Another KA Mixer Thread

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rp2813

rp2813

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I was reading the mixer comparisons on the "America's Test Kitchen" web site and they mentioned that Hobart is again making one for home use. It's very pricey at about $1,500 but the interesting part is that Hobart provides power OUTput figures (horsepower) instead of INput (watts). Hobart advises their machine puts out 1/6 HP.

What the testing found is that you can't assume that more input watts means more power output. Some 700-watt models (don't recall the brands offhand) didn't hold up when kneading dough for 15 minutes straight but the 250-watt KA "Classic" model did.

So now that I've gone ahead and purchased a 475-watt KA Professional model under the assumption that it would provide more horsepower, I'm wondering if I'm just spinning my (electic meter's) wheels. Can anyone advise if more watts really does translate into more power output where KA's are concerned?

Also, I've got a tree loaded with oranges and am looking to juice them as they ripen and/or drop. I've gone on line to read what people think about the KA juicer attachment and it's fairly evenly divided between loving it or hating it. Does anyone here use one and if so, can you provide your opinion? I like that I'd only be storing an attachment instead of a whole extra appliance I'd only use once in a while but if it's a pain to use I'll keep looking.

Thanks,
Ralph
 
My Kenwood only has about three speeds, and it is all one really needs. In fact think the Bosch has the same number as well. They are after all mixers, not blenders! Never understood why hand mixers and some stand mixers have serveral speeds including "fold". Folding is best done by hand with a large spoon or spatula.

L.
 
Hey Guys!

Here is what I know about wattage and horsepower from physics, however, if you are an electrician please correct me if I am wrong. Perhaps Toggleswitch can verify this for us.

(One horsepower = 746 watts)

I = Volts
A = Amperage
W = Watts

To find Watts: I / A
To find Amps: I / W
To find Votls: W x A

Example: to find the wattage of a hand mixer operating at 1.2A using 120V, simply divide the voltage (I) by the amperage (A). Therefore 120 volts / 1.2 amps = a 100-watt machine.

Also, with regards to a vacuum cleaner (I am from our sister site-the vacuumland.org) amperage does not accurately indicate cleaning effectiveness. Higher amp motors just use more electricity and tend not to last as long as lower amp motors. Why do you think so many Electrolux model XXX (aka: model 30's) have lasted so long? With vacuum cleaners, air flow is the key to cleaning effectiveness-not necessarily the amps!

Kitchenaid mixers are very nice machines indeed, but don't overlook the Sunbeam MixMaster-right down to the newer Heritage series which sell for about $98-$104 dollars at Walmart. I only wish Sunbeam offered an attachment port like the Kitchenaid. Why they didn't sure beats the heck out of me. My aunt who is an avid baker and superb cook has the lowest model Kithenaid stand mixer (250-watts) and it suits her just fine. I believe that the lower wattage mixer tends to spew or eject less flour/dough from the bowl as it mixes. The Sunbeam MixMaster with it's offset beaters is much easier to add ingredients as compared to a Kitchenaid and my experience has been that the machine rarely if at all spits out anything from the bowl while mixing.

Let me know what you guys think.

Louis
 
Hey Louis, my mom was an avid baker back when she was able, and she had your basic Hobart-made KA which she eventually passed down to my sister (but I just got it back--yay!) and got herself a new "Classic" 250-watt KA and it was all she ever needed. She managed to burn out her Mixmaster from appx 1950 so that's what the Hobart KA replaced.

I agree that adding ingredients is an issue with KA mixers and not everyone thinks the pouring shields are the solution, but it was clear in the "America's Test Kitchen" report that the stationary mixers were not all up to the challenge of kneading dough. Bottom line is that ATK is still recommending KA as the brand of mixer to buy in spite of some perceived and/or real shortcomings. Judging from the fact that the new Hobart home machine pictured above appears to have the same basic design as before, I have to assume that this is a proven mechanism.

Thanks for the electrical lesson and related formulas!

Ralph
 
It's not how big it is, it's

what you do with it that counts.
I often use a Westinghouse from the 1950's. "Only" 140 watts, but the R-I motor (the real thing!) has a starting torque so high, that it is no problem to knead dough or mix 'dusty' things without me and the kitchen being covered in fine, white powder.
The 250 Braun hand mixer I used until I got the KM-3, on the other hand, was great for making a mess.
It's the starting torque and the KB-Zeit (how long the kitchen machine can run under full load before overheating) which make the difference, not the horsepower.
The few times I have used a KA to knead heavy doughs, it did spew dust all over the place...but it also was up to the heavy duty job. I'd never buy a new one, tho'...way overpriced. There are so many in-duh-vi-duals out there who can't cook, but have the newest and greatest gadgets in their kitchen...until the next fad comes along and they toss them out cheap.
 
