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are superior in so many ways it's hard to count the advantages. Some small features not yet mentioned so far in the above comprehensive responses are the mirror-mounted compass, which comes in handy on Adirondack or Rockies back woods adventures at times, and push-button diff-lock 4wd... ditto.

I agree with Hans about oils, while fit & finish generally lacked (with a few exceptions) old full size American pre-gas crunch cars were heavy and over-built with robust mechanicals like the Brooklyn Bridge, with lazy slow turning cast iron engines that would last almost forever if actually taken care of, which the vast majority did not, given the habit of "turning in" your car every 3-4 years, the norm at the time. There's a cab driver who has driven a '56 Cadillac over a million miles on it's completely oginal engine, due to careful maintenance, and there are others. Irv Gordon's P1800 (met him at a Volvo dealer while he was on tour promoting his '66 and we were buying parts for our '67 122S in the early 80s) doesn't really count as he's had several re-builds, but even his Willy's-designed iron 4 cyl B-18 engine has proven remarkably durable. Old cars can also be very reliable, I've had well over 200 cars the oldest being a Model A, several 30s Dodge and Olds, and those Model As and 30s flatheads are extremely trouble free if looked after just a bit.

Premiere/Monaco: the PRV V-6, which was notorious in Volvo form for a variety of issues: finicky about oil changes, cam chain tensioner failure... of course partly it suffered with Volvo-ists in comparison to B21/23 etc, with their generally anvil like durability, and was not that bad if looked after properly. Found in a lot of other vehicles in varying spec (always liked the SM) but with their controversial 90 degree origin sort of compromised from the beginning. Wouldn't mind a survivor 264.
 
A few more things I like about modern cars.........

 

 

1. Automatic climate control!   Set the desired tempature, press *AUTO* and forget it.  Simply sublime!

 

2. Being able to unlock the door, get in, start the car and drive away without ever taking the key (fob) out of my pocket!

 

3. The modern automotive diesel engine.  Smoother, quieter, more responsive, more powerful and cleaner than any pre-80's diesel!

 

Kevin
 
Hydralique, To get automatic a/c on a 2001 Camry here, you needed to to get the XLE. I got this car from a friend who bought it new and maintained it well but he didn't get the XLE! He still insisted that he did buy the second most expensive model that year! I didn't think he was right when he told me that as it's a base CE model but he was right! The Canadian lineup differed from the US lineup. We didn't get the two tone Collectors Edition (!?!) model (see the link below) or the 4cyl XLE or the LE V6. So the base CE model, when ordered with the V6 (something that couldn't be done in the US in 2000-2001) did cost thousands more than the 4cyl LE! And the CE V6 here was probably more expensive than the XLE in the States and had even less standard equipment than the CE you had in the States... When I try to order parts online, I cannot select the correct model, when asked for year, trim level and the type of motor as websites don't list models that weren't available in the States.

 

The picture shows the models that were available in Canada in 2001.

[this post was last edited: 3/6/2014-12:51]

http://www.toyotareference.com/camry/1997-2001
philr++3-6-2014-12-50-52.jpg
 
Scott,

I did have a heated windshield on a 1991 Buick Park Avenue Ultra. That thing never worked! (got the car used in the late nineties). That Electriclear windshield needed a special alternator ( which I had to replace while I owned the car) and I had to replace the cracked windshield too. I had insurance for that so the dealership ordered the correct model for my car that was very expensive! But the control box was located behind the front bumper and completely disintegrated with the 3 large wires coming out of the 140 amps alternator remaining exposed! So after they replaced the windshield, I asked for the price of that control box but it did cost $800! The car was already 12 years old so there was no way I would have considered buying that.
 
Then I guess Ford did a better job than GM with their heated windshield (I think they had them before GM did too). I've seen quite a few cars like mine with the option in junkyards (now, they're gone from junkyards too!) and all seemed to suffer from the same problem, the aluminum casing for of their control box had turned into dust just like mine! Sometimes, a thin film of paint that showed what the box would have looked like remained but the aluminum under it was gone!
 
Phil . . .

