Air Force: It's OK to be an "out" Pagan, Wiccan, or Druid, but not Gay

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hydralique

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I saw this little article today. Evidently the Air Force Academy has set aside an official worship space for those who are Pagan, Wiccan, or Druid. I think this is great, but it boggles my mind that if a gay serviceman or woman comes out he is supposed to be swiftly booted out as being undersirable and not up to military standards. I suppose this is a start, but it's a shame that personal beliefs are only tolerated so long as they don't conflict with the view that only straight people can serve their country.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100201/ap_on_re_us/us_air_force_academy_earth_religion
 
Proving, once again, that what one gets down on their knees to worship is subject to scrutiny, but to different degrees.
 
Ah, yes,

but then, freedom of religion is a protected class in the US. Being gay means you are a valid target for the hatred of the christianists and the republicans. The fact that you are risking your life and health for your country doesn't matter a bit.

Be very interesting to see what Obama has to say tomorrow. At this point, I assume it will be more of the same-old waffle-waffle, fierce advocacy of the eternal when-ever...
Just not now.
 
I'd heard Friday that the Pentagon was going to present this "plan", perhaps it will carry more weight with the hypocrite "R's" if it begins with the military. Probably not, the leopard doesn't change his spots. This ought to be an interesting fight.

On a side-note, does anyone else thing Harold Ford Jr. should be dragged out of town on a rail? What a slimebag - talk about a waffling media whore! He's almost as bad as that Palin creature.
 
Greg,

Goodness - don't you remember Carpet-baggers? That's precisely what he is, just he is going from South to North to run his scam this year.

You can't vote for a Constitutional amendment to strip citizens of their human and civil rights in Dixie and then turn around and pretend to have had a blinding experience which completely changed you on the road to becoming a Yankee...who ever heard of such a thing?
 
"pay no attention to the man behind the curtain", yes this is important gay/men and women have served since they started the military. The budget is out and creating a stir. Maybe Nancy and Harry are finishing up .... shhhh. healthcare. alr2903
 
Greg Google Sen. Bob Corker, he won the former seat held by Harold Ford Jr. Seems Corker was involved with some type of land deal, that turned into a Walmart super center. Corker ran a ad in attack of HF Jr. re: his fashionista wife. alr2903
 
I will ask this again, folks.

Why do all of you think that the Democrats are the friends of gay folks?

They have had OVERWHELMING majorities in the house and senate since 2006. Mr. Obama was elected in 2008.

Yet, now, in 2010, you're all still whining that the Republicans are causing problems. Well,they probably are, but if the D's had the balls to do it, all this would have been changed.

They aren't your friends. Hold them to the fire. And vote for people who ARE your friends. Yes, you have friends in the 'D' camp. But look who was just campaigning against Prop 8 -- CINDY MCCAIN. You have friends everywhere.

Don't trust the democrats. They'll murder you as fast as others would.
 
Hunter . . .

You are right in some respects, but unfortunately during the last election we had Sarah Palin supporting a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, plus many branches of the Republican party have written policies advocating anti-gay legislation. The Democrats have a far better record of talking the talk, but when it comes to walking the walk they're s-l-o-w. I thoroughly resent having to vote for a party that specializes in lip service, but it's more palatable for me than voting for a party that openly lobbies against my civil rights.

I am always thrilled when a Republican such as Cindy McCain publically supports us, but please remember that she's not the congressman in her family, he husband John is, and he still doesn't believe in equality even though his daughter is a lesbian. I was also happy when Vice President Cheney said a few things that were vaguely pro-gay towards the end of his term, but that didn't change the official policies of the Bush administration one bit, even though Mr. Cheney has been credited with being the most powerful and influential vice president in generations. So much for Republicans walking the walk.

The truth of the matter is that we won't have a guarantee of full civil rights until both parties support us, and each voter must reach his own level of comfort. In my case, I don't tend to be a single issue voter, but I have a real problem voting for a candidate or party that clearly doesn't think we deserve equal treatment.
 
My point is...

Neither party walks the walk.

There are individuals that support gay rights. Support them.