I think you have to match the mixer to your intended purpose. Most people will get along fine with a good hand mixer for the odd cake mixes, pancake batters and whipped potatoes. A move-up to a Sunbeam stand mixer and you can do larger amounts of those but only a small amount of bread dough without taxing it. The KA Classics a little bit more bread dough or some heavy cookie dough. I think people get into trouble when they try to overwork their machines thinking it will handle more. When you move up to the more powerful mixers usually with a bigger bowl you can handle even larger amounts of dough and cookie dough but the bigger bowls on them now make doing smaller amounts less effective since the ingredients tend to get lost in the bowl.
I was quite surprised reading that article in regards to the Bosch Universal which I have. It said it does a commendable job on bread dough which it does and is the main reason I bought one but the article didn't mention that it only requires one kneading instead of the usual two in order to develop the gluten in the dough, the other reason I bought it. A huge huge plus in my estimation. And a low rating on design? The design is way easier to use than a regular mixer imho and it said nothing about how quiet it is compared to the others. KA and Kenwoods can be quite raucous. Because it's so different from what people are used to in a "mixer" there is a slight learning curve and adaptation. As good as it is though I still use my hand Rival or Sunbeam Mixmaster for smaller stuff though because you can mix with them right in a bowl or the pot.
 
Just my 2 cents

I grew up with Sunbeam. My mom had a 1955 model 11W and mt grandmother a model 5B.
When I bought my first mixer for myself back in 1986 I bought a Sunbeam. I wound up giving that one to my mom when the cord on her 11W went bad, and I found myself a nice model 12C from ebay and mixed happily for about 5 years.
The Sunbeam 12C expired one night in the middle of making my chocolate pound cake. I was very upset, but at the time (late 2001) there was no place around to have the Sunbeam fixed, and the new stuff Sunbeam was offering was all plastic.
So I bought a Kitchenaid UltraPower.
In the 6 years I have had the KA I have grown to like it very much, and there is a difference in the finished product from the Sunbeam. Cakes are better, so are the cookies.
I don't bake as much as I used to. I've made more mashed potatoes with it than anything else.
Last summer I received a Kitchenaid model 4C, something I had always wanted. The 4C is just right, and so much fun to use with that all purpose beater!
 
I've never investigated the potential disconnect between HP and watts, but I am aware that motors in general have what is called a "power factor". The power factor, in simplified explanation, represents how efficient the motor is with regard to the amps it draws from the wall power outlet. A power factor of 1 is what an incandescent light bulb has. In the case of such a bulb, the amps times voltage equals the wattage consumed. Lower power factors are typical of motor loads on AC line power. What this means is that there may be a lot of amps flowing back and forth in the power line, but not as much watts as the amps*volts might otherwise indicate. So if the motor has a power factor, of, say, 0.6, then if it drew 10 amps then it would be actually using .6*110*10 watts, or 660 watts, not 1100 watts.

What is power factor important? Well, you know those vacuum cleaners that tout how many amps they draw? It doesn't signify all that much, because the actual power the vacuum motor can provide depends on the power factor (as well as the brush roll, fan blade design, bag loading, etc). Also, the amps drawn do impact not only your household wiring, but the power company as well. A lot of load with a low power factor means that the power company must provide those amps but won't be fully reimbursed for the cost of providing them, since residential metering is based on watts consumed, not amps drawn. The power company compensates for this by assuming the net power factor for a typical residence, and increasing your bill by an amount relative to that assumed power factor.
 
"there is a difference in the finished product from the Sunbeam. Cakes are better, so are the cookies."

Jeff, thank you for evaluation. I am unclear about your comparison. Are cakes and cookies better from the Sunbeam or the KA? I still have a 45 and a 4. The two machines turn out entirely different cake batter when I used to use them side by side to make pound cakes. I add dry ingredients while the mixer is on 1 and I always use the old white plastic shield/pour spout. My 45 is old enough to have the little upright scraper on one side of the flat paddle. On one side of the paddle, the frame rises about a quarter inch above the cross piece at the top. It must have been a factor in helping throw stuff because the flat paddle has not had that little vertical piece for a long time. Now the flat paddle reminds me of a very bad set of shoulders, rounded and drooping down.

I love the new KA mixer, but if the capacity is not 8 quarts like the smallest commercial mixer used to be, what's the point? Are women getting as obnoxious about size and power as men always have been?
 
Jane looks like she's been doing favors for someone handing out Green Stamps - her kitchen is packed with goodies. I hope she used some to buy a dish-brush, that pitiful GE roll-out dishwasher depends on them to get dishes clean!

