I don't believe in personal attacks or name-calling when I encounter a Gay person who is a conservative and/or a member of the other party, but I am puzzled about aligning oneself with those who vilify us for financial gain and seek to deprive us of basic human rights. I will refute what they say and used to ask them why they hold the tenets they espouse, but I learned long ago that the explanations boiled down to variations on racial or other types of superiority and/or greed, made difficult to state because the owner's sense of shame about admitting those feelings and difficult to understand because of the obfuscating verbage meant to hide such distasteful feelings. Time is too short and my energy too limited to argue these basic points of decency. If there is any lesson to be learned from being gay or anything out of the mainstream, it is that not one of us has a choice about the circumstances surrounding our birth into life in this world. We did not have any input about the type of body in which our soul would dwell, nor the family unit or lack thereof, nor wealth, nor location, nothing. What we have, we should be thankful for and use whatever it is we have to help those who are less fortunate. This does not mean income redistribution, nor does it mean giving away everything you love; just a realization that blessings flow through us, not to us. That's the difference between the Sea of Galilee and the Dead Sea. The Sea of Galilee has an outlet. The Dead Sea does not.
Another Rethuglican and Sex
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Oh, well written, Tom!
It's no secret that racism is what led to the major split in our group several years ago. I don't mind one bit that the supporters of Austin attack me for that, I'd rather eat glass shards than share their belief that their skin color makes them better somehow than other human beings.
There is an excellent letter, really critical of the Democrats in New York State's Senate over at Pam's House Blend. Well worth reading.
It's no secret that racism is what led to the major split in our group several years ago. I don't mind one bit that the supporters of Austin attack me for that, I'd rather eat glass shards than share their belief that their skin color makes them better somehow than other human beings.
There is an excellent letter, really critical of the Democrats in New York State's Senate over at Pam's House Blend. Well worth reading.
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www.pamshouseblend.com
Now I have a question.
I have a question.
I do understand that the American Republican Party, or at least, a segment of it, villifies gay folks and paints them as (literally) the antichrist. well, some members of it do.
But how exactly does the Democrat party support gay folks?
I'm NOT making baiting comments.
To me, it is individuals with courage who push forward things like gay marriage, domestic partnerships, support for equal treatment under the law, etc. But I see an awful lot of the bad laws, such as the defence of marriage act and don't ask don't tell coming from Democrat administrations. So I'm puzzled.
I'm NOT saying do not support the people who support you. What I AM saying is "do not make a knee jerk assumption that those on the 'D' side are your friends because they aren't."
I think that it is very easy to blind yourself to who your friends are, when you make knee jerk assumptions. Panther's posting of the link to the letter regarding gay marriage ... it is a good letter. Unfortunately the folks he wrote it to will just say 'so what, he has nowhere else to go.' Perhaps if half the country voted libertarian, we could get genuine, real, positive change.
Hunter
I have a question.
I do understand that the American Republican Party, or at least, a segment of it, villifies gay folks and paints them as (literally) the antichrist. well, some members of it do.
But how exactly does the Democrat party support gay folks?
I'm NOT making baiting comments.
To me, it is individuals with courage who push forward things like gay marriage, domestic partnerships, support for equal treatment under the law, etc. But I see an awful lot of the bad laws, such as the defence of marriage act and don't ask don't tell coming from Democrat administrations. So I'm puzzled.
I'm NOT saying do not support the people who support you. What I AM saying is "do not make a knee jerk assumption that those on the 'D' side are your friends because they aren't."
I think that it is very easy to blind yourself to who your friends are, when you make knee jerk assumptions. Panther's posting of the link to the letter regarding gay marriage ... it is a good letter. Unfortunately the folks he wrote it to will just say 'so what, he has nowhere else to go.' Perhaps if half the country voted libertarian, we could get genuine, real, positive change.
Hunter
Good question
As best I can tell, the choice is between the a Republican party which has swung so far to the right (Hunter, look at the referenda they've supported in Colorado lately!) and a Democratic party which is, at best, committed to not slaughtering the goose which lays the golden egg.