Hold EACH party to the wall.

Libertarianism, in my opinion, is the only solution.

My thought, which I believe I have articulated before, is that EVERYONE should have 'civil unions' and 'marriage' should only happen in the church of your choice.
 
Could Everyone PLEASE:

Read the freakin' material? If political issues are going to be discussed here, can't we at least stay abreast of current events?

Today, Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (there is no one more highly placed in our military), testified before a Senate panel that the effect of the present DADT policy is to force people to "lie about who they are in order to defend their fellow citizens." He also told the panel that changing DADT was a "matter of integrity."

Additionally, Defence Secretary Robert Gates announced plans to loosen DADT enforcement in anticipation of the policy's abolition. This from a Bush Administration holdover.

This is being worked on, folks. I know everyone has their knickers in a knot because it didn't happen Jnauary 21, 2009, but there are politics involved, Obama had an enormous amount on his plate, and Congress has to pass new law to make it happen anyway.

As you might expect, Republicans have begun opposing this already, with Senator McCain (Cindy's husband, remember) prominent among them.

But the issue is being worked on. The military itself, at its highest reaches, is ready to make the change. Obama is pushing. If DADT is not abolished soon, it will be because of Republican opposition in Congress, which will not do them any good at the mid-terms coming up. For more reading, there's an Associated Press story at the link:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/02/01/national/w135319S35.DTL
 
Three Amazing Stories Today Alone:

I know the conventional wisdom on things is that Obama doesn't care about DADT, and the military wants to maintain the status quo anyway.

I know the conventional wisdom is that leaders responsible for rushing into Iraq will never be called to account.

I know the conventional wisdom about the Middle East is that Osama bin Laden runs everything, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

But actually, there are stories today about all these things that say there is motion on issues everyone "knows" are intractable:

Here's a front-page New York Times story about the DADT situation:

Top Defense Officials Seek to End ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/us/politics/03military.html?hp
Here's one about former British PM Tony Blair getting ripped a new one by former international development minister Claire Short:

Blair Called a Liar in British Iraq Inquiry

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/world/europe/03britain.html?hp
And here's one about the Saudis working to rein bin Laden in:

Saudi Arabia wants Taliban to expel bin Laden

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/02/02/international/i063534S05.DTL
I hope that everyone who voted for "hope and change" some fourteen months ago will agree that slowly, some change is coming and that there actually is some hope. A President is not a magic machine, able to wave a wand and make everything All Better. There is considerable behind-the-scenes effort going on, here and abroad, to start making this world a better place to live. We don't get to hear about all of it; we shouldn't, because that which is made public may raise premature expectations in a society that is evidently unable to delay gratification for a nanosecond. And while loose lips may no longer sink ships, they do alert bad guys to what's in store for them, giving them lead time for countermeasures.

Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I think we're on the threshold of major changes that will be for the good. Not all of them will come from our own White House, either.
 
Et al.

Saudi Arabia is certainly working in its own best interest here, as they have SIGNIFICANT issues with Al Queda terrorists in the Kingdom (remember, one of the places where queer folks are murdered according to government sanction, as well as people maimed for the smallest crimes). So that is a positive thing. But what does this have to do with USA politics and policies?

As for Ms. Short, didn't she call Mr. Blair a liar in 2003?

And if top defense officials are calling for an end to DADT, what does that have to do with any accomplishment of Mr. Obama?

So I'm a litle puzzled here. None of these things are particularly earth shattering. I know that I am very politically cynical, but I believe you may be reading things in here that aren't.

Hunter
 
Well,

I do admit that Admiral Mullen (spelling?) surprised me this morning.
Certainly, the Democrats have treated us like dirt beneath their feet (except when they need our money/votes).
Unfortunately, the comments by the Rethuglicans this morning have more than made clear that the pigs still regard us as second-class citizens and sub-human.

That, and sadly only that, is the difference between the Democrats and the Rethuglicans.

Oh, and the little fact which made Rahm reach for the Anti-acid a few weeks ago: Teh Gayz donate more than 20% of the Democratic campaign budget.
 
well....

