About cars... Am I THAT old?

[justjunque]

I've owned lots of cars. All different types.
Mostly inexpensive, mostly automatics.
I understood the mechanics of driving a manual transmission, but had very little if any real world experience with it.
For some reason, when I was around 21, I let myself be talked into buying a three year old Camaro IROC-Z with a five speed.
I had to learn pretty quickly, since it was my only car!
I guess I did okay, but I can't say that I enjoyed it.
And I always avoided having to start up on hills!
I thought I'd try to teach my then girlfriend how to drive it once. Once.
I think I went a few shades whiter when I said; "Okay...give it a little gas, and start to let out the clutch."
She had it up to about 6,000 RPM, and was about to let out the clutch.
Not especially wanting to launch through the front of the house at the end of the street, I said, as calmly as possible; "Okay...don't let out the clutch right now."
That was the end of the lesson. We always meant to try again some time, but it never happened.
Then, the car got stolen and destroyed. So that was the end of that.
Years later, and quite the contrast, I owned a late '70s Pinto with a four speed.
People love to hate on those cars, but I thought it was a fun little car.
I've driven a few other manual transmission cars, but those were the only two that I've owned.
And I've never driven a "three on the tree", although it's something I think I'd like to try some day.

Barry

 

[ea56]

My maternal grandma was born in 1900 and was one of the very first women in Kansas to drive a car. Her father owned a hotel in Sharon, Kansas, and he bought a Hupmobile in I believe around 1911, and he taught his daughter how to drive it. I’m fairly sure that the Hupmobile had a clutch. When my grandparents were married in 1919, grandpa had a Ford Model T, which is more like an automatic than a standard shift. The far left pedal was the gear selector, all the way to the floor was first gear, half way out was neutral and all the way out was second gear. Contrary to the You Tube link posted earlier, there was no clutch pedal as we know it in a Model T. The transmission had bands and planetary gears. Anyway, grandma mastered the Model T and she would load her four daughters into that Tin Lizzie and journey the 50 or so miles on the dirt roads of 1920’s rural Kansas, to visit her parents in Sharon, all by herself, without giving it a second thought.

Then in about 1933, grandpa got rid of their last Model T, and replaced it with a 1929 Chrysler, which had a 4 speed transmission with a clutch. Apparently, grandpa didn't trust that grandma would remember her earlier experience with her Dad’s Hupmoblie, so he took her out an a a training expedition, before he would turn her loose with the 29’ Chrysler. He had little patience and they got into an argument and grandma stopped driving that day, and never drove again. I always thought this was very sad for her, because she lost a little of her independence that day, she who had been a Suffragette.

Eddie
https://www.carstuffshow.com/blogs/starting-and-driving-a-ford-model-t.htm
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15142307/how-to-drive-a-ford-model-t/

https://www.fordmodelt.net/how-to-drive-ford-model-t.htm

 

[rp2813]

Barry,

 

Three on the tree is a lot like four on the floor, at least from the passenger's perspective when looking at the steering column.  The "H" pattern is the same. 

 

I've attached some pictures from the textbook Sportsmanlike Driving.  We actually used this 1940s book when I took driver education in high school back in 1971!  When I saw a copy in a thrift store for 50c many years ago, I bought it just for the illustrations. 

 

Thinking back, it seems that in my experience textbooks more than 20 years old were quite common from first grade all the way through 12th.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ea56]

I had this same book in HS Drivers Education class too Ralph. Back then it was common to use the same textbooks for many years, no new editions every year. We were required to always keep a brown paper cover on each of our textbooks, and during the last day of school every year we had book repair day, when we erased any pencil marks on the pages and mended any tears with glassine paper strips and paste, not scotch tape, because it yellowed. In fact, in Catholic School we had some textbooks from as far back as 1932, and I attended that school from 58’ thru 63’!

Eddie[this post was last edited: 7/2/2019-19:19]

 

[rp2813]

For sure Eddie.  The Catholic school I attended from first through third grades was built in 1924 and we still had the original three-on-the-skis wooden desks with holes for inkwells, a lot of the books were old, and we were taught the Palmer Method for cursive writing. 

