American vs. European Detergents - What's the Scoop?

[sparkcymru]

sainsurys meagpearls

well those sainsburys megapearls brought us out in the most horrible skin rash i've seen from a washing powder. Nasty. I Liked the smell of it though but its consigned to the bin. I'm using Ecover new formula which is great and fully biodegradable non harming to fish etc etc. and i can put my hands in it without worry.Much better than the old formula it really cleans whites very well. so doing my bit for the environment.

Environmentally freindly detergants seem to be overlooked in the UK mainly because they dont have Procter & gambles budget to spend on marketing and shelf positioning but i think consumers will increasingly turn to them as they realise the effect on the rivers and aquatic life that products like Ariel, Persil, comfort etc are likely to cause.
Steve

 

[seamusuk]

On New mieles.....

Just press the water plus button - the machine can also be programmed(by the user) to memorise this option and select it automatically when you select the programme!- there are also 4 settings, the default is 2.

1. Increased water level in the rinses
2. Increased water level in the wash and rinse cycles
3. Standard water level but with an extra rinse
4. Increased water level in wash and rinse cycles AND an extra rinse

Seamus

 

[lavamat_jon]

Have to say that I'm with Steve on the new Ecover - I tried it myself as I can't resist any products on the shelf that say New & Improved on them. Rinses down the dispenser completely unlike the last lot of Ecover powder I tried about a year and a half ago, and does clean whites somewhat but can still leave heavily soiled whites dingy, though admittedly most of the stains do get washed out. I have also been using a skin friendly detergent in the UK called Filetti, which is made by Henkel. It seems to be very concentrated too, I have hard water and I only use 100ml (rather than the recommended 275ml for my area), and I got dazzling whites. Rinsed out superbly too.

My mum uses non biological products most of the time (she uses either Persil Non Bio, Ariel Sensitive or Fairy Non Bio - she's using Fairy at the moment) and all three seem to perform similarly, though she always keeps some biological detergent in stock to clean tough whites and that which the non biological detergents can have a tough time with. I've tried switching her to more sensitive powders such as Ecover or Filetti, but she's a fan of bulk buying and likes to buy her detergent in huge boxes (as you've probably all seen in pictures of our utility room). She uses Comfort fabric softener too, but only because I switched to Ecover fabric softener and I'm running down my stock of Comfort downstairs, and once that's all been used up I'll probably use Ecover down there too.

Another great detergent I've been using recently is the Aquados powder capsules - they don't have as much ingredients inside as Ariel, Persil, Bold etc but still do a good job - better than Ecover and about as good as Filetti, and gets white as white as a hefty dose of Persil and Ariel can, and they rinse out superbly too.

I think though in terms of skin problems, as long as the washer is a decent rinser then you shouldn't really have massive skin problems. My sister & dad have said they both have noticed their skin has gotten better since we got the new Miele (the Bosch was awful at rinsing), and I can also use Ariel in my AEG or Miele whereas in the Bosch or the old Hotpoint, if I ever used biological Ariel, or Bold I would itch like hell.

In terms of low water levels - I have to say I've never had a problem with whites and a low water level. In fact I believe that a lower water level cleans better, as there is more tumbling action whereas most of the tumbling action is muffled on the higher water level delicate cycles (which is actually the purpose of the higher water levels on delicates, the tumbling action is muffled to provide as gentle an agitation as possible). Rinsing is another thing though - on most washers a high level rinse is more desirable as low level rinses don't rinse too well especially when compared with half hearted interim spins (like on my nana's Hotpoint). Both mine and my mum's Miele only do 2 or 3 rinses, but fill slightly higher than low level rinses but still a considerable amount less than a deep rinse (although still only to just above the door seal) and spin fast between the rinses and even 2 rinses can rinse out detergents such as Fairy great, leaving no smell - something the Bosch couldn't do with 4 low level rinses! I've found that the 2 rinses haven't been a problem at all with Ecover or Filetti either, I suppose these are designed to rinse out better and the last rinse water is always clear - although still slightly foamy in the last rinse if you use fabric softener as with any washer. This has led me to believe that provided it is done correctly, washing machines *can* rinse well using a small amount of water, but it has to be done correctly otherwise you end up with poor rinsing like with my nana's 2005 Hotpoint-Ariston.

