be in okay condition. We'll see tomorrow.

There's another place locally to me that thinks they can muster up some parts.

Also, I've seen a few similar models on Craigslist locally that might work. I just need some time to go check them out. Apparently there were many of those around here, Oklahoma City, not too long ago but they have started dwindling in recent years. My local appliance shops say they still get them from time to time.

 

[bendixmark]

sealant

You want to use clear non flowing silicone that blue stuff wont last.

 

[flyingethan]

Good to know about the silicone.

I have the machine completely apart. Appliance Express in Arizona is getting into the machines that they have outside to see if what they have is in better condition than what I have. They will let me know next week.

I am dropping off my base, and tub at the machine shop on Monday. They said that they can slide a new piece of thin wall stainless steel tubing over the existing center post and weld it to the base and the top of the center post thus sealing the rusty exterior of the existing center post. Hopefully this will prevent further rust while adding strength to the center post and provide a nice clean surface for the tub seal to slide over. I hope it works.

They also said that they might be able to fabricate a new center post hole for the tub out of a piece of steel and weld it either over the old hole or cut out the old hole and weld in a new piece. If they can do that than they will also be able to weld over the rust spot adjacent to the air dome. I am concerned that they won't be able to do it because of the porcelain coating in the tub. We'll see.

Now I have another question. How do you get the bleach tube off of the tub without breaking it? And, how to you get the lint filter off of the tub?

 

[combo52]

Great progress on a Leaky LKM Washer

The thin SS tube over the center-post works great, we have done it on four washers so far.

 

It is easy to remove the lint filter, you just unscrew the pot-metal ring on the inside of the outer-tub and the filter lifts off. I would replace the LF while you are doing all this work, the new filter comes with new mounting nut and gasket as well.

 

The bleach hose can be softened  [again] with boiling water or a heat gun and pushed in from the outside of the OT and cleaned and reinstalled with a good sealant.

 

[flyingethan]

I brought my base and tub to the machine shop today and they think that they can install a thin-walled stainless steel sleeve over the old center post and repair the holes in my tub. I'm excited and looking forward to seeing the finished product.

However, the rubber seal/ boot at the very top of the center post (I can't locate it on the parts diagram at Sears Parts Direct) will have to be pulled out because the heat of welding the new stainless steel sleeve will melt that seal/ boot.

How do you un-install that rubber seal/ boot on the top of the center post?

It looks like it's function is simply to keep water from entering the top of the center post between the center post and the gear case outer drive shaft.

Does it just pop in and out or do you need to use a special tool to "press" it in? The "center post upper drive bearing" (part # 54207) is metal so I am not worried about that being affected by the heat of welding. I just need to know how that rubber seal/ boot goes in because I will have to replace it if I can find another one or re-use the old one if I can get it out in one piece.

Any other rubber seals in the center post that I should be concerned about during the welding process?

Combo52, when you have had a SS tube installed over an existing center post did you have the top of the sleeve welded to the center post as well as the bottom or did you leave the top un-welded so as to not affect the rubber boot/seal at the top of the shaft?

On the tub, the center post hole is being cut out and replaced with a piece of steel flush welded in and the hole being cut into the new piece of steel. The machine shop is not sure if they can re-create the lip that is part of the original hole but they will try. If the tub center post hole does not have that flanged lip I am a little concerned that I may have a difficult time creating a good seal between the tub and the center post via the washer tub seal (part # 356934). At least it will be better than what I have now.

 

[flyingethan]

After further inspection of the parts diagram it looks like the seal/ boot that is in the top of the center post is actually called the "washer tub seal" (part # 356934). It looks like it just pushes in to the top of the center post.

Also, I can't tell if the seal at the bottom of the center post will be affected by heat of welding. It looks like that seal is just called a "seal" (part # 54209). I'll just have to wait and see if it is still good after my base gets fixed.

The seal between the center post and the tub is called a "washer door boot" (part # 96690). I actually already have a new one of those ready to be installed when the base and tub are done.

I'm excited about the possibility of actually being able to keep my washer in working condition. Fingers crossed.

 

[flyingethan]

Update! I just thought that I would share some of my progress with y'all.

I've posted a picture of what the rim of my tub looked like yesterday and what it looks like today. Those big holes are gone and the patched area looks fantastic. I'm very stoked.

I figured out answers to some of my own questions that I posted above. The washer tub seal that is in the top of the center post does just pop out. Putting in a new one won't be a problem. The bottom seal for the center post is the same way as far as I can tell.

My machine shop guy said that he can't find stainless steel tubing the correct size to weld on over my old center post. However, he has steel tubing that does fit. So, that's what I will do then I will coat it with POR15 when it's done.

I'll post more pics when the parts are finished being repaired.

 

[flyingethan]

Combo52,

Where did you buy your stainless steel tubing from? The machine shop that I am using can't find the correct size tubing in stainless steel.

 

[flyingethan]

Another question for everyone. Do you think it's a good idea to add/ change my gear case oil while I have the washer apart?

I've never noticed it leaking any oil. I see what looks like a drain plug on the the gear case. Looks like the natural place to drain and replace the oil.

 

[combo52]

Rebuilding A KM Washer

Hi Ethan, Great progress, You may want to change the oil but there may be several even important things that you should be doing if you want to possibly get upwards of another 20 years use out of this washer.

 

My Friend Smitty got us around 4 feet of the thin wall SS tubing from a supplier in NJ, I will talk to him shortly and see if he can figure out where it came from, I would like to get some more myself as I have at least another dozen BD WP-KM washers that I want to rebuild in the future as well as rebuilding some for other folks in the group. You would be much better off with SS tubing, the orignal center post was heavily plated to prevent rust, the problem with just painting it is if you get even a tiny gap in the paint it may rust pretty fast. The other way we have talked about preserving these old center posts was to cover them with a vinyl-plastic type sheath. My vacuum cleaner butty Jason has said that it might be possible to get heat shrink tubing large enough to cover a center post and shrink it in place over the center post old or new to protect it from water. I will ask him about this as well when I see him a little later.

 

There is no drain plug on the transmission for oil changing purposes, I can tell you how to check the oil quantity and quality so you can determine if it is really necessary.

 

If you send me an Email with your phone# and best time to call I can describe in much better detail, John L.