 

From fourth through eighth grades, that Catholic school was built in 1951 and had newer stuff. 

 

Even public schools seemed to use the same ALM Spanish book for decades.  I hit Spanish class the first year that ALM published a completely new edition, and it was welcomed by all.

 

Here's a rendering that still holds true today:

 

 

 

 

[ea56]

Ralph,

my Catholic school was built in 1936, and we had those same desks too, screwed to the runners, seats that folded up and inkwells. The school was heated with steam heat and we had radiators in the classrooms. As you know steam heat is not very common in California, even then it was a rarity. Once, the boiler broke down and we received a call in the early morning that there was no school that day, because it was winter and too cold without the heat working.

The teachers desk also sat on a platform, about a foot higher than the rest of the hardwood floor. This way sister could gaze out on the sea of 52 students before her and keep an eye out for any Tomfoolery.

Todays kids heads would explode if they traveled back in time to the way we were “schooled”. It was the teachers that ruled the classroom, NOT the students OR the parents.

BTW, sorry to go so far off the track of the thread.

Eddie

 

[petek]

I learned a stick at 14 by "borrowing" my sisters bf's VW bug he'd left in my parents driveway, no one was home so I drove it around the block and didn't do too badly. It was some years later my first husband bought an old mid 60s Chev Biscayne or something with 3 on the tree and I managed to drive that a few times around New Westminster where we were living outside of Vancouver. I had a motorcycle so shifting wasn't too foreign. Somewhere in the next year or two, I'm forgetting, but after our "divorce" I had my bike and picked up an old mid 60s Fargo (dodge) shaggin wagin for rainy days. That was 3 on the tree as well. Couldn't kill that thing. Nextly I got myself a new demo 82 Volvo GL.. new hubby (and still current hubby) exclaims on seeing it. "You only bought that because you know I can't drive it" and I said I'd teach him and I did. Parts of metro Vancouver/Burnaby/North Vanc.have very hilly streets, similar to San Fran. Well that was fun teaching him..he'd be watching the streetlights a block or two ahead so he could time it to get through and avoid stopping on a red on a hill LOL.. if he timed it wrong,, he'd make a right turn wherever to keep going. Anyways long story short, he got the hang of it and ended up buying a standard Datsun pickup. Me, my back got worse and when the Volvo went that was my last stick shift,, but I still and always will have a bike to shift.
Fast forward to last week, our neighbor has a little Jeep CJ standard and he asked her if he could drive it. Its been about 20 years since he last drove a stick, but he just lit up driving that thing around the neighborhood while we sat on our front porch having cocktails .. So today as a matter of fact we went looking for a used Jeep Wrangler for a summer fun toy and found one, he gets it hopefully on Thursday.. We looked at a couple of other jeeps but they were automatics,, can't have that. So with this Jeep coming that effectively ends my hope of getting my boat tail Riviera or Electra.. but I'm good with it. Unless of course one shows up dirt cheap and in good condition LOL.

 

[askolover]

I've been shifting gears since I was 16 and I'm 48 now.  Oh sure I've had automatics too but usually at least one stick in the fleet...two times I had two in my fleet.  I've never driven a three on the tree.  My dad used to drive my grandfather's old GMC and I'd watch him but by the time I was ready to learn to drive they were just few and far between around here.  My first shifting experience was in a 1984 VW rabbit.  It was at the car lot up the street.  We went to test drive it and he pulled over on a non-busy road and let me have it.  I did just fine.  And I was hooked.  So my first new car was a 5sp.  My mother couldn't drive it so I taught her just in case she ever had to drive it in an emergency.  I enjoy driving them until the interstate gets backed up in Nashville and then I curse them.  Tony can drive them too...but I'm better haha

My manuals were:

1980 VW Rabbit diesel 4sp (get out and push...52hp)

1987 Chevy Nova (aka Toyota Corolla) wish I still had that car as it got 43 mpg

1993 Chevy S10 Tahoe

1995 VW GTI VR6

2001 VW Beetle TDI

 