And that is all we have going for us with them - they know they need our votes and, once the returns from 2010 start coming in and they see just how badly they have been trounced, I expect some genuine action in their lame-duck congress to "assure" our support in 2012.
Basically, that's the difference. The democrats are willing to help us if the benefit for them is greater than the cost. The Republicans are happy to kill, murder and torture us and only regret that they can't yet do it in the USA. They are literally willing to damage America's military readiness and economy to keep us at sub-human status.
DADT and DOMA are two of the most appalling examples of perfidy in the history of the United States. DOMA is unconstitutional, DADT led to the gutting of the US intelligence services and military readiness. It is demonstrated fact that tossing out gay interpreters and translators caused the US to lose readiness in the fight against terrorism, possibly even to the extent that we were not prepared for 9/11.
DADT is inexcusable. DOMA was a compromise to prevent the Republicans from writing our second-class citizen status into the Constitution as an amendment which, at that time, probably would have passed.
Clinton sold us downstream. The alternative was the gallows.
Speaking of which, Uganda has NOT stripped the murder clause from their legislation and it doesn't look like they intend to. This is a direct result, as we now have documented, of Republican and christianist work in that country to make this genocide possible.
That's my take on it - Republicans are nothing but Nazis in waiting at this point in the game. Christianists are hateful monsters straight from the seventh ring of Hell. Any gay man who self-identifies with either is not sailing, but steaming his barge down the river DeNeal at full speed.
As best I can tell, the choice is between the a Republican party which has swung so far to the right (Hunter, look at the referenda they've supported in Colorado lately!) and a Democratic party which is, at best, committed to not slaughtering the goose which lays the golden egg.
And that is all we have going for us with them - they know they need our votes and, once the returns from 2010 start coming in and they see just how badly they have been trounced, I expect some genuine action in their lame-duck congress to "assure" our support in 2012.
Basically, that's the difference. The democrats are willing to help us if the benefit for them is greater than the cost. The Republicans are happy to kill, murder and torture us and only regret that they can't yet do it in the USA. They are literally willing to damage America's military readiness and economy to keep us at sub-human status.
DADT and DOMA are two of the most appalling examples of perfidy in the history of the United States. DOMA is unconstitutional, DADT led to the gutting of the US intelligence services and military readiness. It is demonstrated fact that tossing out gay interpreters and translators caused the US to lose readiness in the fight against terrorism, possibly even to the extent that we were not prepared for 9/11.
DADT is inexcusable. DOMA was a compromise to prevent the Republicans from writing our second-class citizen status into the Constitution as an amendment which, at that time, probably would have passed.
Clinton sold us downstream. The alternative was the gallows.
Speaking of which, Uganda has NOT stripped the murder clause from their legislation and it doesn't look like they intend to. This is a direct result, as we now have documented, of Republican and christianist work in that country to make this genocide possible.
That's my take on it - Republicans are nothing but Nazis in waiting at this point in the game. Christianists are hateful monsters straight from the seventh ring of Hell. Any gay man who self-identifies with either is not sailing, but steaming his barge down the river DeNeal at full speed.
I suppose the biggest difference...
...between us is that I see Republicans as nothing but Nazis and Democrats as nothing but Nazis. So we do agree at least 50 % of the way
Perhaps the biggest failing in the US is that when it comes to human decency versus political expediency, political expediency always wins.
Of course it is little different in other countries either (And I'm NOT talking about the gay thing but just in general).
Maybe some of the rabid homophobia in America is that in general American men are not secure and confident in themselves, so must look for threats to their...sexuality, masculinity, family, etc.? I don't know.
Personally I REALLY don't have any issues with what two or more consenting adults do together. Some things might turn me off, other things I might say 'hmmmm that sounds interesting' and other things perhaps I might be more enthusiastic about. But if someone does something *I* don't want to do SO WHAT? My life is very strange from the point of view of many people but as far as I am concerned, it suits me fine.