Of course, you still can't beat good old deep level rinses for the drama . But with the ever growing problem with water we're at least experiencing in the UK, with half of the UK in drought conditions, then there does come a point where you have to cut the thread short and economise on resources.

Anyway that's another Jon rant over, take care all

Jon

 

[lavamat_jon]

Miele water levels

Seamus, the higher end Miele models no longer have a programmable water plus button which can be programmed to perform the functions as you described, but have separate Extra Rinse and Water Plus options, so is more user friendly in a way that the operator doesn't have to reprogramme the machine if they want extra water just for one cycle, let's say.

I have to say, that on my machine I haven't been using Water Plus recently and it's still been performing great, whereas for over a year I had water plus on permanently and set to the additional rinse with higher water levels. In fact I'm not sure if it's my imagination, but the 2 standard rinses on the Miele seems to rinse just as well as the 5 sensitive rinses on the AEG.

Jon

 

[lavamat_jon]

Kirk

Unfortunately yes the megaperls have been discontinued - had a look in Sainsbury's the other day and they just have own brand Mcbride powders now. However, they still do the megaperl tabs, softeners, liquids etc, so perhaps they will turn up again in the near future . However if you still want to use a Henkel product, I've been using that Filetti as I mentioned before and although expensive you only need small doses and it cleans great.

Jon

 

[peterh770]

Ledersteinhosenfeld,

It is a Miele 1918. As soon as I got it, I ran one load on the Cotton setting and IMMEDIATELY reprogrammed the Cotton cycle for high water level rinses. As far as I know, that is the only water level adjustment you can program with my machine. Once the clothes were "flushed" with a good amount of water for an extended period of time at a high, constant water temperature, everything worked fine afterward. I haven't seen the need to repeat the performance and to me the machine is operating as it should and giving exceptionally excellent results. Besides, I'm using UK Persil which is designed to work in Euro machines, so everyting is just great!

 

[kirk280980]

Hiya Jon,

Really prefer powder over all else, because one can vary the dosage as needed for each wash and it's easier to use in prewash cycles. That said, once my current supply of Megaperls powder runs out and the time comes to find a suitable replacement, I will be sure to give the tablets a go and see how they compare against other products.

Never thought about trying Filetti, as I assumed it was a gentle, baby-type detergent. I'm guessing it contains bleaching agents and optical brighteners, but no enzymes?

Kirk

 

[quiltnbear]

THANK YOU LAWRENCE

I just thought bio and non bio meant degradable. Your information is most helpful and I thank you for enlightening me. Scott in CA, AKA Quiltnbear

 

[lavamat_jon]

Kirk - I think Filetti is Henkel's equivalent of P&G's Fairy. Delivers better performance than I once imagined and because it is quite concentrated (despite what the dosing recommendations say!) it actually works out quite cheap! It has optical brighteners and bleaching agents, so I think I will still reserve Ecover for coloureds and darks (as cleaning performance isn't as important on these; plus Ecover doesn't have optical brighteners or bleach so is coloursafe) and Filetti for towelling, bedding, whites etc, once I've run my other stocks down. (Still have a 180 wash box of Ariel to get through yet, though! Old formulation stuff too, from before the rebrand!).

Take care,

Jon

 

[maggie~hamilton]

Laundry Detergent and Bluing, and

My all-time favorite laundry detergent is from the Philippines. It is called PRIDE and is =only= available there. I have tracked the product all the way down to the manufacturing plant in the Philippines and have been told it is NOT exported and probably will never be.

I first encountered it when I visited there some years ago. The scent is just absolutely heavenly and it cleans great. I brought several boxes home with me, and every time I hear that friends are going there, or coming here from there, I always beg them to bring me some. You just can't beat it!

Then, does anyone use laundry bluing? I had vaguely remembered it from my childhood and figured it was a long-ago discontinued item, until I saw some on the shelf in the laundry department of my local grocery store. Well, I tried a bottle and have been using it ever since! It works best when you dry your whites on the clothes line, but it also does work in the dryer. The key is to not use so much that your clothes look blue, just just enough to neutralize the yellow and let the subtle blue tone make the whites look even whiter.