I won't go far into the bait and switch tactics that Toyota uses here in the US, but suffice it to say we didn't really get the XLE four cylinder either. Technically it was offered but if you wanted one you would be told: "Yes Toyota builds that but our distributor has a policy of not ordering that combination". This happened both in Texas and California with totally different distributors when my mother ordered her XLE. After the Eagle she wanted a reliable and easy to maintain car and I suggested that the four would be simpler so she initially wanted that. She absolutely insisted on the climate control so ended out with a loaded XLE. I think it stickered for $29,500 in 2000 and she got about $3k off that. Pricey for a Camry but she had started out wanting a BOL Lexus so in her mind it was a deal since the Camry was mostly the same car. It's been worth every penny.
 
I just modified my previous post to show the only models that were available in Canada!  He paid more than that for a base CE model, of course, that was Canadian money... 

 

Now, this is the thing we didn't get either! I guess Toyota was aiming at former 1985 Buick LeSabre or 1996 Roadmaster owners who did collect new cars too!

philr++3-6-2014-12-57-47.jpg
 
firedome . . .

In our Premier the PRV V-6 was almost faultless over 125,000 miles. Didn’t use oil, always started and ran well, didn’t overheat except when the heater hose burst or the radiator failed (plastic tank failed catastrophically late one night in Hollywood). Biggest issue with the powertrain was the damned slushbox with weird overly tall ratios: it constantly upshifted and even a small hit on the accelerator required a downshift, probably one reason the tranny died at 65,000. It would only allow the engine to rev in 3rd, at about 80 the engine was really in its’ powerband and sounded nice but I didn’t like the car enough to risk a big ticket to see how long it would hold 3rd. It was no ball of fire but completely adequate, with a proper manual five-speed would have been a much nicer car.

Regarding 90 degree V-6s, not they’re not ideal but can work OK. The PRV, like the Buick 3.8, started out as an odd-fire engine and like the Buick was then morphed into an even-fire engine via split crankshaft throws. There are lots of stories of why the PRV was 90 degrees rather than 60 as it should have been but none really make sense. In Buick’s case they wanted a cheap alternative to the aluminum 215 V8 and so weren’t about to buy new tooling for a 60 degree engine.

The SM’s Maserati C-114 V-6 is also 90 degrees but should not be confused with the PRV or any other engine. It has its’ own evolutionary limb in Maserati’s engine history and is distinct from even the later Biturbo V-6s; the layout is totally different with the flywheel being on the front of the C-114 and upper timing chains located above the bearing planes rather than at the end of the engine. When Citroen purchased Maserati in ‘68 the SM design had been largely finalized for a couple of years but they didn’t want to use their own resources to design an engine for a limited production car. Maserati provided the solution. Like Buick Maserati didn’t want to spend money for new tooling so a 90 degree engine looked to be a good answer. I once briefly met Guilio Alfieri but thought it would have been rude to ask if they looked at the Buick engine in designing the C-114!

When properly fettled, the C-114 is a good and reliable engine. Jerry Hathaway has seen a 2.7 go 225,000 miles and a 3.0 150,00 and his standards are very, very high. The vast majority of SMs are 2.7, the 3.0 was primarily a Maserati Merak engine but it ended out in most automatic SMs to compensate for the power losses of the crappy Borg-Warner automatic. A few manual 3.0s were produced for North American sale in ‘73 as well. However, the C-114 has no tolerance at all for poor maintenance. It will reward this with a very expensive lesson for the owner, as with the Volvo four vs. the PRV one of the problems here was the overall excellence and anvil-like reliability of the old Citroen DS inline four. It’s very hard to kill a DS engine and many owners, not to mention Citroen dealers, had no idea of how to deal with the C-114.

In terms of automotive progress the Buick 3.8 and C-114 make an interesting pair. For all it’s foibles the C-114 had a lot to recommend it in ‘70: it was very light, breathed well with double overhead cams, had good fuel distribution with the triple Weber two barrel carbs and had a special and sophisticated point style ignition system. It made excellent power and contrary to what people sometimes think about old-school exotic engines it has a very even powerband from low revs. By contrast the Buick was a pig, heavy and gutless, with no real virtues aside from being cheap and low maintenance. Fast forward to the late ‘80s however and GM’s careful development had completely transformed the 3.8: with electronic engine management and computer-driven internal changes the 3.8 had become a smooth, powerful, seriously reliable, durable and easy to maintain engine. Proof that even in the bad years GM still had some very real engineering and development talent.