And you know, from the point of view of many of you, I'm a "Conservative." I call myself a 'conservative' -- someone who believes in individual freedom, privacy, dignity, and choice. I don't care what others do in their lives, unless, of course, it attempts to deprive me of my life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness. But the EXISTENCE of those who are different from me does NOT do that. If the Republican party could get 'Conservative' correct, they'd never be out of power. Since they can't, they don't deserve to be in power - but of course, nor do the Democrat party.
Hunter
...between us is that I see Republicans as nothing but Nazis and Democrats as nothing but Nazis. So we do agree at least 50 % of the way
Perhaps the biggest failing in the US is that when it comes to human decency versus political expediency, political expediency always wins.
Of course it is little different in other countries either (And I'm NOT talking about the gay thing but just in general).
Maybe some of the rabid homophobia in America is that in general American men are not secure and confident in themselves, so must look for threats to their...sexuality, masculinity, family, etc.? I don't know.
Personally I REALLY don't have any issues with what two or more consenting adults do together. Some things might turn me off, other things I might say 'hmmmm that sounds interesting' and other things perhaps I might be more enthusiastic about. But if someone does something *I* don't want to do SO WHAT? My life is very strange from the point of view of many people but as far as I am concerned, it suits me fine.
And you know, from the point of view of many of you, I'm a "Conservative." I call myself a 'conservative' -- someone who believes in individual freedom, privacy, dignity, and choice. I don't care what others do in their lives, unless, of course, it attempts to deprive me of my life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness. But the EXISTENCE of those who are different from me does NOT do that. If the Republican party could get 'Conservative' correct, they'd never be out of power. Since they can't, they don't deserve to be in power - but of course, nor do the Democrat party.
Hunter
I wish
I could disagree, oh my paws and whiskers how I wish I could. Hunter, the only difference to me, is that the Democrats need gays to win elections.
Otherwise, it's all aimed at low information voters.
Sigh.
I could disagree, oh my paws and whiskers how I wish I could. Hunter, the only difference to me, is that the Democrats need gays to win elections.
Otherwise, it's all aimed at low information voters.
Sigh.
Hunter, I think that if you will compare the platforms of the two parties, you will see differences. As for the laws that came out of one administration or another, it is necessary to remember that no one branch of gevernment nor one party has total control over the resulting legislation passed during a particular president's term or a session of congress. Many attitudes shaped DOMA and DADT and more conservative views prevailed, but there were allies in both parties who were against such draconian legislation. Many Democrats do not support anything for the LGBT community, but more Democrats do than Republicans, so you tend to go with Democrats hoping that if the Democrats control the legislative agenda, there is a better chance of pro-LGBT legislation being worked on and brought to the floor. There is also the possibility that members of the Democratic caucus can educate members and make those who might not support the legislation see why it could be beneficial to their districts to vote for it. When Republican candidates vow to support party platform planks that are specifically anti-Gay, why would people concerned with rights for Gays support them? If a Democrat is running for office and has not voiced support for rights for Gays, maybe the candidate can be educated about the cause. At least the Democrat is not bound to support a discriminatory party platform.
Minorities have had hard fights to win rights from the majority in our country where all white heterosexual men are created equal. Women went through all kinds of villification when fighting for the vote. Many of us are young enough to remember the Civil Rights struggle and are living through the struggle for human rights for LGBT people. It is never about depending on one party, but finding allies anywhere who will help. Most of the time you have to depend on people not the same as you. Blacks had to find Whites in power to help them. Just as we see in having to find help from straight people, the allies with power do not always see the same priorities as the minorities fighting for rights. A lot of education is involved. So is a lot of bargaining and disappointment.
Minorities have had hard fights to win rights from the majority in our country where all white heterosexual men are created equal. Women went through all kinds of villification when fighting for the vote. Many of us are young enough to remember the Civil Rights struggle and are living through the struggle for human rights for LGBT people. It is never about depending on one party, but finding allies anywhere who will help. Most of the time you have to depend on people not the same as you. Blacks had to find Whites in power to help them. Just as we see in having to find help from straight people, the allies with power do not always see the same priorities as the minorities fighting for rights. A lot of education is involved. So is a lot of bargaining and disappointment.