No argument, panthera. However, you will find the same comments from Democraps as Rethuglicans.

Perhaps all of us who want equal treatment for everyone under the law should form a third party. Perhaps we could call it 'Libertarian' ?
 
Hunter:

Here is a brief excerpt from the first NYT referenced in this thread:

"As a participant recounted one of the sessions, Mr. Obama told Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates and Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, that the law was “just wrong.” Mr. Obama told them, the participant said, that he had delayed acting on repeal because the military was stretched in two wars and he did not want another polarizing debate in 2009 to distract from his health care fight.

But in 2010, he told them, this would be a priority. He got no objections."


That's part of what is going on; it's only possible to fight so many battles at once, especially when you have people like Rush, Hannity, etc. spoiling for a public fight on every little thing you might say.

The Claire Short story is significant precisely because she has been calling Blair a liar for some time; the Chilcot Inquiry doesn't believe him either. Her words are carrying far more weight than they did in '03, which I hope means the tide is turning.

Saudi Arabia has never bothered much with bin Laden before, so I can't understand why you don't feel this has significance. The Saudis' motives are probably financial; the unrest in the Middle East have caused grave harm to the area's business concerns. But now they're at least trying to do something instead of nothing, which feels like a gain to me.

None of this is a movie-like Happy Ending, true. And I would agree with you that no one's motives are pure, not Obama, not the Saudis, no one's. But I do think some significant things are happening, or beginning to happen, and I also believe that sticking to yesterday's talking points as a basis for one's world view is not particularly productive. The more we go on about how we're in desperate trouble and nothing can ever possibly change, the more self-fulfilling those words become.

I honestly believe that if the media conspired to run fictitious stories about a miraculous financial turnaround, our stock market would rise, our factories would begin sputtering back to life, and shoppers would return to stores in force. Thinking does make things so, at least sometimes and in some ways. I get a little tired of all the gloom and doom and "everyone's against us" stuff, to be honest. There are, to me, signs that some problems are going to be addressed, maybe not to my complete satisfaction or yours, but at least worked on.
 
Hunter,

It's a toughy. As a teacher, I have serious problems with the black and white approach of many libertarians to society. I just don't see how libertarian politics can't ultimately lead to a tyranny of the majority.
But, yes, I absolutely agree that the current political situation is untenable.

The Rethuglicans are willing to take the Republic down out of spite, the Democrats are cowards. At best.

Goodness, even KVOD is talking about the DADT hearing.
 
Interestingly enough...

We are in somewhat of an agreement. Certainly to truly run a libertarian society, individuals must realize that they are the country, and are responsible for its running.

However, that is true for any republican form of government, and this is where we have lost our way.

I would also say that the Democraps are willing to take the Republic down out of spite as well, and the Republishits are cowards too.

It's funny you should say Libertarians have a black and white approach. I, personally, find that more R/D's have a black and white approach rather than libertarians!

The issue I have with many libertarians is they cling to libertarian principles as an act simply to be thieves and exploiters - rather like demo/repubs do.

Now, as for the media running fictitious stories about finacial situations, etc. ... THEY ARE.

The real unemployment rate is > 20%, something like 30 (I think it is 30) states' unemployment funds are broke, and there is no sign of an economic recovery any time soon. So...this is already happening.

As I said, perhaps I'm simply more cynical.
 
If I didn't know better

one would think that the military is having a hard time meeting its quota in recruiting goals. As a gay man, and a formal Navy sailor, I will tell you that there are many, many compliant, patriotic, young men and women who would like anything but to serve their country. These are interpreters, vital medical personnel, and etc. that this country desperately need their skills. Remember this is now an all voluntary service and probably won't see a draft for quite a while (remember the 60s).
 
Hunter,

That is precisely the problem - whose ox is gored.

Right now, the only thing libertarians (or greens) can do is to kill the election for either the Republicans or the Democrats. After all these years, I seriously doubt we will see any major departure from the two party system in the US. More likely, the small business Republicans will stop voting and big business is already mainly Democrat because they have too many brains to put up with the christianists and traitors running the Republican party today.

