A Convoluted Tale of 210 ° arc-cuate washing

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Alliance named the Speed Queen tranny "Ever-Smooth 210".....they have one on display at our local Mom/Pop Appliance shop...mounted on a acrylic rack....you can't see inside, but you can turn the crank underneath to see the spin action or 210 degree arc.....

the new design still gives the 210 degree stroke, amazing too in such a small package, but it seems equal movement per stroke....

compared to the Q-matic in the solid tub which gave each stroke more revved up force....would like to figure a way to switch the agitators between the two, and willing to bet you would not get the same wash action...

willing to bet a heavier gauge metal was used in the solid stainless steel tubs, versus the perforated designs...it was a claim to fame for them at the time compared to porcelain, no rust, no snags, no chips, and no tears of clothing...actually got smoother with use....

MickeyD retrofitted a ST three vane agitator into his wringer machine, wonder what type of wash action he got out of that, especially with only 180 degree stroke....just curious
 
According to a FB response from SQ

they no longer have the "eversmooth" name attached to the tranny. In fact, the copyright for it expired 5/24/2003.

I think they need to come back with a name to differentiate from the run-of-the-mill competition these days.
 
that trademark may be expired, but it was just over a year ago when Chuck Melton referred to it in an email as we spoke.....who knows, it may become the "Quiet Glide" next...with emphasis on the "Q"....

the name may get changed, but the actual internals will be the same....

look how many names they gave the tranny from the solid tub years.....it was always the same tranny, just a new gimmick for the kiddies to promote!

although, when you get something tried and true, they should just promote longevity of a trusted well built product....but, does that sell machines anymore?
 
You're not wrong

I measured 185.8 on mine. Perhaps it is the "slop" in the agitator and the drive bell?

Who knows?

I think a chap on here put some black tape on his SQ and sho' nuff, it too was a shy of 210. And it was a classic SQ with fluid drive no less!

Jetcone has a vid somewhere with the arc-cuate torn down and it does look like there he has the 210 degree stroke.
 
Well...

The vintage machine that was recently torn down had a video made of it, and the agitation, at least when it leaves via the output shaft was certainly more than 180º - the videos of agitation show it too.

I thought the newer machines were supposed to have 210º agitation too, but perhaps there is some loss in the output, perhaps due to clutch slippage or something?

What I do know for sure is the 210º claim is a hotly contested subject here at AW.org!


 
210 Degree Arc ?

I am with Peter on this one, no one has ever shown a 210 DA at the agitator on ANY SQ TL washer, and there is no clutch that can slip in the agitator output drive.

The transmission in the current SQ TLers is basically the same unit that has been used since the perforated basket machines came out around 1980, there have been several improvements since that time in the construction of it. The current transmission is simple and well built, but is certainly not the most durable TL washer transmission ever.

I would rate TL AW transmission durability in this approximate order.

Best

Solid Tub SQs

Heavy Duty WP BD { HD transmissions were built 1964 and on ]

MT Helical Drive before the Orbital Transmissions

Franklin washers after the early 1970s

Current SQ TL washers

MT Orbital Transmissions

WP Direct Drive Transmissions

GE Filter Flow transmissions [ after 1961 ]

Westinghouse TL washers transmissions.

John L.
 
Well 210 or not,

and based on viewing Jetcone's numerous vids and extensive use of my new "old school" TL, laundry does indeed come clean. Only when I diss around with cheap detergent are wash results less than satisfactory. Use good detergent, no issues, laundry is clean.

For comparison sake, here's a vid link of my GE. Well not the exact model perhaps but the same agitator, tub, etc. Same clank and bang when it agitated. I questioned the durability with the plastic inner and outer tub along with 4 "bungee" type tub anchors but I got 14 years out of it nonetheless. And it washed well too so long as I did not jam too much in it. The SQ trumps it in terms of turnover when I wash 4 complete bath towel sets. No contest there. All other loads, I rate the cleaning ability about the same.

 
Well Peter and John may have a point`

The tranny sure enough is alt east 210 - the patent claims 220 and it can't do that without proof. That said, John, there is a clutch between the tranny and agitate shaft, its called a "jaw clutch" and it has some slop built into it. So its time for another vid test now that Willie is all back together and working again.

 

I'll see if I can rig up a system to see what the agitator is doing in the tub.  But it sure washes as good as my  Unimatic.

And John aren't you forgetting the Unimatic built like a tank tranny in that list of TL AW?

 

 
 
Reliability of Unimatic Transmissions

Yes I did leave this great transmission design out along with many others. I would rank it somewhere below the WP DD transmissions, because the UM like the WP DD transmissions incorporate the spinning function into the trans they are much more complicated and trouble prone, so while a really cool piece of engineering it certainly never set reliability records.

A bit of recent Whirlpool trivia, What is the MOST replaced part on WP DD washers built over the last 20 years Under Warranty ?

It is not lid switches, drive cuplings, water pumps, timers, inlet valves, or clutches, But rather TRANSMISSIONS by a large margin, this surprised me a little.

The two easy AWs to change transmissions in ever were the GE FFs and the WP DDs and we did LOTS of GE FFs and we still do LOTS of WP DDs. The current SQs even with a 15 year warranty on the trans will almost never get a trans change after about 5 years, it is just too labor intensive, owners will not generally put $500 into washer repairs on a machine that is over 5 years old.
 
I have to disagree

on the reliability with UM transmissions John, they were even used in coin-op machines. In all the UM I've worked on over 30 years the only repair I ever "HAD" to do was one unit had a broken oil pump spring. Nominally I just clean and change the oil they run another 20 years.

 

To my surprise the easiest transmission to change would have to be the 3 belt Speed Queen. Loosen the motor bolts, and drop 4 bolts and the whole thing is out in 2.2 seconds. Never seen one that easy before.

If you break the tub bolts on the GE that could easily be the end of that machine because you'll never get that tub support off the shaft with out breaking it apart and if the new tranny doesn't have one installed you are out of luck.
 
Jet, do you have a vid of this?

It's been hotly debated since I arrived here last year, perhaps even before. And a new SQ is still advertised at 210 degrees, but I put tape on mine during a normal and gentle cycle and I swear it is slightly beyond 180, perhaps close to 190. I don't have anything beyond the anacanaputican device to measure it though.

Any thoughts? This does need to be resolved.
1. Is your 57 a true 210?
2. Is my 2013 a true 210?

And if not, where and why? And can we solve it by taking what yours measures out to be add it to what mine measures out to be and divide by 2?

Wracking my brain on how to get to the bottom of this.................
 
This was bothering me too, because I thought for certain that my 2013 SQ only had a 180 degree arc, and maybe not even that. Turned out to be an optical illusion. I took a video with a high frame rate camera and put marks on the agitator. It definitely goes well beyond 180 degrees. Almost certainly 210, though I have not measured it exactly. So I will attest to the legitimacy of this claim, FWIW. I no longer have the video, but I could make another.
 
Yes rwindiana if you would please

I only have a Cannon Powershot that does not take good vids. Pics yes, but vids no. If you could put one up, I would be most grateful.
 
@washman

A previous Canon Powershot of ours actually featured a 60fps "action mode" when in the movie mode. This was the style with the rotary dial on the top for selecting your picture/manual mode :)
 
Marvelous!

I knew it, I just knew it all along. SQ comes through again!

Let us rejoice, mystery and debate settled once and for all!
 

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