perc-o-prince
Well-known member
And that should have been "deficiencies" and not "deficienies" in the first paragraph. Whoops.
a thought about what is fair and what is convenient
- Thread starter panthera
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I do not agree with most of what Rapunzel said about the difference between the private and public systems in Au, though I do agree with his/her scathing assessment of our current "Liberal" government.
The contrast of dirty, run down, second rate health care in public vs clean, modern, efficient private care - that is a myth created by the private health insurance industry to scare people into taking out private health cover. That is the main reason, in answer to PeteK's question to me above, that people choose to pay for private health cover - it is a triumph of misinformation over fact. The "Liberal" government is ideologically opposed to the medicare system and have been demonising it, underfunding it and amending tax law to bludgeon people into private health cover, then broadcasting how people are switching to private. Surprise surprise!
Fortunately the Aussie population are firmly attached to Medicare and the Libs know they can only wreck medicare so far before they will be thrown from office. Fortunately that time approaches soon...
My last visit to hospital was to a spotlessly clean, brand new ward at St Vincent's hospital in Melbourne. I has severed a tendon in my hand whilst fixing a washing machine.(which I still own...)I was admitted to emergency after a wait of about ten minutes, as it was not urgent. I spent about an hour in emergency, then went up to a two bed ward. I was operated on next morning to have my hand repaired. The facility was spotless and more like a hotel than a hospital. What I ordered for breakfast bore no resemblance to what arrived but it was delicious.
St Vincent's is run by the Sisters of Mercy, but the funding for their operations comes from a mix of Federal & State governments, plus public and religous donations. I was so pleased with my visit there, I donate to the Sisters of Mercy every year even though I am not religious.
A happy customer.
Anyone with an interest in this debate should watch Michael Moore's documentary, Sicko.
Chris.
The contrast of dirty, run down, second rate health care in public vs clean, modern, efficient private care - that is a myth created by the private health insurance industry to scare people into taking out private health cover. That is the main reason, in answer to PeteK's question to me above, that people choose to pay for private health cover - it is a triumph of misinformation over fact. The "Liberal" government is ideologically opposed to the medicare system and have been demonising it, underfunding it and amending tax law to bludgeon people into private health cover, then broadcasting how people are switching to private. Surprise surprise!
Fortunately the Aussie population are firmly attached to Medicare and the Libs know they can only wreck medicare so far before they will be thrown from office. Fortunately that time approaches soon...
My last visit to hospital was to a spotlessly clean, brand new ward at St Vincent's hospital in Melbourne. I has severed a tendon in my hand whilst fixing a washing machine.(which I still own...)I was admitted to emergency after a wait of about ten minutes, as it was not urgent. I spent about an hour in emergency, then went up to a two bed ward. I was operated on next morning to have my hand repaired. The facility was spotless and more like a hotel than a hospital. What I ordered for breakfast bore no resemblance to what arrived but it was delicious.
St Vincent's is run by the Sisters of Mercy, but the funding for their operations comes from a mix of Federal & State governments, plus public and religous donations. I was so pleased with my visit there, I donate to the Sisters of Mercy every year even though I am not religious.
A happy customer.
Anyone with an interest in this debate should watch Michael Moore's documentary, Sicko.
Chris.
The other reason people opt for private health insurance is that it can offer extras. You can select various levels of cover from most insurers, the higher levels offer cover for things that are not part of medicare, including dental, chiropractic, massage, and so on.
However Choice magazine has examined the issue many times over the years, and their conclusion is generally that the premiums are so high and cover so patchy and full of fine print, that you would be better off to invest the premium in a good bank account and save up to pay for your own private care, if you ever feel the need to buy more than medicare offers. This may well be different now that the tax system has been amended to encourage private health insurance. Of course if the government funds used to prop up the private health insurers had instead been invested in the medicare funded health system, then the whole community would benefit instead of a few greedy insurers. These tax incentives were introduced because the Australian population was deserting private health insurance in droves, itself a massive vote of confidence in Medicare.
Chris.
However Choice magazine has examined the issue many times over the years, and their conclusion is generally that the premiums are so high and cover so patchy and full of fine print, that you would be better off to invest the premium in a good bank account and save up to pay for your own private care, if you ever feel the need to buy more than medicare offers. This may well be different now that the tax system has been amended to encourage private health insurance. Of course if the government funds used to prop up the private health insurers had instead been invested in the medicare funded health system, then the whole community would benefit instead of a few greedy insurers. These tax incentives were introduced because the Australian population was deserting private health insurance in droves, itself a massive vote of confidence in Medicare.
Chris.