[dustin92]

I've done it once and haven't had a lot of desire to drive a manual since. My only experience driving a stick was in an old VW Jetta that my dad wanted me to test drive "because it was a good car". I did fine in the parking lot but failed miserably once I was out on the road. I didn't grasp the concept that you need to use the clutch for "all" gear changes, not just starting from a stop.. So I more or less ground the gears down until they fit.. Then after driving for a bit, went to get off at our exit and my dad said to put it in 3rd..(5 speed) to which I promptly shifted into 1st and dumped the clutch.. While doing about 60 miles an hour. My dad almost came off the passenger seat while yelling at me to put in the clutch. I had the rpm's pegged and nearly threw us out of our seats. I continued up the exit ramp, stopped at the stop light and proceeded to stall out 5 or so times.. Dad said to get out and my driving lesson was over! We took the car back to the car lot and I've driven automatics ever since! I could probably manage a manual if I was by myself but I don't want somebody in the car with me, especially the owner of the car! I'm 26 now and I may learn one day, I may not. If not there are plenty of automatic cars available.

 

[ea56]

My most memorable experience driving a stick shift was in the 71’ Ford Maverick that I owned from Nov. 81’ until April 86’ It was a great little simple car with 3 on the tree and a 200 cu in inline six.

Once when I had gone to Santa Rosa on an errand, and on my way home in downtown rush hour traffic I was stopped at a red light, first in line. The light changed and when I started to let my left foot rise off the clutch, the pedal remained on the floor! I was already in 1st gear, so I just gave it the gas and started to move, when the revs sounded right for the upshift to 2nd, I slide the lever up and towards the windshield to 2nd with my foot off the gas, once in gear I gave it the gas again and continued on. I thought, well I need to get home to Petaluma, about 10 miles away, so I just drove it this way, without the clutch all the way home, shifting up and down between all three gears as usual, just without the clutch. And amazingly, since I was familiar with how the engine should sound for each up and down shift, I didn’t even grind the gears once!

The next day I took the car into my mechanic to have the clutch repaired. When I told the guy that I drove all the way home this way, without any problems, he told me it was because I was an experienced stick driver and because I knew how the engine should sound at each shift I was able to accomplish the drive sans clutch without damaging the transmission. And the fix was a simple one, the clutch linkage had just become disconnected, and once reattached it was as good as new.

That little Maverick was the only 3 on the tree car I ever owned, and I loved it! Shifting was easy and very little shifting was required. So simple and dependable and it got 25 mpg too. Plus, if I ever had a dead battery I could easily push start it. Todays cars have so much complicated electronic stuff, that when something goes wrong you are SOL until the tow truck arrives.

Eddie

 

[yogitunes]

for every vehicle I have driven, the transmission gears are syncro-meshed...

the clutch is basically for idle/stop, and pulling out/reverse.....if you wanted from there, just let go the gas, shift and reapply the throttle....smooth shifts all the way out...some call it floating gears

to down shift, you just pull into neutral, a quick rev of the gas, and then shift to the lower gear...

I know, for some I just blew their mind, too much info into operating a vehicle...explains too why some buy a car that self parks!

if you can't parallel park, should YOU have a license?

I also think anyone with a license, should have to drive a MACK truck for one hour, bet you wont dart in front of one, and then slow down...ever again!!!....you know who you are!

 

[wayupnorth]

My Silverado is just like driving a MACK but much nicer. Parking it is not easy with its size and no way would I try to parallel park, even with the beep beep sensors. All my manual transmission vehicles were syncromesh and you could shift without using the clutch if you knew how. We had a 51 Plymouth that was totally non syncromesh as a kid, use clutch or grind.