AND, speaking of P&G, do y'all remember the rumor that went around a few years ago, even before the Internet, that the company's big-wigs were all Satan worshipers? "Proof" of this came in the form of their logo which is said to include a Satanic horned figure and that infamous number "666." This goes back even to the 1970s. I remember one of the talk shows - Phil Donahue or one of that ilk - having P&G brass appear on the show to debunk the rumor because it had become so widespread. I am surprised it has not surfaced on the Internet with all the other stoopid urgan legends that people pass around.

I have an "expose" book on P&G and it touches on the rumor. The author does debunk it, but does also note that the company's treatment of its employees is nothing short of devilish -- due to greed of course, employees are paid a pittance and often denied legally mandated benefits and generally just treated like crap. The book is a great read. If anyone is interested I'll dig it out and give you the title and call number.

Oh, and there was a similar rumor back in the day with "Faultless" Starch manufactured in Missouri. This rumor stemmed from the fact that the starch container used to carry an inverted pentagram - a satanic symbol - on it. This rumor was also debunked but I have noticed that at some point the symbol was changed. The pentagram is still on the package but it has been reversed to upright position which is, in some kinds of witchcraft and "nature worship" religions, the symbol for Humanity - the top point is the head, then the other four are the hands and feet. With the inverted pentagram, the figure is 'upside down' e.g., the single point (or head) at the bottom with the feet up in the air and is a symbol for "Fallen Man" or Satan. I don't know the reasons for this significance but it has something to do with the upside-down cross which is also a Satanic symbol.

"What a world, what a world"

 

[launderess]

Have several forms of bluing; a bottle of vintage Mrs. Stewart's, bottle of Bluette, and several packets of vintage Reckett's blue (squares of bluing one puts into muslin).

Vintage Mrs. Stewart's looks like ink, and indeed at one time was marketed for use as such. Good thing about it is that it does not contain Prussian blue (salts of iron), thus no odor even when used after a "sour" rise using white vinegar. OTHO it can and will stain if not properly diluted/used.

Both Reckett's Blue and Bluette are true Prussian blues, but prefer Recketts as it is more easily removed in case of over bluing. Just launder the item again,and or use an sour rinse as acids break down this type of blue.

Usually mix bluing together with starch and add to white linens/dress shirts during the starch bath. Gives items a nice ice blue colour.

L.

 

[nickuk]

And so the great detergent debate goes on....

Hi Bryan, I hope you are well.

First, some bad news. UK Persil bio tabs (and colour tabs)are discontinued. They are replaced with gel tabs, which means that you get slightly fewer in a box and they cost you a little more ;-) They arem ok, they clean fine and they still rinse great. They are still phosphated. The scent is different, and strong. I quite like the scent but unfortunately little Luke came out in his usual detergent allergy rash, so I am am now confined to the non bio tabs which thankfully haven't changed HURRAH!

To all you guys Seamus, Kirk etc sad about the demise of the Sainsburys (Henkel) stuff, I'm so with you. A great feel to the product - the closest thing to Ariel Futur powder since that went, superb whitening, excellent economy, one of my fave scents was he bio megaperls - light, fresh, mostly blew away in the breeze. I kind of predicted this, simply because I didn't think they were marketed well enough and also because people just didn't know what they were missing.

I have no experience of bluing but it sounds fun, I don't know if we can get it here in the UK. We can use it in the form of DAZ detergent kinda.

Kirk, the Sainsburys perform tabs have the same scent as regular German Persil powder and Le Chat Perfect French powder. It's a lovely scent in the box and really light and fresh on the clothes. I think the Sainsbury tabs are a great product and they go in the drawer which I think is better than those damn silly nets. They dissolve fine. They are quite sudsy and the only gripe I have with all the Sainsbury / Henkel products is difficult rinsing in my wash conditions. I can't begin to imagine what you might like instead of the megaperls because they're quite unique aren't they

Jon what are Aquados capsules and where do I get them? They sound fun.