It's a culture war. The basic question behind the great experiment was: Is it possible to live and let live? The answer from the current Republicans is: No.

If the libertarians really want to play a role in Colorado politics, they are going to have to walk away from the very insular "I've got mine, screw you" mentality which dominates their groups along the Front Range.

Goodness, what a kick-off to the New Year. The Prop.8 hearing in California showed up what thugs the christianists are. New Jersey and now Hawaii are seeing law suits to attaing human status for us. Now the rethuglicans are forced into a corner by the military. Guess they shouldn't have put quite so much money into contractors and a bit more into arming and protecting the troops.
 
But Pathera, the democrats say the same thing...

The D's won't live and let live either.

And yes, the libs have GOT to walk away from this "I've got mine, screw you!" mentality. It's counter productive.

As for this thread being negative - why? When you see things that exist, that is not negative, it is simply how things are.

I could happily be a Republican if they would dump the christianists AND go back to 'live and let live' and limited government. I could happily be a Democrat if they would give up the idea of state control over every aspect of our lives.

I'd be more likely to get a total eclipse of the sun every day than that.

Until then, keep your powder dry.
 
Expect a wait?

An interesting article on Slate.com yesterday - full integration and acceptance could be a long time in coming.

Things do move slowly to change in the armed services, nearly 30% of women returning from assignments overseas report being sexually assaulted. If we cannot protect and respect female members as equals in the military....

http://www.slate.com/id/2243421/
 
I'd rather FIGHT than switch.

Perhaps all straight men should be mandated to spend 40 hours in a gay bar. They'll get to be on the receiving end (pardon the expression) of getting hit upon, and see what it is like to have unwelcomed advances made. Perhaps if nothing else, they'll get to learn the finess (sp?)and more classy approaches to get their misison accomplished without leaving the "vicitm" feeling or being mauled. If they try to even raise a fist they'll get one right back in such a setting.
 
Women and assault

I spent quite some time working with NATO forces and there were two recurring themes - one funny as all get out, one very troubling.

Very bad under Carter and worse under Ronnie Rayguns was the way female soldiers who had been assaulted were treated. Basically, if their base commander was not so inclined, there was nothing they could do about it. Most base commanders in Germany and Northern Italy, for instance, were not happy with women serving to begin with and quite often turned a deaf ear and a blind eye to what would have been a capital crime against women in the US.

The funny part was watching the soldiers from the Netherlands and the red-nex mucho-machos from the US meet for the first time every three weeks or so on pass.

Tee-hee. It was the same every time. The Dutch wore their hair long and dressed in the style of the late 70's, early 80's - to the yahoos from the hinterlands, they looked like 'fags'.

What those good 'ole boys didn't know but very soon learned was the reason Israel sent their troops to the Netherlands for personal un-armed combat training.

Every three weeks, we'd hear the GI-Joes come in and talk about how many ladies there were going to lay, how much 'brew' they were going to drink and how many Dutch fags they were going to beat the crap out of.

Every third Monday morning, I'd sit silently at a meeting during which the local American commander would ask the local Dutch authorities to please keep their men under control.

Those soldiers, individually, learned their lessons and stopped messing with better soldiers (the Dutch). As a group, the US Army never learned and so we got treated to some very short but sweet take-downs every three weeks.

Yup, there's going to be quite a bit of trouble, just as there was over people of color and women. The christianists and ya-hoo red-nex will cause no end of problems.

That, too, shall pass and in 10 years we'll look back at this as just another example of christianist and rethuglican hatred.
 
I agree with you panthera....

Though we are different politically, Panthera, our goals are similar: a society where people are treated equally and decently.

My only addition would be

'rethuglican and democrap hatred'
 
Hunter,

I'll agree with you on that.
Sadly.
Just, the Democrats hate-ons aren't directed at me, the Rethuglicans are...and that is all the difference in the world, to be honest.
 
Oh I don't know....

I dunno about that Panthera. They simply stab you in the back, rather than spit in your face. The ultimate result is the same, yes? No rights, and a constant plea for more money to 'fight the good fight?'
 
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