 

[dartman]

First car was a 42 GPW

Like said, my first car was 42 Ford GPW Jeep. I could drive it a bit but my best friend drove it more. Second car was a 41 1/2 ton military Power Wagon closed cab pickup with a winch. That one was a full non syncros straight cut gears crash box 4 speed with a granny low and 4:88 gears. Top speed was rated at 55 and low in first was 9. You had to double clutch it to shift, put in the clutch, shift to the next gear, let out the clutch for a micro second to manually synchronize the gear speeds, then back in and out to engage the clutch and continue on. It sounds harder then it is writing it out but once you get it it becomes second nature. Downshifting if you were brave was the same, EXCEPT you have to blip the throttle to get it to slide cleanly into the lower gear. Folks who drive large trucks and OLD vehicles should be familiar with the idea. I have always loved cars and trucks so I got used to exactly what it wanted to shift cleanly up or down and I could even upshift without the clutch on a good day. I now prefer a automatic for a daily driver, just a lot less fuss to drive to work and if it's a well made unit less maintenance. I still have third car, a 69 Dart with 318 and 727 automatic that I modified 340 specs as things broke or I found deals on better bigger parts. I put a stage 2 shift kit in it, a 4 bbl carb, 340 exhaust and a positraction 83/4 rear with 3.23 gears. When it was right at WOT it would shift to second at 5500 rpm and bark the tires hard enough on dry pavement to kick it sideways. Was much fun and every mod made me learn how to drive it all over again. I miss my Jeep and my Truck and the Dart is retired in the backyard but at this point I can figure out how drive anything you give me. I now drive a 95 Neon highline coupe because it is easy to fix, fun drive, and gets great mpg compared to the 9 to 12 mpg my last two "cars" got, plus it's not worth anything.

 

[warmsecondrinse]

@ #3

I agree. I grew up halfway between Boston and Plymouth. Most families had 2 cars: a big one to hold the whole family and a small one dad drove to work. The family car was always an automatic and dad's was nearly always a stick.

There was NO public transportation so once you were old enough to start the license process your parents practically dragged you to the Registry (DMV). You passed your test ASAP on the automatic then learned to drive a stick. It was actually rather strange for a guy to have had his license more than a year or so and NOT know how to drive a stick.

Here in NYC it seems very few people know how to drive a stick.

"Hill holder"??? If you're stopped on a hill, don't you just hold the car stationary with the gas and the clutch and leave the brake alone?

Jim

 

[earthling177]

Jim, while that is something that some people like to do to show off, it's not something you want to do.

Doing that makes the clutch wear out waaay faster than normal, and, as more and more cars do not have a clutch anymore, it's getting more and more expensive to maintain, and you already have to change clutch pads at least once or twice every 100,000 miles to begin with.

There are multiple techniques, including stepping on the clutch and brake, you use the heel of your right foot to gently press the accelerator, slowly let the clutch up and when you feel it engaging, release the brake and proceed from there.

But, honestly, even that is completely unnecessary, once you get a good feel for the car you can start on the steepest hills just fine as if it were anywhere else. It's mostly experience, and once you have it, there is no reason to panic.

Also, like Louis mentioned, if you don't have enough experience with a particular car, there is no shame in using the emergency/parking brake either.

As a matter of fact, during the 80's (I don't know if this changed or not), I had friends living in England for their Post-Doc and they told me at that time that the government got tired of people being hit by cars when crossing the street because drivers would get distracted and release the clutch accidentally, putting the car in movement, so the law changed in such a way that one was *required* to engage the parking/emergency brake and put the car in neutral -- police officers would frequently patrol cars stopped waiting for the light and fine them if they saw any brake lights on, signaling the person was stepping on the pedals and did not have the parking brake engaged.

I dunno if people on automatic cars were subjected to the same thing, but I imagine they were probably required to at the very least put the car in Park, I never asked.

 

[ea56]

Hill Holders were first introduced on Studebaker’s

in 1936. When the car is stopped facing uphill the driver depresses the brake and holds it, then depresses the clutch fully and releases the brake and the brake will remain engaged as long as the clutch remains depressed. Then to move forward, the accelerator is depressed while releasing the clutch just as usual and the brake is slowly disengaged as the car begins to move forward and is prevented from rolling back.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill-holder

When I was new driver I taught myself to start out on hills without rolling back and without using the emergency brake in a Volkswagon. It’s really pretty easy once you get the hang of it, and the confidence that you won’t roll back if you coordinated the clutch and brake properly. Basically, you have to release then both perfectly simultaneously to prevent the car from rolling back. And even though it’s possible to hold the car in place using both the clutch and gas, its a real big mistake, your clutch will wear out very quickly this way.