Cheers

Nick

 

[brettsomers]

this is the old P&G logo *Maggie* is talking about. i believe that old witchcraft rumour was the primary reason P&G abandoned it. and about bluing, we used to have a cotton uniform at the hotel where i work. it was white with dark trim and i used bluing in the wash and starched the HELL out of it. bluing really does work.

 

[lavamat_jon]

Nick

Aquados is sold in Morrisons (it used to be sold in Asda and Tesco before so I think it must have disappeared off their shelves), and is a detergent rather similar to liquitabs but instead are powder sachets rather than liquid sachets. Was skeptical at first but Dan persuaded me into buying them when I was up in Hartlepool last week, and have to say I do like them a lot. They did suds up a lot in the wash, but by the first rinse there wasn't any suds at all and on the second final rinse (without softener) there wasn't a trace of any detergent residue and the water was clear. Cleaned the towels well too, really brought up the white but most importantly I couldn't smell it on the towels afterwards even after 2 lowish (water just above the door) level rinses. Have been using them on all my wash this week, and have to say that it is my current favourite along with Filetti. They also do a biological version which I bought but haven't opened yet, so I can only really give comments on the non biological version at the moment.

Jon

http://www.aquados.co.uk

 

[lavamat_jon]

Inside the box...

 

[lavamat_jon]

And an Aquados capsule...

Forgot to add that in the box it does have a rather funky vintage smell!

 

[kirk280980]

Jon,

Thanks for the info, will probably add a bag of Filetti onto the order next time I shop just to see what it's like. After a certain point, one more detergent really can't hurt! Ought to follow your lead and run the stash down a bit though, otherwise it gets to the stage where it's impossible to pick out any favourites LOL.

Nick,

Persil tablets have always been excellent IMHO - only reason I never stuck to them as my main detergent is because powder gives more control over dosage, but that thinking may have to change if I can't find a suitable replacement for the Megaperls. Haven't yet tried the new Gel tabs myself, so it's quite reassuring to hear you say that they haven't gone downhill compared to the old ones.

Really miss the old compact powders such as Ariel Ultra/Futur and Persil Micro, and it was during this time that "colour" variants first appeared too. Most brands offered a metal storage tin, to be used with refill bags, and I'm surprised this idea never stuck. And how about the Arielator dispensing ball - such fun!

Probably wishful thinking, but hopefully one day the compacts will return once the manufacturers decide it's time to recycle some old ideas again ).

Kirk

 

[lavamat_jon]

Kirk...

Ought to follow your lead and run the stash down a bit though, otherwise it gets to the stage where it's impossible to pick out any favourites LOL

LOL well I've already run my stash down and I still have a wardrobe full of detergents! But at least it all fits in the wardrobe now and the only detergents kept on top of the machine are those that I'm too lazy to put back in the cupboard. This time last year I had a wardrobe full of detergent, detergent down the side of the washer between the wall and the AEG (where th eMiele now sits), as well as detergents on top of the dryer and the Miele washer!

In terms of compact powders, I actually wouldn't be surprised if we see a return to them as I heard somewhere the other day that there are big plans to reduce on packaging waste, and although tablets do have smaller boxes there are still the wrappers the tablets come in so who knows, maybe sooner rather than later compact powders will creep in again. I've also been wondering with Sainsbury's discontinuing the Megaperls; that seeming as Filetti seems to be getting pushed quite a bit recently (they are now placed more prominently on the shelves, have released a liquid version, have launched a website and have also been advertising in magazines) that perhaps Henkel will launch a UK version of Henkel Persil (under a different name obviously, perhaps "The Cat" to match up with it's name in France, "le Chat") who may include the megaperls format. But then, perhaps that's getting into wishful thinking again!

Jon

 

[chestermikeuk]

Mega Pearls

I managed to get the last boxes on the shelf here, couldnt believe they have stopped it, love the smell and feel of the powder...it runs just like persil did of old from the seventies....only thing different was the old Persil was Cream, does anyone make a cream powder now or is it all "Whitest Whites"

I need some for a photo shoot!!!Cant beat the old stuff...

 

[lavamat_jon]

Mike - only cream powder I can think of is Ecover, though I have noticed that both Ariel Sensitive and Fairy do have a creamy sort of texture to them but nothing like that of the old Persil in the picture you posted.

Jon