I was surprised to see that the Hobart model only had a 5 quart bowl. I would have expected 7 or so.
 
sorry for the confusion in my post...

I finished off a bottle of wine from New Years eve earlier, drinking and posting don't mix(for me anyway)

No pun intended either.

What I meant to say is the KA turns out a much better product than the Sunbeam did. I am not talking subtle differences either, I have been making that chocolate pound cake for over 20 years, and it comes out much better in the KA than the Sunbeam, and the KA does not labor or struggle to mix it either.
 
Sunbeam vs Planetary

Hi Tom and Jeff,

I've found the same thing, particularily when it comes to beating eggwhites.

Eggwhites in the Kenwood foam up quickly, get stiff quickly, but can then take 20 minutes for the sugar to dissolve and even then it rarely ever dissolves completely. The mixture gets stiff by 10 minutes but it usually takes another 10 for it to get glossy.

In the Sunbeam, each stage takes ages, but at the end of 25 minutes or so, the sugar is totally dissolved and there is no grittiness left at all. The downside is by then the mixture is very stiff and the sunbeam needs a hand to keep the bowl turning.

Technically the Meringue from the Sunbeam should be superior but I've been unable to detect any real variance in the baked product.

I tend to use the Sunbeam for biscuits and muffins, anything that is moist but not wet, and the Kenwood for Cakes, cream and anything that is likely to splash. I find it hard to do things like cream in the Sunbeam without it ending up the walls, the splash guard on the Kenwood is a godsend.

Has anyone else found that things dissolve more easily in the Sunbeam?

Regards

Nathan
 
Nathan, I grew up with a Hamilton Beach, but used a Mixmaster for a long time when cooking at the home of friends. I remember having to push the bowl when I started creaming the butter or margarine. Maybe it was something I picked up from my mom, but she spent a lot of time using the rubber spatula on the side of the bowl opposite the beaters, pushing it against the direction in which the bowl was turning. I don't have to do that with the KA, nor would it be possible. I scrape it once after the initial creaming, once before the eggs go in and once after and again after I have added the wet and dry ingredients. After I take the bowl away from the mixer, I plunge the spatula to the bottom of the bowl and lift it up in a folding movement several times to make sure everything is blended. The KitchenAid just seems to be a more continuous process of putting something together than it is with the regular mixers. One big difference between them is making Divinity. With the KA, I cannot pour the syrup into the egg whites with the beater moving. It throws all of the syrup around the top of the bowl so I stop the beater, add a bit of syrup and restart it, repeating until all of the syrup is in the egg whites. With the KA, I can beat the candy until it is ready to be turned out. With the Hamilton Beach, the candy had to be beaten by hand to finish because the motor was not strong enough. Even the 45 KA slows quite a bit when beating candy, but it finishes it beautifully.

When I beat egg whites, I follow the procedure I remember from somewhere; maybe its Julia's or maybe it's in the KA manual. I start the whisk on slow speed to breakup the egg whites and then increase the speed in two more steps up to the highest speed. Sorry that I do not make merengue that much. I think I had my fill when making little merengue shells for a Key Lime filling for one of John and Michael's huge parties. I have never dealt with that much merengue before or since and everything involved, no matter how careful you are, gets super sticky from that mixture. My mother used to make Angel Pie. The shell was merengue, heaped up high on the sides, then baked. Lemon custard was made for the filling and when that was set, the pie was topped with whipped cream. Howcha Magowcha that was about the most elegant dessert I can imagine.
 
Ralph, my mother insisted that I needed a Kitchenaid mixer (K45) in the early seventies although we had a perfectly good Hamilton Beach stand mixer. She said that we'd like it better. Well, she was right. Bless her soul, she also loved attachments, so I even had not only the citrus attachment, but also the ice cream maker, grinder, roto slicer/grater (in aluminum), and recently I was given the pasta roller attachment. Anyway, I have squeezed a lot of oranges and lemons with that attachment. Since the motor is strong, there is no slowing it down like what will happen with a small, citrus juicing appliance. But, what I have found that I like the best for juicing citrus is the juicer attachment for the Cuisinart food processor (I don't think it is still being produced, but used ones are available on ebay). I have the DLC XP, but I think Cuisinart made the citrus squeezer to fit many different size models.
George
 
Oh ye gods and little fishes...

That is a kitchen to die for, even if you do have to pre-wash the dishes before pre-rinsing them for the GE.
Pank! I want Pank!
Thank you Rich!
 
Louis,

These formulas you provided are incorrect.