There are some minor differences, yes.
But the biggest similarity is that BOTH parties believe that the American people cannot run their lives; that they should be dictated to by the state in most facets of their lives (though they DO differ in some ways in what they dictate) and that FREEDOM is somehow a bad thing.
Consider:
1. Antidrug laws. It has created a culture of incredible drug abuse.
2. Gun Control laws. Victim disarmament, while criminals always manage to get what they want.
3. Corporate welfare. Both parties do this.
4. Incredible taxation. Fifteen percent of your income goes to social security. Most of us, including me, will have very insecure retirements due to the mismanagement of money in the land. I trust me more than I trust anyone else. I know of a man who left the USA for UK -- because, shockingly enough, the taxes are lower.
5. A governmental system that seems to be racing toward a Brave New World/1984ish society based on total surveilance of the population at all times. Methinks perhaps living deep in the Amazon, with its risks, might be better.
Having said that, I'd still have to choose the USA over anywhere else, and continue the good fight for freedom and dignity of everyone, regardless of race, gender, orientation.
My cynicism is such that I question any 'organization' that offers help any more - mostly because they are looking for foot soldiers for their wars. Not to say that sometimes you don't have to have alliances because you do.
Unfortunately the people in power today, on both sides, have even less integrity than they used to.
Hunter
But the biggest similarity is that BOTH parties believe that the American people cannot run their lives; that they should be dictated to by the state in most facets of their lives (though they DO differ in some ways in what they dictate) and that FREEDOM is somehow a bad thing.
Consider:
1. Antidrug laws. It has created a culture of incredible drug abuse.
2. Gun Control laws. Victim disarmament, while criminals always manage to get what they want.
3. Corporate welfare. Both parties do this.
4. Incredible taxation. Fifteen percent of your income goes to social security. Most of us, including me, will have very insecure retirements due to the mismanagement of money in the land. I trust me more than I trust anyone else. I know of a man who left the USA for UK -- because, shockingly enough, the taxes are lower.
5. A governmental system that seems to be racing toward a Brave New World/1984ish society based on total surveilance of the population at all times. Methinks perhaps living deep in the Amazon, with its risks, might be better.
Having said that, I'd still have to choose the USA over anywhere else, and continue the good fight for freedom and dignity of everyone, regardless of race, gender, orientation.
My cynicism is such that I question any 'organization' that offers help any more - mostly because they are looking for foot soldiers for their wars. Not to say that sometimes you don't have to have alliances because you do.
Unfortunately the people in power today, on both sides, have even less integrity than they used to.
Hunter
Hunter,
You hit the nail on the head. I am NOT saying we do all these things better here in Europe, but here's our response to your list:
1. Antidrug laws. It has created a culture of incredible drug abuse.
Germany and most western European countries no longer prosecute small amounts of maryjane for home use. After some awful deaths in Amsterdam, the Dutch have put magic mushrooms back on the verboten list.
2. Gun Control laws. Victim disarmament, while criminals always manage to get what they want.
Hunting weapons: No hu-hu. Get a license, prove you're not a nut case, the police stop by first and make sure you can store them where kids can't get at them, take a hunter safety course and you can have anything you want for hunting. No auto, no semi-auto, no crossbows EXCEPT if you have a need for self-defence, then you get a time limited license for whatever you need, including some stuff the Americans freak over whenever they're in Europe.
3. Corporate welfare. Both parties do this.
Everybody does it. Same results everywhere: They say: Give us money or we'll take the jobs elsewhere. You give them the money, they take the jobs elsewhere anyway. Rinse, repeat.
4. Incredible taxation. Fifteen percent of your income goes to social security. Most of us, including me, will have very insecure retirements due to the mismanagement of money in the land. I trust me more than I trust anyone else. I know of a man who left the USA for UK -- because, shockingly enough, the taxes are lower.