By contrast C-114 became almost homeless after Peugeot bought Citroen in ‘75 and immediately canceled the SM and forced Maserati into receivership; it wouldn’t do for Citroen to have any glamour models. Maserati continued the C-114 for the Merak through ‘82 but aside from some porting work for the SS model and a Bosch stand-alone electronic distributor did no development on the engine. So it died as it was born, a curious little engine that could work well but could also be a bit challenging to keep that way.  There is a clever guy in Phoenix who has managed to combine a bunch of old GM distributor parts intended for the early odd-fire Buick 3.8 and later HEI ignition to create a Delco distributor that fits the C-114. It isn’t such a technically elegant solution as the OEM dual point, dual condenser and dual coil SEV Marchal distributor but eliminates the unique set of dual points and special cap that each cost about $350, and of course no maintenance ever. Given what GM achieved with the 3.8 it boggles my mind to think what they could have made out of the C-114.
 
My #1 appreciation for modern cars: Crash worthiness.

As someone that has tasted Air-bags, I was so glad they were there as well as Seat belts. Crumple zones, padded dashes.

Some of my other favorites:
Air-conditioning
Heated seats
Cruise control
Auto dimming headlights,
rain sensing windshield wipers
 
Hans

You guessed it!
The 50 Plymouth is the one the fires up the quickest. Two pumps on the accelerator on a cold morning, and holding it down half way while turning the key, and she's on! The other two require a little warming up, but not much. The Plymouth is still cranking on its 6 volt positive ground system with no trouble at all. While there is no P.S..it's no problem as long as the car is moving a little. Completely still, and turning the wheel... well you know!

Phil.
the 76 Grand Prix has its 350. Have to say it has the nicest ride, and is whisper quite. I've had it the longest, and it drives the same way it did when I drove it off the lot. It has paid for itself over and over in reliability over the years. It still has to be smog tested her in Ca but has never failed. Thank for sharing your pics of your folks G.P thy were and are really good cars!
 
Gear shifts that are on the floor

emergency/parking brakes that are lift up and not a pedal next to wheel well on the floor

Ignitions on the column of the steering wheel

Steering wheel mounted cruise control

headlights that automatically turn on for daytime running as well as turn on when it's dusk or dawn for those too stupid or selfish to remember to turn on your headlights.

heated seats

power windows and door locks that are standard on everything but the most basic car

electric rear window defrosters that are fairly std. equipment

If I think of more, I'll add another time.
 
For me, that can be typing this here today thanks to them, the airbags, pre-tensioners and the programmed deforming structure are the greatest things in a modern car (even knowing they are avaliable since a long time ago.)

Think of a huge 18 wheel truck front crashing a Ford Ka at more than 100km/h. I believe in God and that is the only explanation for surviving that horrible crash and several hours trapped UNDER the truck until the rescue cut my car in pieces to take me out of there. Even the engine was in pieces during the crash and i had only minor injuries with the broken glasses and a 1st degree burns and abrasions on my face and chest because of the airbag.

 

An airbag explosion in real life is horrible and only who tried it can really understand what i'm saying. It's much different from what we see on videos and crash-tests and I hope I never "try" an airbag again but, that crash tought me to NEVER seat in a car without airbags. With them is horrible, without them is definitely worse.

Other things I love are the navigation systems, the electronic stability control, ABS, and even being an excellent driver i love the comfort of just pressing a button and crossing my arms to paralel park.

One thing i don't miss at all is the automatic seat belt that had a mechanism over the windows but i believe that another type of automatic seat belt would help reducing the deaths caused by accidents in my country, where most of the drivers simply ignore the belts. I don't rememmber which car I drove in the US that had the belts mounted on the door so one could keep the belt buckled and slide under be belt to enter the car. It was a big sedan (I liked it even hating sedans)

 

Other thing I don't like (which isn't too modern) is the automatic transmission. I like to feel the car and shift the gears when I want to, instead of leting the car decide by itself. That's why i love manual transmission. Anyway, even not liking it, one of my two cars is automatic.

Other thing I like in the Focus is keyless the bumper kick/knee trunk opener, which is very handy when both hands are busy, but I discovered it's a PITA if the transponder and the cell phone are in the same pocket.

 

The driver profile is also very handy. Eventually my father or one of my sisters drive my car an I hate to readjust the seat the steering wheel and the mirrors every time one of them use my car. I even gave my father one of the transponders so he doesn't need to manual readjust his settings.