I = Volts
A = Amperage
W = Watts

To find Watts: I / A
To find Amps: I / W
To find Votls: W x A

The correct forumulas are:

Watts = Amps x Volts
Amps = Watts / Volts
Volts = Watts / Amps

Gary
 
Great info guys. Keven, I've read here before about the power of the Westinghouse and my mom did use HER mom's old Westy from appx 1950 for a brief period before purchasing the Hobart KA. That Westy looks very well used--not really presentable on a kitchen counter--as it sits in the original box from the KA that replaced it down in the basement but it likely still performs like a champ.

George, thanks for the juicer advice. Since I own a 70's Sunbeam food processor I'll probably pursue the KA juicer attachment.

Pete, you are correct about the noise factor with KA's. My new "Professional" model sounds pretty raspy at low speed but when you crank it up to full blast it smooths out to high powered whirring and whining reminiscent of a jet engine! I've read that with use the raspy sound will decrease. It's an entirely different sound from the "Classic" or "Ultra Power" models I've used in the past. The "Professional" also has a "soft start" mechanism that supposedly keeps things from flying. I haven't mixed anything yet that would test that feature but will be interested to see if it's effective.

Louis, speaking of the Sunbeam's lack of an attachment port, I was coincidentally channel surfing last night and came upon an episode of "Mama's Family" during a kitchen scene. I noticed the old Mixmaster complete with juicer attachment on the counter. Was that the only attachment those models accommodated? Is it the newer Sunbeams that have no attachment port at all? From what I saw and now remember, the design of that juicer seemed superior to the KA's attachment.

So now one more thing. I panicked when I noticed that there was no spring on the beater shaft of my "Professional" model. I called KA customer service and the lady on the other end advised that higher watt KA mixers don't have a spring on the beater shaft. Does anyone know why?

Thanks again for all the input thus far.

Ralph
 
Divinity

Tom its funny you mention that, last week the choir director at church had some for us that she had made, it was wonderful. I've never made it before so I asked how, and she related that I needed an "ancient" mixer to do so. She said she has a Sunbeam Mixmaster from about 1970 that she's kept just for making Divinity. She said her husband had bought her a Kitchenaid to replace the Sunbeam, but she is so used to the behavior of the Sunbeam with certain recipes that she keeps it around. One of them is Divinity.
Apparently the divinity is done when the Sunbeam slows to the point of almost stopping...
I'll see about getting her to share the recipe with me.
 
I prefer to use a manual juice squeezer - the type you might see at an outdoor fresh orange juice stand. These are very fast and effective, probably faster than a machine operated rotating juicer. Don't know if there are qualitatitve differences between the two methods, but I suspect the manual squeeze machine might extract a bit more of the essential oils in the peel than a rotary juicer. So the taste might be slightly more bitter.

I have a model 9 Mixmastger with juicer, but I admit I haven't tried the juicing feature as yet. Also have a 6 qt Kitchenaid stand mixer, but don't have the juicing attachment for that.
 
I have a manual juicer, the type that squashes the halved orange over a cone much like the old Juice-O-Mats or what you often see at a juice stand. This type of juicer generally makes only a glass at a time and I find it a slow process. Since I have a sh*tload of oranges to process over the next few weeks I'm thinking a motorized juicer will make things go faster. Rather than find a place to store yet another appliance I wouldn't be using year 'round, I am thinking the KA attachment would be a sensible option from both a storage and price point perspective. Plus, I want to put the new KA through its paces. Target has the KA juice extractor on line for $25. I may swing by a Target store and see if they're the same price there.
 
Smoking mixers...

I had that with my Sunbeam 12C Tom, I was making a chocolate pound cake and the poor mixer couldn't take it! First the motor slowed down, then the smoke from the front grille...I was beside myself!
 
There are manual juicers, and then there are manual juicers.

The short squat manual juicers look cool in a countertop. but they don't have the gearing or leverage that the tall ones have, and they don't work nearly as well. When I use mine, the main work is in washing and cutting up the oranges, and disposing of the rinds. I guess one's arm could get tired after a while.

I'll have to do a one-on-one standoff between the Mixmaster juicer and the manual juicer. More to follow...
 
PS-The ultimate orange juicer would be one of those automated machines that one might see in a produce market (like Monterey Market in Berkeley). The staff simply loads a carton of oranges in the top bin, and it automatically selects, halves, and juices oranges until someone makes it stop or it runs out of oranges.

I have a Midknight Valencia juice orange tree in my backyard. It gives a fair crop of fruit, but the flavor isn't always as tasty as I'd like. Perhaps that's partly because it's shaded by an out of control Bearrs lime tree - which I'm thinking of removing and putting a dwarf version in its place. It recently did its usual number, bearing so many limes that the weight broke a major branch. It's unpleasant to prune, as well, because of the occasional big thorns.

Right now it's carpeted the garden with fallen limes... it produces far more than I could ever use. Can't even give them away.
 

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