Eddie[this post was last edited: 7/4/2019-02:27]

 

[sudsmaster]

Ralph,

I remember seeing that GMC truck about 20 years ago when I came to visit. It's a classic.

As I dimly recall, I took my driving test in college in Davis with a manual VW squareback that another guy in the dorm lent me. I think I passed. It was a little more challenging for me because I had grown up in SF with no car, so nearly all my driving experience was in a driver's ed class in high school. On automatics.

I have always much preferred stick shifts. But my first car was an automatic. A 12 year old ' 64 Plymouth Valiant. Still have it. Pushbutton tranny.

I do appreciate having an automatic, however, in heavy traffic or when I have a lower limb injury.

Seems to me automatics have improved dramatically over the past decade. Up to 9 speeds, and little to no difference in gas mileage vs a manual. Then there are the dual clutch autos, which offer the fuel efficiency and direct connection of a manual with the freedom from a foot clutch. Don't have one of those.

Currently 2 of my 3 registered and insured rides are manuals, both three on the tree. A '50 Plymouth and a '67 Chevy Van. The auto is a Chrysler 300m. Four speeds, about right for 1999. It's my daily driver, mainly because the other two have restricted collector car insurance. Have some other cars in storage, including a five speed Mitsubishi made '79 Plymouth pickup. Once I fix the motor (it probably needs a new head, they tend to crack and suck oil) I may get that back on the road. Some day.

I am thinking, now that I'm effectively retired, of fixing up the '67 Chevy Van and going on a long vacation with it, camping along the way as much as possible. But it's kind of awkward, mainly because the front suspension is leaf spring and very rough riding. And getting in and out of the thing gets harder every year, LOL.

 

[foraloysius]

Overhere you learn using the parking brake on a hill as the standard method. I can't remember learning to use the clutch and the brake at the same time. Ofcourse you find out later it is possible. But during the exam you're supposed to use the parking brake.

 

[askolover]

I'm good enough to keep from rolling backwards on a hill too in my Bug.  Believe it or not, 269K miles and still on the original clutch!  It's all interstate commuting for me (until the past couple of years that is...now traffic is a little worse).  I'm so used to shifting sometimes I won't even realize I had to down/upshift for a traffic situation until after it's over and done with.  I've been driving the car for so many years I know exactly how it will respond. 

My grandfather, who was an old semi driver, told me how to shift without using the clutch.  I used to do it some but now I just clutch and go.

 

These days when I take my car in for a service or a windshield replacement I have to ask the person taking my keys if he/she can drive a stick. 

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

No actual hands-on training for me, just watching it done, from a school bus, to the elementary school principal's Mazda, to my aunt/uncle's VW Rabbit while Dire Straits 1st album played in the tape deck...

And with my cousin's liking, and training from her parents, her cars took a natural taking to nearly everything having a manual transmission, until further in her marriage when both she and probably her hubby all along having automatics...

My mom drove the neighbor's across the street's Ford Escort with a stick, trying to turn me on to it, just for the neighbor's sister to buy an Escort with one, so her husband couldn't drive it, but then he bought a Honda we saw driving that had a 5-Speed Man.

A couple friends' first cars had sticks, in which one hated it, so he never touched another one, from his second car, onwards, whereas the other one was okay with it, and his was a few cars further down, getting "paid" that car (an Escort) for a remodeling project...

Another friend that I worked with, had all-manual transmission cars, but when he could afford to have two cars, in spite being single, his second somehow had an Automatic and it was his first car with air conditioning but rarely drove, just to buy a THIRD, which was a station wagon, a couple years older than the newer, second car, that, he bought used so I joked he started his own "Ford Escort collectors club" as that's what all these cars were, even owning one before I knew him, he had, before that first one that I rode with him in...

-- Dave