 

And finally, the smoke filters. I always smoked in my cars and the filters are so efficient that my car still smells like new.

And of course, I love feeling like i'm driving a space ship full of buttons and a huge touchscreen. it even talks (well, it reads text messages) Should I call it KITT?

Oh, and one thing I definitely hated in my car is that Ford made a huge mistake. There are some things that are totally unuseful here in my country like the heated seats or the ski holder, while the A/C is too weak for our weather.
 
I don't care about power windows, locks, steering, or brakes. The radio I don't care about, since there isn't anything good on the stations around here anymore. I do like a CD, Cassette, or even an 8-track player. The only option I like(mainly for long distance driving) is cruise control. The seats in new cars are uncomfortable. The most comfortable car I had, was my 1974 Gran Torino.
 
re: Post# 739688 , Reply# 45

Hard to believe that THAT'S a GM panel:

A "HIGH BEAM" light in the warning light cluster instead of the little blue dot in the top of the Speedometer...

 

And since when did General Motors use "Alternator"--that's Chrysler and Ford; I expected "Generator" or "Gen"...

 

I bet "Brake" is probably "Brakes", too... (That's what a manual for a 1976 Cadillac, I'd recently acquired ironically shows; the "S" at the end, among a few other surprises... "Generator" in AMBER not RED, for instance! And I'm fascinated by STOP ENGINE for the Oil Pressure & Temperature--that's what the lights spell out; sorry I didn't take better notice of that when the one I'm in was started for me; should'a tried out that radio dial that switches from all AM-to-all FM and that Tilt/Telescopic wheel..!)

 

 

-- Dave

daveamkrayoguy-2015012308395800908_1.jpg
 
Dave, as you probably know, GM switched to using alternators in 1963 but it took years before they changed the "Gen" light to "Alternator"!

 

I think my 1974 LeSabre still displayed "Gen". At least, the dashboard in my 1967 Riviera displays "Amperes" and it has an ammeter. The 1966-67 Rivieras are among the very few 1960's GM cars with standard full instrumentation. The Toronado also had gauges instead of idiot lights but it lacked the oil pressure gauge. 

 

My 1965 Wildcat displays "AMP" but has no ammeter, surrounding amp are two idiot lights that come on together, one of which says "GEN" and the other says "BAT"...

 

It also has the idiot lights for the temperature, cold and hot! (I've seen that on newer Toyota Echo and Yaris which also lack a temp gauge but have that cold light...)

 



 

 

 I never had a GM car with the "Stop Engine" light but I know Buick used it in it's 1969-74 big-block-equipped full size cars instead of the "Cold" light that they used until then. This light was wired to a second temperature sensor mounted to one engine head. 

 

 

 

 
 
Thought we were talkin' NEW CARS! But these ARE--Were...

Hey, Phil, thanks for the info... Had no idea that there was any distinctive "feature" when it came to anything "Electrical"...  I mean, Chevy's Corvette has a gauge that reads: "Battery", while there are cars that say "Volts" or "Amps"...  So I thought that this was whatever came to mind to whoever designed instrument panels/lights/gauges, before the 'lighted Battery- or Lightning-shaped international picture-symbol or icon became common...

 

Funny how I've seen everything from the actual words spelled out to abbreviated stuff like "Tank", "Temp", (TEMPER? Really, Temperature, which I would see & knew it was an anabbreviation) "Alt" (which I used to think was ALTITUDE if your car was AIRBORN! But, then I took 'Alternator' for Accelerator', which I mistook as what would be 'Vacuum', and took that as in--you guessed it--your vehicle having/being a Vacuum CLEANER!) "Gen", "Hi Beam" (equating it w/ driving on something like a Balance Beam in Gym Class) and "Oil" I think was self-explanatory & the only thing I'd understood the significance of; this was in my youth--waaaayyyy before I actually learned to drive, picking up more o' what this stuff means along the way...

 

Might I say, the 'Rear Defog' light (when it's on) looks mighty unusual; forgot to mention that...  Maybe the toggle switch just didn't have the room for a simple LED to keep it uniform w/ the surrounding switches there--Buick sure gets mighty fancy, there, don't it?!

 

 

-- Dave

[this post was last edited: 1/24/2015-17:16]
 

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