Well, for our taxes (which are about the same or lower! We get full, universal health care, safe cities (Munich needs something like 1,000 years to equal one weekend in Detroit, alone), outstanding education (free), social net, great transportation and infra-structure, and our telephone and internet and TV is cheaper, too.) Everything works. Lower taxes, but it works. Weird, huh?
5. A governmental system that seems to be racing toward a Brave New World/1984ish society based on total surveilance of the population at all times. Methinks perhaps living deep in the Amazon, with its risks, might be better.
Well, the UK is special here, but otherwise in Western Europe we have more civil rights than the Americans (the blue-rinsed ladies have no idea what they lost thanks to shrub#43, no idea) and the police and courts are responsible for how they treat people in custody. Still, it's a slow drift in the wrong direction everywhere. You'll be there before we are, but we're not far behind.
You hit the nail on the head. I am NOT saying we do all these things better here in Europe, but here's our response to your list:
1. Antidrug laws. It has created a culture of incredible drug abuse.
Germany and most western European countries no longer prosecute small amounts of maryjane for home use. After some awful deaths in Amsterdam, the Dutch have put magic mushrooms back on the verboten list.
2. Gun Control laws. Victim disarmament, while criminals always manage to get what they want.
Hunting weapons: No hu-hu. Get a license, prove you're not a nut case, the police stop by first and make sure you can store them where kids can't get at them, take a hunter safety course and you can have anything you want for hunting. No auto, no semi-auto, no crossbows EXCEPT if you have a need for self-defence, then you get a time limited license for whatever you need, including some stuff the Americans freak over whenever they're in Europe.
3. Corporate welfare. Both parties do this.
Everybody does it. Same results everywhere: They say: Give us money or we'll take the jobs elsewhere. You give them the money, they take the jobs elsewhere anyway. Rinse, repeat.
4. Incredible taxation. Fifteen percent of your income goes to social security. Most of us, including me, will have very insecure retirements due to the mismanagement of money in the land. I trust me more than I trust anyone else. I know of a man who left the USA for UK -- because, shockingly enough, the taxes are lower.
Well, for our taxes (which are about the same or lower! We get full, universal health care, safe cities (Munich needs something like 1,000 years to equal one weekend in Detroit, alone), outstanding education (free), social net, great transportation and infra-structure, and our telephone and internet and TV is cheaper, too.) Everything works. Lower taxes, but it works. Weird, huh?
5. A governmental system that seems to be racing toward a Brave New World/1984ish society based on total surveilance of the population at all times. Methinks perhaps living deep in the Amazon, with its risks, might be better.
Well, the UK is special here, but otherwise in Western Europe we have more civil rights than the Americans (the blue-rinsed ladies have no idea what they lost thanks to shrub#43, no idea) and the police and courts are responsible for how they treat people in custody. Still, it's a slow drift in the wrong direction everywhere. You'll be there before we are, but we're not far behind.
Churchill is my inspiration.
Panthera, Winston is my inspiration. At the darkest time, with France gone, the US non-interventionist, and it looking like only the UK would stand against a terrible tyranny, he refused to give up. I refuse to give up.
BTW what is the big deal for folks about semi auto anyway? One trigger pull, one bullet. Full auto? Why? It's a great way to put yourself in the poor house.
As for taxes, the US supports a huge empire and has tremendous corruption. I suspect that Germany has lower corruption; perhaps other Euro nations have more. No idea.
Hunter
Panthera, Winston is my inspiration. At the darkest time, with France gone, the US non-interventionist, and it looking like only the UK would stand against a terrible tyranny, he refused to give up. I refuse to give up.
BTW what is the big deal for folks about semi auto anyway? One trigger pull, one bullet. Full auto? Why? It's a great way to put yourself in the poor house.
As for taxes, the US supports a huge empire and has tremendous corruption. I suspect that Germany has lower corruption; perhaps other Euro nations have more. No idea.
Hunter
