And then, people start discovering TSP
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whirlcool
Well-known member
I think he has TSP and STPP confused. Most people seem to. Isn't TSP harsher on clothing than STPP? I know you use TSP to take the gloss off of walls before painting them...
I wouldn't think of adding it to my wash.
I wouldn't think of adding it to my wash.
arbilab
Well-known member
I don't think he has them confused, as STPP was banned earlier.
Does appear that Proctology and Grumble R&D spends all their time on workarounds for what the goobermint took away. Stuff today works WORSE than it used to and why would the companies do that?
I got rid of the crystalline dishwasher deposits with half a cup of vinegar in the first rinse. But I shouldn't HAVE to, the product should do that for me like it used to.
Does appear that Proctology and Grumble R&D spends all their time on workarounds for what the goobermint took away. Stuff today works WORSE than it used to and why would the companies do that?
I got rid of the crystalline dishwasher deposits with half a cup of vinegar in the first rinse. But I shouldn't HAVE to, the product should do that for me like it used to.
The person who wrote this didn't do enough research on this. Yes, the author means TSP that you can find in most hardware stores...
Yes, while TSP may actually boost laundry washing effectiveness, it will also produce a precipitate with hard water - which can redeposit on the laundry and machine innards.
TSP is a good surface cleaner and paint prep, where any precipitate can be rinsed off easily before it hardens. Even so, one must rinse very thoroughly if it's used as a paint prep, because alkaline residue can attack paint. When I use TSP as a paint prep, I do a diluted vinegar rinse before the final rinse, to help to neutralize the TSP.
STPP, of course, is the compound that is most efficacious in laundry applications. It will not form a precipitate with hard water minerals (or mineral laden soiled laundry). Unfortunately it is not available in most hardware stores (none that I've visited, at least) but one can generally find it on-line or at a local chemical supply company.
The author of the article has the right general idea, if one is to ignore his ranting about government regulation, that phosphates may not be the major culprit in water pollution and that government and private industry have both over-reacted to concerns about phosphate pollution. Left out is the fact that human waste contributes substantial amounts of phosphorus to the waste stream, equal to or exceeding that which might be expected from typical use of phosphated laundry and dishwasher detergents. Left also is that phosphorus pollution is not an issue in arid regions, like the American Southwest (which includes most of California). Instead it's nitrogen pollution, in the form of nitrates from raw sewage, for example.
I notice this article is also from the von Mises organization, which is noted for its far right wing/libertarian political stance.
And the author is confused. He claims that TSP was the miracle ingredient in laundry detergents, which it wasn't. It was STPP. I also wonder just how good his results were with adding TSP to the laundry - or if he ever even tried it. It sounds like he made a lot of stuff up just to bash the EPA and environmental regulations in general.[this post was last edited: 11/25/2011-02:35]
TSP is a good surface cleaner and paint prep, where any precipitate can be rinsed off easily before it hardens. Even so, one must rinse very thoroughly if it's used as a paint prep, because alkaline residue can attack paint. When I use TSP as a paint prep, I do a diluted vinegar rinse before the final rinse, to help to neutralize the TSP.
STPP, of course, is the compound that is most efficacious in laundry applications. It will not form a precipitate with hard water minerals (or mineral laden soiled laundry). Unfortunately it is not available in most hardware stores (none that I've visited, at least) but one can generally find it on-line or at a local chemical supply company.
The author of the article has the right general idea, if one is to ignore his ranting about government regulation, that phosphates may not be the major culprit in water pollution and that government and private industry have both over-reacted to concerns about phosphate pollution. Left out is the fact that human waste contributes substantial amounts of phosphorus to the waste stream, equal to or exceeding that which might be expected from typical use of phosphated laundry and dishwasher detergents. Left also is that phosphorus pollution is not an issue in arid regions, like the American Southwest (which includes most of California). Instead it's nitrogen pollution, in the form of nitrates from raw sewage, for example.
I notice this article is also from the von Mises organization, which is noted for its far right wing/libertarian political stance.
And the author is confused. He claims that TSP was the miracle ingredient in laundry detergents, which it wasn't. It was STPP. I also wonder just how good his results were with adding TSP to the laundry - or if he ever even tried it. It sounds like he made a lot of stuff up just to bash the EPA and environmental regulations in general.[this post was last edited: 11/25/2011-02:35]
arbilab
Well-known member
Yeah but you can't outlaw colonic discharge. Or CAN you?
My (required) Botany 102 grad-student professor in 1965 was preaching about STPP. I went along with it and got a well-deserved A in a freshman-flunkout course. In fact, I set the curve for a class of >30. As in, 92 on the final.
But phosphate-think went on to set goobermint policy to this day, as if washing machine discharge were the primary effluent, which it's NOT. Pee and poo are, and both are fertilizers for algae and everything else green.
Wait a tick, I thought green was good? Not when some bureaucrat gets ahold of it.
My (required) Botany 102 grad-student professor in 1965 was preaching about STPP. I went along with it and got a well-deserved A in a freshman-flunkout course. In fact, I set the curve for a class of >30. As in, 92 on the final.
But phosphate-think went on to set goobermint policy to this day, as if washing machine discharge were the primary effluent, which it's NOT. Pee and poo are, and both are fertilizers for algae and everything else green.
Wait a tick, I thought green was good? Not when some bureaucrat gets ahold of it.
Allen is absolutely correct!
I would never use TSP in my washer or dishwasher, it is very caustic! It is similar to sodium carbonate in "base". Put some in your bare palm, add a few drops of water, and PRESTO-feel the heat! That guy Ludwig has some of his facts incorrect. Bring back the sodium tripolyphosphate, and DAMN be the "Greenies"!
I would never use TSP in my washer or dishwasher, it is very caustic! It is similar to sodium carbonate in "base". Put some in your bare palm, add a few drops of water, and PRESTO-feel the heat! That guy Ludwig has some of his facts incorrect. Bring back the sodium tripolyphosphate, and DAMN be the "Greenies"!
Would the "Greenies" complain there are phosphates in carbonated-soda drinks?The phospates for that and other things are mined right here in Eastern Carolinaand most other southern states.And what about all of the phopate wastes that PEOPLE dump out of their bodies everyday?makes whats in laundry and dishwasher detergents--NOTHING.
whirlcool
Well-known member
And let's not forget that the government is still promoting the use of phosphates for agricultural uses. When used it boosts the output of whatever slightly more per acre.
Again--the phosphates used for the agricultural use---mined out here.We need a "reset" law-reset the present R&R to before we had them-we ALL may benefit!
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