Chuck I can certainly sympathize for the loss of your aunt. But you can't blame a whole country or system. It sounds like she had an incompetant doctor, they do exist everywhere, here, in the US, in the UK. I can round off countless examples of where my family, friends and even myself have all received wonderful treatment. I have never known personally anyone who's opinion differs from mine. My own sister for example since birth with a heart defect has had numerous operations beginning at birth in 1950, stunts, shunts, pacemakers, replacement pacemakers over her 57 years when required and done remarkably well considering no one figured she'd ever live too long back then. Heart attacks, strokes, bypasses you name it and I know plenty of people who have been treated for those and all done well.
eek. I hope I didn't come off sounding snotty in my reply there Chuck, it certainly wasn't the intent
I should have added that while I said I don't know anyone personally who's opinion differs than mine certainly doesn't mean that our system is perfecto because it certainly is not. There are examples of misdiagnosis, poor response and yes even deaths etc in our hospitals that do get reported in the papers when they happen
I should have added that while I said I don't know anyone personally who's opinion differs than mine certainly doesn't mean that our system is perfecto because it certainly is not. There are examples of misdiagnosis, poor response and yes even deaths etc in our hospitals that do get reported in the papers when they happen
Medical errors happen every day, and in every hospital. I'm pretty sure that's what did my dad in. But then again, he was 84, and had recently completed a pretty horrific regime of both chemo and radiation, so who knows?
Speaking of dad, he was a "trial lawyer", as the reactionary political ads like to say, for an insurance company: He worked for Mutual of Omaha for 37 years. He was convinced that we needed to go to a national system, because the insurance and pharma companies were destroying the healthcare system. After the last year, dealing with Mom's lymphoma, I see the wisdom of his thoughts. If it hadn't been for medicare and the Mutual of Omaha health plan (which they no longer offer to retirees) she would probably be dead, and we would have had to sign the house over to pay for the bills.
Something's gotta give. As a nation, We pay the most for health insurance, but get the least results. And our life expectancy keeps shrinking. And it's killing our competiveness for business.
Speaking of dad, he was a "trial lawyer", as the reactionary political ads like to say, for an insurance company: He worked for Mutual of Omaha for 37 years. He was convinced that we needed to go to a national system, because the insurance and pharma companies were destroying the healthcare system. After the last year, dealing with Mom's lymphoma, I see the wisdom of his thoughts. If it hadn't been for medicare and the Mutual of Omaha health plan (which they no longer offer to retirees) she would probably be dead, and we would have had to sign the house over to pay for the bills.
Something's gotta give. As a nation, We pay the most for health insurance, but get the least results. And our life expectancy keeps shrinking. And it's killing our competiveness for business.
RE: the fear that government intervention would cap doctors' salaries. My Blue Cross-Blue Shield does that right now, as does my mom's Medicare. With my insurance, there is the fee that the doctor agrees to accept as a preferred provider which is less than if he or she were not a preferred provider, but being a PP is a great advantage in attracting patients. Unfortunately, you can really get hit with unexpected bills if you have surgery and the anesthesiologist or some other medical professional is not a preferred provider.
My mother has not had any service she needed denied to her because she is on Medicare and she does not have a co-pay. Fortunately, she also has a good supplemental insurance policy to pick up what Medicare does not.
"Sadly fear and greed are great human and corporate motivators..." Yet isn't it a shame that these forces are so frequently employed by those claiming to be on the side of "values" as if human life was of no concern except before birth and just before death when the values people will grandstand to the point of calling a special session of Congress to interfere in a tragic family situation.
Insurance companies have not historically been required to report their assetts. In the early 80s, in the really, really ugly early times of the emerging AIDS crisis, insurance companies claimed that they would go bankrupt if forced to cover the expenses of patients with AIDS. For many with AIDS, the best break they could hope for was to be in a teaching/research hospital where their care would be covered if they signed onto the program. Businesses with an employee with AIDS would either be forced to fire the employee or have one of two things happen: The premiums for each employee would sky rocket or the company's coverage would be canceled. Finally the insurance companies were forced to cover treatment and they did not go bankrupt.
There has to be a solution to the problem of access to affordable health care for all citizens of this country, but it will not come about while scare tactics dominate the disussion. Given the interests of the insurance & health care lobbies and their buying of legislators, the solution might be a long time coming.
My mother has not had any service she needed denied to her because she is on Medicare and she does not have a co-pay. Fortunately, she also has a good supplemental insurance policy to pick up what Medicare does not.
"Sadly fear and greed are great human and corporate motivators..." Yet isn't it a shame that these forces are so frequently employed by those claiming to be on the side of "values" as if human life was of no concern except before birth and just before death when the values people will grandstand to the point of calling a special session of Congress to interfere in a tragic family situation.
Insurance companies have not historically been required to report their assetts. In the early 80s, in the really, really ugly early times of the emerging AIDS crisis, insurance companies claimed that they would go bankrupt if forced to cover the expenses of patients with AIDS. For many with AIDS, the best break they could hope for was to be in a teaching/research hospital where their care would be covered if they signed onto the program. Businesses with an employee with AIDS would either be forced to fire the employee or have one of two things happen: The premiums for each employee would sky rocket or the company's coverage would be canceled. Finally the insurance companies were forced to cover treatment and they did not go bankrupt.
There has to be a solution to the problem of access to affordable health care for all citizens of this country, but it will not come about while scare tactics dominate the disussion. Given the interests of the insurance & health care lobbies and their buying of legislators, the solution might be a long time coming.
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